Hi everyone, just returning from holiday
After doing some more research to find the proper model, I could only find these models that supports multi tracks recording:
Tascam Model 16
Soundcraft Signature 12MTK
Presonus StudioLive AR16c

For less than 1000€. Are they the only options that can support what I want to do available on the market with excluding the vintage? Many thanks. Cheers

This means that if I want to buy a Soundcraft Signature 16: https://www.thomann.de/gb/soundcraft...iOjJ9&reload=1

I wouldn't be able to record multiple instruments simultaneously?
I see a majority of artists who seem to work with tables that don't have multi-track recording does that mean they record one track / 1 instrument each time in their DAW?

(1) Correct - Sig 16 gives you two options - record one big stereo mix, or record one stereo instrument at a time.

(2) The artists you refer to might be sending multiple outputs from their mixer via cables to a separate multi-channel interface. Or they might record one track at a time.

You might as well send the stereo output from an analogue mixer to the interface you already own.

The options you listed before seem reasonable. Or consider going down the route of an analogue desk and separate interface and lots of cables!

(1) Correct - Sig 16 gives you two options - record one big stereo mix, or record one stereo instrument at a time.

(2) The artists you refer to might be sending multiple outputs from their mixer via cables to a separate multi-channel interface. Or they might record one track at a time.

You might as well send the stereo output from an analogue mixer to the interface you already own.

The options you listed before seem reasonable. Or consider going down the route of an analogue desk and separate interface and lots of cables!

Excellent, this is very clear.
Well, if I can record one big stereo mix with all my instruments or one stereo instrument at a time, it could be fine. I think it is gonna be my most common way of working. Playing more instruments and keep what is good only. Sometimes, I will need to keep everything, sometimes only one or two instrument.
If I have something interesting with multiple instruments with doing a jam session, I can also record each track separately and re edit then into the DAW the whole song.

Now I am considering two options:
- Soundcraft Signature 12MTK (support multi track recording)
- Soundcraft Signature 16 (doesn't support multi track recording) but it has more channels

The first is better for my budget. Is there a real advantage to have the multi track recording?

Up please
Also, I have found out that for recording without a computer/DAW, I can also use directly my Tascam recorder with the mixer

I went old school and bit the bullet on a old Mackie 8 bus mixer. Its technically 24 channel, but has flip switch, so I can run 48 channels at a time. It has the ability to either run directly out each channel to whatever you record on ( in my case I am using a old Pro Tools Mix Plus system with 2 888's, so 16 channel I/O) as well as out the 8 busses. If I ever need more than 48 channels, I could track down an expander to add another 24( really 48 channels).

This made the most sense to me so that I could color sound as well as leave everything hooked up with regards to gear and Tape I/O. It's flexible so I can use inserts if I want and I get hands on faders and EQ etc....If you really look, they can be had for less than $500.

In a similar situation here.

I know I'm a month late to the thread but something to flag is that the Soundcraft desks aren't supported in the later Mac OS which is such a shame as they'd be my preferred choice!

Did you invest in something already?

They aren't compatible with the latest OS and M chips? Hmm bummer. Did you get something else instead? Except for the Tascam Model 12, 16 etc, I don't see that many full multitrack through USB mixers. Maybe some Behringer but descriptions aren't very clear.

Yeah sadly not - it says they stopped supporting beyond the 2019 MacOS which I found bizarre especially as they are still selling them. One of my friends uses one and it's working fine on his new Mac but it struck me as a gamble going forward.

I spent ages last year trying to find a solution and had tried the Model 12 and hated it. I looked for a while but couldn't find anything at that price point.

A mixer was key for my future plans so I saved up for all year and decided to invest in the SSL Big Six. It's been brilliant so far and lives in an interesting place somewhere between analog & digital.

Hope you get something sorted that suits your setup

The BiG SiX is a significant move up in range, must be pretty cool.

Any things in particular you didn't like in the Model 12? I was kinda looking at the Model 16 as it is one of the few that would tick all the boxes of what I'm looking for. I want to plug an MPC 2500 (8 mono + 1 stereo tracks), S1000 (just the stereo track), a Mac (1 stereo track) just to pull samples easily from HD / internet, and maybe a last stereo track for the occasional synth, bass, guitar or other gear I'd need to sample. So 14 to 16 channels in a form factor that fits on top of a 19" rack.

This setup is away from my main setup and purposefully bare bone to avoid any distraction and focus on laying out music without bells and whistles around. But I need at least a mixer not only to bring all these together, but also to be able to EQ, adjust levels on the fly and get a decent pre mix otherwise it is too much of a mess. Already doing this with a Mackie 1202VLZ4 but to make that setup really complete it will need some multi tracking to either SD or USB (or both) at some point. The goal of this setup is to force commitment and print out music to stems + a stereo mix systematically.

