Hi Josef,

I think you are right it's about harmonics. The sound is symply more open and dynamic, it's a subtle but important change. If I had better speakers than adam a7x I'm sure I would notice even more difference...

I could recall only this link. He even says to record with unbalanced cables.

Technical for Erez - Virus TI with Preamp.

if you are interested i made some sound examples between usb/analog rec and between Sylenth square lead and Virus's.
You can download them for optimal listening. (44100 24 bit)

Virus usb/analog audio example:

shortrec: usb rec/analog rec -- usb rec/analog rec

long rec: analog rec/usb rec


virus example by ZEICHEN TECH on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Cheers

Hi Pier,

I connected the fact the article was obsolete to the fact the virus got obsolete and the zebra now is better because newer.

I think the point is Access's marketing. They sell you the virus as if it's the complete synth. The virus is all you need, capable of any sound in a superb way. But it's not...

Personally the virus is really good for fx, trance sounds (a classic) and some bass.
For leads, pads, and other stuff there is better gear around (even there though it's very versatile).

Even in the case you're looking around for cold, sharp digital signal i wouldn't look for it in a plugin.
For me the nord lead is unbeatable for these kind of sounds and there even is disco dsp (?) plugin that people swear is just like hardware nord lead.
I tried it but defintely preferred and bought the hardware version. Simply sounds better.

The analog emulation in the virus doesn't satisfy me at all actually. Don't want to talk about plugins...
For analog emulation, just screw digital and find the cheapest analog synth around. If you can get analog why analog emulate?

So i am "die hard" virus owner knowing it's not "perfect" as access wants everyone to think.

At the same time though i even know that for certain sounds the virus is the ONLY synth (digital or analog) where to look for them...

I have no stats about sales, i imagine if they raise price it's because there is high demand... what do you think is the reason why they raised price?

WOW! that's amazing - thanks for taking the time to post the examples. It was really helpful. I wouldn't have imagined that the difference were that obvious. I found in "Virus example usb analog out" ie. track2. :- personally I though the first sample sounded better (in the short lines).
the longer samples starting from position 34s the second sample sounded better.
The ones that sounded better were more pristine and clearer.

Thanks for the link Carlo, I'll really enjoy reading through that thread. Really appreciate your help.

Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com

The USB audio (16/44.1) has significantly less fidelity than the analog outs, which are running out of 24/192 converters. My workflow is to compose with the TI plugin, then bounce everything analog (as you would anyway).

Gives it a lot of sparkle and depth, there really is a significant difference.

Also haters gonna hate, really. The Virus is an awesome INSTRUMENT, that is pretty close to my desert island synth. I have all the plugins and a fair bit of analog too, and the Virus def. has a place and a sound in amongst all of that.

Hi Stml, I'm thinking of getting the virus ti snow for to save on cost. Recently, the cease of development for the powercore platform has rendered the Virus Powercore no longer future proof.

My workflow is to bounce/record the powercore virus one instrument at a time. 1st I select a new patch, 2nd I compose a new part then bounce it then repeat with step 1 again.

I've read that the Virus snow has half the polyphony/50% less DSP, besides the physical nobs and keyboard, is that all that's different when comparing snow to ti polar?

I'm basically after the virus ti sounds and would be happy tweaking the module via the bundled plugin.

As long as I get play the exact patches as you get on the full blown TI versions, then I'm sold on the Snow - I don't mind half the polyphony as I'm recording one instrument at a time.

Just wondered if anyone recommend snow over the larger flagship models?

Regards
Josef Horhay
Mixing Engineer
www.acoosticzoo.com

But look who his left hand man is... I think he lied and said so that everybody else can stop buying the Virus. That way he can be the only one making those great sounds!

I think virus snow will be perfect for your tasks.

virus ti is only more powerful and lets you work with more patches at the same time.

but if you use one patch at the time snow is perfect

True , but always remember a lot of the things you can put your cock in and that will make you breakfast will also give you a virus

Anyway got to say value for money wise you really cannot beat Urs Heckmans stuff.

Zebra is amazing and ACE is the best $69 I have ever spent. Im eagerly awaiting the Berlin Modular plugins he's developing. Everyone who hasnt already should really check out the Bazille modular synth alpha, its incredible and is only 1/3 of what is to be included in the Berlin Modular product.

