Several DX7's were used on stage during Madonna's Virgin tour in 1985 (with multiple keyboardists on stage playing them Live). Supposedly meticulous care was taken in developing the patches specifically for the tour. Does anyone know if those patches are available anywhere? I don't own a DX7 but if there was a way to get a hold of the patches I'd run right out, buy one, and start using it as a replacement for my D-50 on my gigs.

Not any closer to the answer, but some interesting stuff from that tour:
https://www.lanphier.net/images/virgin_tour_scrapbook/

the guitarist in a blue suit you see on the Live Aid video was Paul Pesco a session guitarist, and the keyboardist doing a killer solo on that stage was Bill Meyers.

someone on a different forum several years ago, after the exact same thing that I am, for the same reason:
https://forum.vintagesynth.com/viewt...=81342#p760472

My guess is they don't exist anymore, and if they did they would already be easily found on the net

Things didn't get archived back then like they do now. After the tour they probably existed on a few cartridges stuck in a drawer, but as the 1980s moved on and the Emulator II, and especially the D50 and M1 became the standards no one thought much about archiving the patches from a DX7

My thinking as well, but I'm going to dig into a bit all the same. Maybe something will pop up.

Also, "meticulously crafted" DX7 presets often tend to be more like "carefully selected from the DX7 sounds/carts I have, and I *may* have tweaked the odd envelope or modulator amount on a few of them"...

In that video, just sounds like a few brass patches for the main hook from the DX7s. There's an Emulator II on stage, and I couldn't see what the guy playing the bass part was playing - it wasn't a DX7, had a silver back, Memorymoog or something possibly? Maybe there are other videos that show it better...

Where did you hear about the DX7 patches, and who was supposed to have made them, out of interest? Just curious where that original info came from...

From here: Two questions about this video clip:

I had an issue of Keyboard magazine that had an interview with Madonna’s live show (80s) keyboardist who said that for that tour they recreated all the synth sounds from all her previous albums by making custom patches for DX7 as well as for the MKS-80 Super Jupiter. So they were even using the DX7s to play sounds that were originally done on older analog synths.

This means the sound manager for the tour had made an executive decision to standardize on the DX7 and that they used to it recreate all those previous sounds certainly implies a lot of effort went into it, and it's evident when you listen to recordings from that tour because the sounds are awesome.

A lot of money riding on those shows back then, the musicians she had on stage with her were all session musicians and they were playing Live (not triggering sequences) - three keyboardists on stage in that clip, one dressed in blue, one dressed in white, one dressed in black, it wasn't amateur hour by any stretch.

the bass looks like a Moog Source.

https://www.vintagesynth.com/moog/sourc.php

these are just big poly synth sounds, the DX can do great subtractive synth sounds, you just gotta know how to get them :-)

Live kick ass drums, 2 guitars and a live synth bass player contribute wildly to the groove, that's a smoking track, no auto tune and great playing and she had the pipes to pull it off. Great video. I'd like to know who all the players were.

FWIW on the next record True Blue, Patrick Leonard the main sound designer also used an Emulator II, TX816 (8 DX7s in one rack) and a MKS-80 (Jupiter 80 im a rack)

Layering DX7s with Jupiter 8s and samplers was really common in the mid 1980s

If you want the Live Aid videos of "The Cars" Greg Hawkes their keyboard player is using not one but two Jupiter 8s, a DX7 and a Synclavier II as a polyphonic stereo sampler



When I grow up I want that set up

One thing to keep in mind also when you watch live videos from the mid 80s and well into the 1990s is that many many times when you see them playing a DX7 they are really just using it as a MIDI controller

DX7s were everywhere and it was extremely easy to rent one from a local rental house or production company, this fact alone heavily drove the move to rack mounted synths

Thanks - that did cross my mind too.

Yep. If you're getting together a tour rig and getting together sounds for your set list, I doubt they just created from init patches all the sounds they needed. Brass stab for song one? Let's go through the brass patches, oh that one's kinda like what we need, it's a bit too bright, needs to be a bit more stabby, a couple of tweaks and save in patch 1. And so on.

Quite a lot of sounds from that period were reasonably simple analog-style sounds, so it wouldn't be a huge job to assemble a set for the tour. The sounds will still be DX7 patches, so in isolation I wouldn't expect them to be any more awesome than any other DX7 presets - but in the context of the live show, of course, will do the job I'm sure and sound great...

