Hi everyone,

I am reaching out to you for some help in my home studio configuration. To provide you more context, I am doing some recording and producing music.

Configuration
Production software: Ableton
Audio Interface: Universal Audio Volt 476
Monitors: Yamaha HS5
Headphones: Sennheiser HD-25, Beyerdynamic DT-770
Midi Keyboard: Novation Impulse 49, AKAI MPK Mini
Synth: Arturia MicroBrute, Korg MS20
Drum machines: Roland TR-08, Elektron Model Samples
FX/Filters: Sherman Filterbank 2
FX Pedal: Moog Moogerfooger MF-105M
Recorder: Tascam DR-100 MK3
Contact microphone: LOM Geofón
Microphone: Thomann t bone SC 450 large diaphragm studio mic 48V phantom power

I would like to get to a point where all my gears are all plugged simultaneously, ready for a recording session / jam without the need to install, plug cables/unplug and so on.

Example to illustrate what I need: at 44mn52
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eigT6DvHJo

Or: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y10AmCiKde8

What would you recommend or advise for that in terms of set up? Thinking about a mixer here that could support my needs

Many thanks
Best

What kinda budget are you considering?

A digital mixer would be the most practical and could replace your audio interface to boot, nice and neat. I’ve not used the Volt so not sure if most of the reasonably priced ones would sound better than it, so if you prefer to keep that in the mix you could pair a mixer with a patchbay and have everything always going at the mixer yet patch specific instruments direct into the Volt for recording parts.

You are looking for a mixer.

The problem is how are converters tied into the mixer.

For example, I use this mixer
https://www.soundcraft.com/en/products/bb100
using 84/400 points on a patch bay setup with the outputs half normal to converters.

If the mixer is digital, then it costs conversion every in/out, but is a huge cost savings and recall benefit.

Multitrack mixers.

Hi guys,
Thank you for your help, appreciated. My budget would be for that approx 500$.
Is there any way I can do with an audio interface + mixer (having all the instruments on the mixer)?

Surely you need to consider two different primary things - midi routing and mixer / interface.

Midi routing might be easy, but if you want to be able to re-configure midi routing on thee fly then you might benefit a dedicated solution.

Digital mixers which double as interfaces are great UNLESS you want to multitrack record post fader, in which case you need to choose carefully and maybe go down the analogue mixer plus multitrack interface route.

At least six things on your gear list are things I own, have considered buying in the past or would consider buying now.

What are you looking to achieve? EXACTLY. Apologies if I am being too simple (and apologies if I am confusing!)

Probably the simplest setup would be -

Any cheap old mixer, the only thing it needs is enough channels (remember you will need one mono channel for each mono instrument, and two mono channels or one stereo channel for each stereo instrument).

A stereo interface. You already have an interface that does this (and yours does more).

Just make sure you have enough channels on the new mixer for your instruments, and run the stereo output of the mixer into inputs 3 and 4 of your interface (and pan hard left and hard right on the inputs so instead of two mono inputs it is effectively one stereo input).

I literally own a £10 mixer (bought second hand, 6 mono channels but one doesn't work.

Each instrument either goes straight into the mixer, or in via an effects unit. Dead simple, any old cheap mixer will do the job.

Or, if you buy a better mixer you can wire things up in all sorts of better ways. And then get into patchbays!

BUT BUT BUT - the above approach has a MAJOR limitation - you can only record stereo, which might be all you wish to do.

Do you want to record stereo or multi-track?

If you want to record multitrack you need a digital mixer / interface all in one thing, or you need a mixer and a separate interface. The mixer will need to have outputs for each channel, and - to state the obvious - the interface will need to have enough inputs for the number of channels.

If you want to record multitrack do you think that you would like to be able to record the sound of each channel exactly as it comes out of the mixer (for example you might fade an instrument down on the mixer - do you want this to fade down the level of the recording as well, or do you want the recording to continue at the same volume irrespective of what you do with the mixer?)

$500 is a budget that might be just about enough.

On more little tip. In my experience it is VERY easy to find yourself needing to spend a lot of money on a lot of cables. Whatever you do you will always find yourself online spending £10 or £20 on one or two cables. If you can find someone local selling a job lot of mainly working second hand cables it can be a godsend. One of my best ever music related purchased was a £50 crate of cables (and it actually came with a £40 DI box and a £10 microphone in there!) Dozens of cables, so handy to have (and I could make my money back by selling some off in smaller job lots, and still keep loads).

Take a look at the Beringher x18 or the slightly cheaper xr18.
Under £500 and inputs and routing for days.

I would categorically do my best to avoid things deigned to be used with technology that could be out of date very quickly and OP may not have.