Alchemy is imo one of the best softsynths available. I use it for everything...It doesnt have so many presets all my sounds which are done in alchemy are with the default setting and processed from there to whatever i need. I have now like 200 presets only for alchemy, with MY sounds...

Oh I see, so sound quality has nothing to do with level of programming? Well, that right there shows what you know about this field.

So I guess now price has all to do with the genre of music an instrument is designed for?

Wow, I learn more excellent knowledge on this forum every day. I should come back more often!

You took my post completely out of context. Bravo.

Nice test. I like the sound of the first clip the best. That second last example (labeled as the Virus one) sounds like a person stuck a pair of SM57s in front of two monitors playing back a recording of a synth. - and then recorded in a public bathroom. LOL.

That is NOT what my Virus sounds like in the least bit. Sorry, I am laughing off my ass at how tainted your test example is and likely flawed from the get go.

But unfortunately there are people who will actually think that post is evidence and actually believe you. To them i warn that anyone can figure out the fact that it was a tainted test and if you really want to know what a Virus TI sounds like just go into a music store selling them and ask to listen to it and play it yourself. You will verify foirst hand that this test this member posted is not to be considered 'evidence'.

(First hand corroboration is crucially important in an industry like this and this is why none of these clips can be taken as serious high grade evidence until you hear the units yourself and do your comparisons first hand.)

Who knows, maybe i got lucky and just accidentally got a freak accident of an amazing Virus with one that was programmed for a person who paid a million dollars to the Accewss Virus engineers for a special custom top-secret Virus out of this world - and maybe it got mixed in the wrong batch and got sent to me. Who knows. But it sounds huge to me and I have never heard anything as Hi-Fi as a Virus before at least not as the one I own. Its not even funny how much better it and my Eventide H8000 sounds than everything else in my studio.

But wow, i must say, that was a funny set of clips. The first one actually kind of sounds the most out of all those clips like that signature Virus coloration and character - but it wasn't quite as deep. It sounds like it was a Virus going through m-audio converters and not Virus Control. The last one is pretty nice but does not have the coloration of the virus - hard to explain - go try one out in a store and you will realize it has a 'vibe' like no other.

Why would any one think that? I clearly I used price/quality as logic. You used price/genre logic as I quoted you.

And by the way, I never said the Virus was better than the yamaha you listed as being double the cost. I just said Virus was a very good synth and one with a vibe setting it apart from anything else ever made as very distinct and of a signature color because of the way they were able to add some insane coloration into the programming... its hard to explain. This is why i think the German engineering in the Virus rules because it is Neumann-ish sort of coloration done in digital programming (but a different color).

Anyone who does not buy my statements - i can almost guarantee you were probably monitoring your virus through very bad converters - either that or something was out of whack in your signal chain. I am guaranteeing you it is a very good piece of gear. But I'll still check out the Zebra and give it another fair chance. But I can guarantee you that something can always be said about a good piece of hardware.

An example of this is that I went through this with guitar modeling - i bought every single guitar amp modeler plug-in on the market, as well as all the hardware ones from Line 6 to Boss, etc.. And then finally I got the real deal - The Axe-Fx.

I am not trying to annoy anybody, but i know this wasn't a waste of money and there's something distinct in this box.

the virus is a a digital beast. no doubt

never been interested in it myself.. but i've always been impressed by its sounds

some like to say that it only sounds good because it is layered with effects

i tend to think that i'd rather use my own outboard fx

but i think i remember reading that many of the virus's fx are not only highly programmable but also tied to the sounds you've synthesized in integral, complimentary way

is any of this true?