I'm a big Pat Leonard fan actually, that guy is an amazing musician, and songwriter... Madonna has always worked with pretty great people through her career, generally.

All of the personnel are given in the link I provided.

According to the source, this was not the case on the Madonna Virgin tour, they were playing the DX7's on patches they had created specifically for the tour.

So at the end of the day I'd still like to acquire those patches. If I can do that I'll go out and buy a DX7 and use it as a replacement for my D-50.

Madonna (Vocals ; Tambourine)
Paul Pesco (Guitar)
James Harrah (Guitar)
Billy Lanphier (Bass)
Patrick Leonard (Keyboards)
Billy Meyers (Keyboards)
Jonathan P Moffett (Drums)
Michael Perea (Backing Vocals ; Tambourine ; Dancer)
Lyndon B Johnson (Backing Vocals ; Tambourine ; Dancer )

and according to this Patrick Leonard put the band together. He likely did the patches, he was always a great keyboard guy.

and oof.. sugarfoot on drums. well damn no wonder.

http://www.lanphier.net/everybodyfanclub/

Playing Live Aid must have been awesome- 200,000 people in the audience.

Yep, he was Madonna's MD back then, and he'd be the first to tell you he's no expert synth programmer/sound designer, and especially (in this context) FM programmer.

He's a musician, first and foremost, and of course, while he had all the gear and used it, it was for production purposes, not to mess around with sound design. He'd be picking, and possibly tweaking FM presets, in the main, on those machines. He wasn't a synth nerd in the way some of us here are.

From the excellent Sound On Sound interview:
http://www.muzines.co.uk/articles/patrick-leonard/7473

Personally, I wouldn't swap the D50 for a DX7...

The fact is, we don't know who programmed those patches or how they did it.
I will if I find good quality patches for it

You'd get a lot more bang for your buck getting a MODX or Montage. A lot of these patches will be layered and you can do a lot of that on the MODX/Montage.. it's like having a stack of DX-7s.

Sure. This is speculation, based on experience of that time, and some of the people involved. We're just discussing it, the things that were typically done, who was involved, who was likely to have done the work etc, in order to maybe go further in understanding what might have happened, and posting some context, for those interested.

I find some of this stuff interesting. From that interview, and others I've seen, it probably wasn't Leonard programming up DX7 sounds from scratch for the tour, which rules out some avenues.

Post back if you do - I have about 140,000 DX7 patches, and very few of them are really any good. The DX7 phenomena back then was less about how good they sounded, but more about how *different* they sounded from what had gone before, and the features/form factor and technological environment. But, I digress...

You could try asking Bill Meyers, the keyboard player: https://www.billmeyersmusic.com

You seem to be on a mission to derail the DX7 on Madonna's Virgin tour. I'm not sure whether that's cuz you don't like Madonna or don't like the DX7, but either way it doesn't make much sense. Do you really think that if the DX7 was incapable of producing good sounds or otherwise was a piece of crap they would have standardized on it for a tour of that caliber?

I don't. The patches heard on the recordings are excellent. I think it was a very conscious reason they chose to use it. That much money and reputation at stake you don't hire the best session musicians and then chinze out on a Casio SA-51.

No thanks, I'd rather keep things simple, that's one of the reasons I use a D-50, great sounds without the overhead of a bloated operating system.

? No, like I said, I'm interested in this, and synth and preset use in popular music in general (and have done quite some research in this area, including the DX7), which is why I've joined in this conversation. You don't have to agree with my tastes, of course.

And actually, I'm a fan of the early Madonna stuff (such that it is), and many of the people she worked with, if that wasn't clear already.

? Liking Madonna, or the DX7 has nothing really do to with discussing the programming of synth patches for a tour, which is what we're doing.

The DX7 is one of the most popular, and iconic synths in synth history. It was also fashionable - there are all kinds of reasons why it was popular - I hinted at them in my above post.

Perhaps you're not that familiar with the DX7, it's character, or the sound potential of FM. There are many strengths of Yamaha's FM, and many weaknesses too. (Like most synth engines) - it does some things extremely well, and "better" than the analog synths of the time . And it does some things poorly, that the analog synths of the time just do much better.