Over the years I have accumulated tens if not hundreds of unfinished tracks because of the ability to always go back and thinking things can always be improved, which is of course true but also a bullet in the foot on the process of completing ideas. Went with an MPC X / Live for a while but this thing is too distracting with options and menu divings + bugs tend to drive me mad on that machine. MPC 2500 / 1000 with JJOS is where I feel the most at home so I need to make that setup productive.

Yess it's cool, I'm v grateful and I'll be paying for it for some time :D

I really hated the M12. It came with loads of noise around 8k so I sent it back and the next arrived in the same condition so was frustrated by the end of it. I also found the routing a bit OTT and it was a battle to get it working for my usage. The positives were that the onboard effects were quite fun. That's just my experience though and I've seen a lot of folks have a great time with that desk so more power to them!

Sounds like you have a good set up. M16 might be a shout but from memory it doesn't have multi-usb output right? I think that's a purely analogue desk.

It does have multi tracking to either internal SD or USB, there's a switch on each track to set it up. As there's no hurry I'll keep looking around, in the meantime the Mackie mixer does the job the get the stereo mix out to a Zoom H5.

What have you done, I'm starting to consider selling my MPC X + Live2 + 8 channel audio interface + 8 channel ADAT preamps to get a BiG SiX…

uh oh!

I'm sorry mate - bad influence on the bank balance! :-)

Before you go wild do a bit of research into the Big Six. It's a great piece of kit but of course does have some limitations eg: only the first 4 channels have the high end pre-amps, beyond that it's line in.

I use a Presonus 1810 with an Digimax D8 connected via ADAT.
D8 has direct outs which Go to my Mackie 1402 Mixer.
Mackie has direct outs which can be recorded into the Presonus 1810 line ins.
Interface has also MIDI I/O.

Mackie ~ 200 €
D8 ~ 100 €
Presonus ~ 200 €

+ Lots of cable

It is very flexible and I can always record Mixer Out without a PC. (Tascam DR05x)

I guess you are referring to channel inserts used as direct outs by inserting the 6.5 jack only half way on the Mackie? Only problem is that it is pre EQ / level and you're limited by the number of channels with inserts. Or just using main out, control room and alt out, which is not ideal either as you lose a lot of routing capabilities.
But it is still possible to track out channels one by one through alt outs yea.

But a mixer like this one with real direct outs would work pretty well with the 8 channel audio interface + 8 channel ADAT preamp yea.

Yes, I usually dont record those direct outs via insert but the option is there if you want to multitrack and EQ in the DAW. Soundcraft Mixer would be also great option. I need the VLZ for Alt Out Routing which goes in to my octatrack for sampling.

Big Six is overkill for me. It is nice we have got options. Also i bought most of my stuff used.

Yea I've been using Alt outs to samplers on these mixers for a long time before switching to a patchbay.

BiG SiX is overkill for me too to be honest, and I tend to not like the feeling of owning a piece of gear that I'm not really using up to its relative full potential. Most reasonable choice, according to the gear I already own, is probably gonna be something like the Soundcraft above with direct outs plugged to the audio interface + ADAT preamps. It's gonna be pretty flexible with all channels routed to the patchbay.

Yes, Im the same. I love the Aux Returns on those old analog mixers. It would feel wrong to sacrifice Stereo Channels on BigSix or Tascam Just to get my cheap effects work.

By some absolute random alignement of the planets, today a client told me his company was looking for a present to offer me as a token of good collaboration last year. So I told him "Well if you ask, there's this mixer I could use…". Short story even shorter, I'm receiving a Soundcraft FX 16 II soon. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

manifested that right here in this gearspace thread!! Nicely done

Hello guys,
Just a follow-up post to let you know that I finally still didn't acquire a mixer. Mostly for a question of timing at this point.

Tascam Model 12 would tick all the boxes of what I need:
- using it with my audio interface
- having all my gears connected
- record all tracks indidivually/separtly into my DAW or master

I am also blocking on this choice, not a big fan of it, looks very digital to me.

Are you aware of any alternative so far ?

Move up to the Tascam Model 16 or Model 24. These two units are fully analog, but you still can record and playback digital through USB directly to your DAW.

Thanks for your help Jags

The Tascam Model series are the only mixers on the market at the moment allowing me what I am trying to achieve?

I believe that there are other mixers out there that can act as a multitrack interface to a DAW via USB. But I don't think there are any others that also allow you to record multitrack to SD card directly in the mixer itself.

Tascam also has their line of "DP" Portastudio recorders in which you can record multitrack within the mixer. But they do not have multitrack USB capabilities to also hook up to a DAW. Although you can export the individual multitrack files that you have recorded in the unit to a DAW if you wish. You can then remix them in your DAW.



TASCAM DP-32SD 32-track Digital Portastudio

Zoom L-12 allows you to record multitrack to SD card directly in the mixer, as well as recording to your DAW computer.

It is also a 14 channel USB interface as well. So it's in the same price range as the Tascam Model 12 but actually has 2 extra channels.