i think the virus is the most highly rated synth that i've never been interested in

but i do have some interest

this thread has taught me 1 thing.. something that i think will ensure that i sound like an ignorant ass less often... the virus is a whole lot more than a kickass Virtual Analog

synth fanbois may be annoying.. unwavering in their conviction.. but i like them a whole lot more than the "what is better... a virus or a nord" crowd

but to all you VA fanbois.. i say lolerskates and roflberry pwncakes

**** polyphony and double butt **** VA (for now) BRING DA NOISE

OMFG. Read my post again. Carefully. Slowly if necessary. I never said anything about price having anything to do w/ genre. I bolded and underlined the part I was referring to which expressed your general attitude throughout the thread instead of multi-quoting every post you made. I'm not going to re-type everything I said.
Really? Again, re-read my post. You specifically said "the Virus is the terminator OF ALL SYNTHS ON THE MARKET". That would include the Buchla system and Tyros I mentioned. Say what you mean. The part about the Tyros was in response to your earlier posts about a $200 soft-synth being inferior to the Virus simply because it's cheaper. FWIW, I would never buy an arranger like the Tyros because I think they're lame, I was just using it as an example to illustrate my point that "more expensive" does not automatically equal "better".
Again, this is why people are arguing w/ you. You try to state that your totally subjective opinion that the Virus is the best sounding synth is a fact by throwing around all kinds of erroneous info about signal chains, converters, etc., which is completely irrelevant to the fact that liking the sound of one synth over another is nothing more than a matter of personal preference. You try to make it sound as though people are doing something wrong if they prefer another synth to the Virus.

I'm not taking any issue w/ the fact that you love the Virus. I agree w/ you that it's a kick-ass synth, and I love mine too. I'm taking issue w/ the way you convey your opinion as if it's a fact.

I think you are the one not reading carefully.

You said:
If price is what makes the Virus the "best", then by your logic something like a Buchla system should be the "terminator" of all synths because it costs the most (afaik).

To which I replied with a question:

So I guess now price has all to do with the genre of music an instrument is designed for?

Clearly indicating sarcasm because I never EVER used the logic indicating that price has any bearing on genre of music. So please do not twist my posts around to mean things that they never meant in the first place.

My Terminator comment was a reference to style of music - not quality.

I did say what I meant but unfortunately you made it appear to look as if I somehow meant something totally different (whether intentional or not, I simply cannot know) but I will be sportsmanlike and go with the assumption that you totally mis-interpreted my statement.

I meant the "Terminator" of all synths because its the most suitable synth on the planet for my style of music that I am making.
Maybe I took it a little too far previously by saying its the best synth ever as well (but that was before this Terminator post in which I backed off those "best ever" comments, where I told the Zebra advocates - "fine you are right" because I did not want to continue debating it. And so I simply changed the topic by referring instead more to the dark Virus character as most ideal out of all synths for the style of music I am specifically making (and only I would know that regardless since no one else can tell me what the best synth is for my style and i cant tell any one else what the best synth is for their style) - but again, a totally irrelevant topic to the quality discussion which I even granted a possibility that i could be wrong about thinking its the best digital synth. I always grant the possibility that i could be wrong.

So by the Terminator comment, I clearly changed the topic - as I clearly meant that it certainly sounds the most dark in that cold sort of Terminator way as far as its character and programming for my particular style of music. Again, for the record, this comment was NOT a reference to quality - it was a reference to character, vibe, and style of music.

Oh, I know a bit. In any case, I did not say anything about sound quality. I said "the fact that you prefer the Virus sound has nothing to do with programming or DSP".

I can also assure you that in terms of sound quality - that is, measurable quality in terms of harmonic distortion, signal to noise ratio, etc. - the Virus probably loses against modern softsynths, which are what some people would call "too clean and perfect".

Please stop confusing sound quality with personal preferences.

I moved my post into it's own thread, seemed more appropiate: https://gearspace.com/board/electron...ml#post6405497

Forget it. You just seem to want to put words in my mouth. It's obvious based on your comments in various other threads (the studio acoustics and guitar grimoire threads in particular) that it's impossible to reason w/ you. So you're right, everyone who doesn't like the Virus has something wrong w/ their signal chain and their ears, and you win the internet. Adios, I'm done w/ this thread.

That's what I've been trying to state, but he clearly does not read other posts or he doesn't pay enough attention.

Thats too bad you cant even demonstrate where I did that.If you porvide no support for your statements then they are meaningless and unsupported.

Yeah as if that response actually addresses any of the points I made in my last post. I don't think so, nothing but more evasions.

And, wow, you actually have that much time on your hands to look up my other threads i have posted in to find some fault to think that has any bearing on this one? Dude get a life!