Fortunately, in a live situation, there is a lot more going on than the quality of the synth patches you're playing. A brass stab from pretty much anything in that context is going to be fine and do the job, for example. It doesn't mean a DX7 brass stab is better than any other keyboard...

I thought we were talking about the live shows, not the recordings? Look, if you're loving the sounds you're hearing, and think they're wonderful, then great. Maybe the DX7 is more your bag than your D50. The DX7 was *the* fashionable synth at that time for sure, and was easily available, inexpensive, easily transportable and reliable, so it was a very popular touring keyboard for those reasons. Your belief that it was chosen solely for the quality of its sounds is also just a guess - which could be true, indeed. If that was the case though, why are they using a Moog for the bass sound, and an MKS-80 (which was presumably being played by one of those DX7s), and Emulator on-stage etc, if the DX7 was the be-all in terms of sounds? Could it be those other instruments were just better for those sounds?

Other than a few of the unquestionably iconic sounds the DX7 did that forever influenced music (E. Bass 1, etc), it's true I was never a massive DX7/Yamaha FM fan at the time (although I do love the Yamaha design language of that time), and while I had a DX7S for some years, I eventually sold it and replaced with FM7 and didn't miss it. I *loved* the keybed on it though, which to this day is still my favourite synth-action keybed.

But in going back an analysing records from back in the day (eg for my blog), I have more of an appreciation for it than I did at the time, and I've certainly dug deep into the patch libraries for it in my research. The DX7 has an important place in pop history for sure, but honestly, I'd guess that if a cartridge of Madonna's '85 tour show patches turned up, it would be interesting, but probably underwhelming (just like SAW's famed DX7 bass patches turned out to be.)

But I get, and share, a fascination for this stuff...

I watched multiple videos on YouTube tonight from Madonnas 1985 "The Virgin Tour"

These were from a Detroit Show released as a home video, multi camera professional shoot. These would be a better representation of the actual tour rather than the Live Aid Show

They don't really have closeups of the keyboard rigs but I can clearly see two DX7's, I also clearly see two Fairlight CMI IIx's, a Minimoog, and some type of Electric Piano, I am pretty sure there is an Emulator II, and there is a rack with a TX816 and I am pretty sure a Roland MKS-80 and a few other bits of kit that might be Lexicon PCM. I pulled them up on my 85 inch TV to try and see

Have to say the Analog Synth parts sound very very 80s digital and seem to be coming from the Fairlight, they certainly don't sound Analog like at all

I don't doubt they used DX7s and TX816s especially for bass parts, but as someone who knows the DX7 and TX816 like the back of my hand I can say with certainty there is a lot more than DX7s in that mix, and there is most definitely a fluttery brassy sound right from the Fairlight library



Will also say that was a pretty killer rig for 1985 and was probably half a million in today's money or more, especially with the two Fairlights, but not all that surprising for the hottest pop tour of the year besides perhaps Michael Jackson

I recall from one of her early tours, some of the bass was played on a Oxford Synthesiser Company OSCar. I remember this since before saw it on stage with Madonna in one of her live show, I didn’t know about the synth. Then I tried finding one and realised that already back then it was rare and expensive.

Again, people trying to discredit it, when the Keyboard magazine source clearly said that they used custom patches on the DX7 to recreate all the sounds from her previous albums.

I do, and I'm not the only one who has noticed it:

https://forum.vintagesynth.com/viewt...p?t=81342#top:

"Moog Source for bass ... DX7's for miles and miles, otherwise"

"the sounds they had on those gigs are awesome"

If I ever do get a hold of those patches and start using them in my gigs I will do recordings and post.

Only from the actual video of her on the actual tour that is clearly not the case. You are aware that music magazines are often wrong right? And that Yamaha was a major advertiser in music magazines.

So you can either believe your own lying eyes or you can whine and moan about how an easily discredited article from some random magazine is the Gospel truth

What's really insane is why they are clearly using an actual electric piano when the EP sound was THE CLASSIC sound of the DX7 in the mid 1980s

If the entire tour was DX7 based why in the hell would they be touring with an EP

I get it you desperately want it to be all DX7, but it's simply not, not by a long shot

But watch the video below the entire show of her 1985 Detroit show and ask yourself why you can clearly see Fairlight CMI IIx, and electric pianos, and why they are using rack Synths that are more than likely being played via MIDI by a DX7

Then ask why there are sounds from her early records made on analog Synths that are most certainly NOT FROM a DX7, and sound very much like a Fairlight

goddamn she was amazing

Piano solo at the end of the video sounds like a Yamaha CP-60.