The Tascam has 10, the Zoom has 12. Pluse the extra 2 bus master of course.

The Tascam however can return all its channels via USB from your DAW, where as the Zoom can only return 2 stereo pairs.

So if you wanted to use the Zoom to record in to an Akai MPC One, say, as a class compliant mixer, you could record in 12 channels plus a stereo master. So '14' in. But you could only route back 2 stereo channels from the MPC One via USB, so you couldn't really use it for doing 'remixes' of your recorded channels. So '4' back out.

The Tascam you could use as a class compliant mixer as well to record in to the MPC One and you could return whatever channels you recorded in, back out, for 'remixing'. So while it lacks a couple of channels it has that advantage in that regard.

For 'MPC One', you could substitute 'computer DAW', of course.

Neither mixer allows you to record their FX in to the DAW either, except for on the master bus, though you can obviously monitor with it live as you record in.

I believe that you can record both of these mixers on to the on board SD card, at the same time as you use them to record your multitrack in to your DAW as well.

The Tascam DP 24/32 SD range are not class compliant and do not route audio to computer at all, so you have to export your audio back out for use in a DAW. They only have a pair of unbalanced phonos on the back (apart from 2 x 1/4" balanced for monitors).

There's a lot of overlap between the Zoom L-12 and the Tascam Model 12, and they are both digital mixers/recorders at the end of the day. Depending on your typical use case, one will be better than the other. But for some users, they might need to get both. I'll be getting the Model 12 for quick sync to my grooveboxes via midi even though I can sync quite happily on both my non midi Zoom L-12 and Tascam DP24 using SMPTE/MTC - though you do lose a track in using this method. But there are less wires, less faffing. It looks like a killer little mixer for re-sampling in my MPC One and Korg Electribes. I wouldn't have a use for it otherwise.

The Tascam M12 doesn't have many inputs and there are no discrete Aux returns, but then again the MPC One and Electribe only have stereo outs, leaving a few stereo pairs for things like my Akai S2000 and some analog synths. It will be a very compact and powerful setup. Just another workflow really. And for that type of thing you don't need loads of input channels. Even though the S2000 only has 2 outputs (mine anyway), you can do a few 'passes' and you'll soon fill up the on board 12 tracks on the SD card. At some later stage (when I make a bit of space in my studio) I plan on getting a 'proper' Akai like an S1000/S1100, and the Tascam M12 will be an ideal little sub-mixer for that.

Anyway, I can't think of another direct competitor to the Tascam Model 12 at that price range apart from the Zoom L-12. Then again, depending on your use case, either of these mixers might be less than ideal.

Thanks a lot for your help and inputs here, once again, very helpful

I should now position myself. I have two options:

Analogue mixer:

References I am looking at:
Soundcraft Signature 12 MTK
Soundcraft Signature 16
Soundcraft Signature 22 MTK
Soundcraft FX2
Soundcraft EPM 12
Midas DM16

Some of these models seems to support USB and multi tracks recording (MTK series). Not all includes a power on/off button, I don't think it is an issue thought, but that would mean that you need to have it plug on the computer, you can't switch off the power unless you close your computer or unplug.
I understood that the Midas can be a good choice but that the quality is sometimes not that great, far away from the classical Venice.

Digital mixer:

References I am looking at:
Tascam Model 16
Zoom L-12
StudioLive AR16c: 16
Mackie Onyx 12

The more I research about the topic, the more I start to have an accurate view about the main differences, I suppose.
The advantages of the digital mixer are definitely the versatility, ability to do multi track recording, SD card recording without the need of recording through a computer, you can use an interface audio with it etc.

Back on my main requirements

Simplicity is key for me. I am more into a traditional approach - "hands on" and prefer to stay away from technology/ computer, plugins etc.

- all my gears are plugged in the mixer, ready for a recording session
- I can play all my instruments at once with the mixer as a source, drums, synth, mics...
- Most of the time I will play 1 instrument by 1, ex: focus on a drum machine or a synth, sometimes more at once
- In my creative process, I usually create loops, 1 element by 1
- By playing, if I am satisfy with one of them, or think I have something interesting, I can record one of these channel into the DAW as a track
- I can edit it afterward in the DAW
- I can manage the levels/channel volumes, FX, plug a new instrument
- Record a full track as a master
- Do a liveset

I think I would be ready to give up the idea of recording multi track, i.e all tracks separately to stay on an analogue, simple approach. Maybe it would also structure me in my production/creative process and impose myself to be more demanding with each instrument and composition. I suppose many artists work this way.

What is most important for me is efficiency and ease of use. I don't really want to worry about setting up buttons, digital audio transmission process etc.

If midi is needed, can do with the interface audio.

Currently using: Ableton, Pro Tools
As interface audio: Universal Audio Volt 476 - will upgrade to an RME in the near future

Do you think my view on that is accurate?