You are acting pretty dirty and have to go resorting to other threads which have nothing to do with this thread to make it look like you are actually responding to my post - which in reality - you've done nothing but commit the red-herring fallacy.

Congratulations!

Sure it does. Thats signature programming and algos!

But they lack the same sense of depth and a really neat thickness with alot of definition - which is why others would say softsynths are not as hi-fi. And I find a much bigger signal to noise ration in the TI over any soft synth I have ever tried. As for harmonic distortion, I can't comment.

I bought the Virus for its objectively confirmable hi-fi quality and thick depth. My personal preference also happens to match the need for that.

Oh balls to all this shop talk about what the Virus is and isn't, what it can or can't do and what it is and isn't worth.

Lets post up soundclips. Single mode, double tracked, no external signal processing. Like Alchemy, it has some hella range:

You really don't know where noise comes from, don't you?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_(electronics)

A soft synth has no noise (unless you put it there), and in consequence it doesn't make sense to speak of SNR with plugins. Its artifacts are in the realm of aliasing and the frequency/time domains.

The noise you are hearing comes from the analog part of your audio interface, your monitors, mixer, and the rest of items in your audio signal path which are all electrical components.

What audio interface do you have btw?

There he goes again...

"thick depth" is a subjective impression! I'm sure if you asked the question "how do you think the virus sound?" to people outside the electronic world you'd get very different opinions. A classical music director would probably say "artificial" and would never see the depth you see. Ask your mother how the virus sounds and she's probably say "annoying" (my mother would).

When something is objective you can't have a different answer, ever. 2 + 2 = 4 anywhere, anytime, by anyone.

Mine is not to grime and damn
Mine is just to play and jam
Let us use our Daws, tools and synths
Let us make sounds, noise and music

You obviously know very little about programming, signal processing, or many of the other technical aspects involved with digital synthesizers. There's nothing wrong with that at all, but the fact that you ignore that you ignore this stuff makes it impossible to sustain a thoughtful discussion. Good luck!

I've just put my virus up against a few soft synths (Sytrus and Zebra) and after a good old plink plonk with the softies making some noises, it was a good welcome change to get the warmth of the virus back.

I don't have nothing to gain here as I don't really give that much of a shit which sounds better or worse (it's not like I can't buy the soft synths myself), but in my room (which is treated) the virus sounding better.. as in a more full sounding, less flat and with a smoother more animated movement to the sound. The soft synths struggle to move the sound out from a flat plain between the speakers while the virus sound envelopes you.

It could be down to the quality of the converters I'm using (stop gap Mackie 820i firewire mixer thingy going to PSI A25M monitors) , but having to buy £1000+ converters to bring a soft synth to the same level as the virus is missing the point really isn't it.

As I've said earlier , each to their own.

why are people still engaging with this total idiot/troll?

huh? Certain soft synths that have a greater degree of noise than others. It all has to do with the quality and fine detail of programming code. I dont even think you are aware of this at all.

Take for instance NI massive vs. Omnisphere and vs. Virus. Go compare the two on the same DAW (with Virus on Virus Control mode so there is no conversion going on - essentially making it a soft synth but hardware based but no conversion due to the USB stream) - you will confirm that massive is noiser with poor quality aliasing. Its just lower grade due to low end code programming - period. Thats why they sell if for about a mere $200. Omnisphere and Virus are clearly the cleaner and clearer synths. High Signal to Noise ratio.

And sorry to burst your bubble but camel Audio is not much higher quality either. And if you want evidence of the fact that yes there is a variation in signal to noise ration among soft synths then compare Omnisphere

Then why does the Virus on Virus Control mode sound much cleaner by an obvious degree compared to other soft synths? What, you think I am imagining things? Its objective fact to any human ear that its a very clean sounding synth... this has NOTHING to with what you are talking about because everything is monitored on the same system. LOL

Not if you compared two synths and asked those people to comment. Both their ears hear the same objective thing.

Exactly - which is why such empirical data lies in the programming code of the virus. Code which I have no access to because its top secret. But anyone who says a soft synth like Massive for instance is as clean as the sound of the virus is a total bozo. I have nothing left to say.

I am not going to comment on Zebra until i demo it again.