Yes she was

I am pretty sure it's a CP-70M being used in this configuration which was HEAVILY promoted by Yamaha in 1985, this is the cover to a brochure from that era

But I am not 100% sure

The only keyboards seen on stage on the Live Aid videos are 4 DX7s and a minimoog. If you see something else on stage point out the timestamp and location.
Yes, as were her musicians, very tight band

But the Live Aid set wasn't a part of the Tour it was a one off show

The tour your magazine is talking about was 40 dates im 1985 which was and is a normal schedule for an American tour run

It started on April 10th, 1985 in Seattle and ended on June 11th, 1985

By the time Live Aid happened on July that tour was over and Madonna did what is called a fly in show. They would have flown to the show from wherever and brought very limited gear especially for a festival and a limited set, they would have flown in a synth rack but had zero need to fly in DX7s as they were everywhere and they would have been provided by production or simply borrowed from other artists playing

Attached is a screen shot from the Live Aid video. On the DX7 the audio output from the players perspective is on the back on the far left right above the Mod Wheels

You will notice there is nothing connected to the audio output of the bottom DX, in other angles during the performance you can see there is power and MIDI connected however

So this tells me they are just using it as a MIDI controller as was very very common back then.

As I said earlier in this thread just because you see DX7's on stage in videos from the era doesn't mean they are not just being used as a MIDI controller

In 1985 I was working as a full time stage hand for the Union, I worked every big show I could, including Madonna when she played at Merriweather Post Pavilion in Columbia Maryland. While I don't remember the keyboard rig for her or the opening act (Beastie Boys) I do remember exactly how Synth setups were done on arena tours back then.

Forget about getting those sounds from a single DX7. You can't synthesise Madonna with only 6 operators.

But if you do get the DX7, install SuperMax expansion and then add a TX7 to layer it with. This was the best DX setup I've ever played in terms of sound and patch interchangeability and management.

Excellent spectacular sound if you spend your time making new patches. I sold my DX/TX setup as it started to take too much of my time. I've polished my collection of patches to the point where I stopped making any new sounds. Just sit, play and dream for hours. I've noticed I can reach a similar state while using way less clutter and no patch memory.

I can share some of my DX7 sounds. These have never been published anywhere, so if anyone wants some never-heard before sounds from the internet, help yourself. Just FYI, you need to set the mod wheel to EG bias to take full advantage of what I programmed there. 2 banks of moody jamming sounds, nothing crazy there.

As others have said, it’s unlikely most of those Madonna sounds came straight off a DX7. Midi was common in the 80s and layering was king. Many songs I loved from the 80s that had “really great FM sounds” in them were TX816s or some other layered synths. Analog + digital layering was common. Madonna’s band was known for using MKS-80, an analog rack mounted synth, quite heavily, as well as the TX816.

I’m impressed that you use a D-50 live now. I think moving to a DX7 would be a step backwards. There are some great presets out there for it, but you only get 32 on board, plus 32 in a cartridge, while a D-50 gives you 64 (+ another 64 in a card). Of course, a DX7 and D-50 on a 2 tier stand would look great on stage if you’re in an 80s cover band.

The DX7 lacks effects and has a mono output as well. You’d need to run it through some effects to get the most out of it.

I think a better move nowadays is something like a Yamaha Montage M or MODX+. Both give you a TON of great sounding presets, plus you can create your own if you like, and they’ll run circles around anything from the 80s. If you need DX7 sounds, you can load them into the FM-X engine, and with 8 keyboard controllable parts, you can layer them for TX816 like goodness. Also, if you get the Montage M series, it includes a nice virtual analog engine as well. These are performance keyboards, designed for gigging in mind, with ways to organize performances in live sets so you can easily switch between them between songs. And being multitimbral and having easily selectable scenes, you can easily bring in new sounds for different parts of a song, and use the super knob or an expression pedal to change the sound as you play.