Does OP want a hands on mixer with buttons and knobs? Does OP own and iPad or Android device? Does OP want to have to use his phone to control his mixer?

Hi everyone, many thanks for your kind help and suggestions. I will try to address the different responses. Sorry in advance for my English as I am French

So what I would like to achieve exactly I think is quite simple:
For all my gears to be plugged in, with no need to do some set up, plug/unplug to record some music.
Using Ableton, I want to press the button "record" from my computer, use some synths, drum machines, microphones...
I want to be able to record all simultaneously, more instruments or individually, sometimes. In audio or midi.
To respond to another important point: no digital mixer for me, it would be more hands on mixer with buttons and knobs. Also, to be able to manage the volume of recording on channels / fade instrument, some standard effects etc.

I hope this is helpful. Please let me know if you need any other detail to advise

There are digital mixers which have faders and knobs, such as Zoom Livetrak L20 or Tascam Model 24. Stay away from the mixers which require you to use an app for control, such as Behringer Xair or A&H Qupac.

You can use the Tascam/Zoom style mixers as an audio interface, and record thru the mixer into Ableton directly, thru a USB cable. Or you can record onto the onboard SD card, then later import the audio files into Ableton, via the USB cable between the mixer and the computer.

If you use this style of mixer, then you would bypass your other audio interface, which doesn't have enough inputs to accomplish what you want.

All of the newer mixers don't have any MIDI interface, except maybe the Tascam Model 12 (or maybe it's the 16? Only one of them has it!) They each have compromises, so do your due diligence.

There are other options. You could set up an AVB studio with templates ready, so that you can start everything and get to recording quickly. I use a digital mixer and don't need a whole studio connected at once... so, you'll have to ask other people how to set up an AVB etc type of system, if you want to go that route.

Digital mixers can have buttons and knobs... but it sounds like you want to avoid the stuff that you would use an iPad with.

You haven't said so explicitly, but it sounds like you want to be able to record each instrument individually (midi or audio).

I would suggest 16 tracks is likely to be enough (for now at least). You might get away with fewer, but anyone can fill 16 very easily!

So, you need a 16 track digital mixer with built in audio / midi interface. Or you need an analogue mixer with separate interface audio / midi interface. Loads of choice, the issue is keeping it in budget.

"Also, to be able to manage the volume of recording on channels / fade instrument".

Why? Are you planning on recording live, using the mixer as an instrument? Are you planning to set the relative volumes of instruments as you record?

It seems to me (based on the features of available gear) that most people who multitrack record expect to set relative levels later in the process, not at the point of recording.

What computer do you have?

The only thing that you seem to be missing is that I think that OP might want to record post fader - he wants the recording to be relatively close to the finished track, he doesn't want to record everything that is coming out of all instruments all the time and then edit later.

From when I last upgraded I found that the vast majority of budget digital mixers do not allow for post fader recording - they're designed with the idea that you record everything and edit and adjust relative instrument volumes later.

I'd love you to read my posts on this thread and tell me where I am being a dumb-**** and require educating! There are probably plenty!

Calm down.

There's plenty of modern options that will indeed become obsolete in time. Does that mean they shouldn't be suggested? Of course not.

Op uses ableton, therefore already has a pc/mac in their space- should they be avoiding this as well due to impending obsolescence?

Everything comes to an end, at some point. Dismissing things because you don't believe something is going to be around for long, isn't going to be something that everybody else feels.



Op can always use a midi controller in lieu of an ipad btw.

Alternatively, you could sell the soundcard, and replace it with one that has more i/O, and especcially adat connections for expanders later on.

I quite like this approach, also because your daw can double up as a midi router and audio patchbay, that is quickly reconfigureable and has preset saving/instant recall.

i guess some of the digital mixer double as a soundcard, not sure about those in the 500 euro category.

Cheap analogue ones tend to have a lot of noise and colouration, and ones without soundcard functionality do not allow to record more than one stereo track, maybe a few tracks using auxes, monitoring outs or alternative outputs. Well, 4 mono or two stereo in the case of your current Volt 476

I keep posting on this thread to ensure that I am not missing something (please peeps, correct me if I am wrong)... surely the perfect, money no object approach is to combine a new interface and an analogue mixing desk, to give you the best of both worlds? Every instrument has its own channel on a physical, hands on, "old school" mixing desk AND every channel is going into a DAW via an audio / midi interface. I said "money no object" but this approach can be done surprisingly cheaply.

Digital mixers that have 16 tracks and double as interfaces are more like £700 or £800 plus if I remember correctly (second hand is an option).

I think when you say "soundcard" you should really be saying "interface".

Why use a midi controller or iPad (the latter of which OP has categorically said he doesn't want to use) when he can use a normal mixing desk (analogue or digital)?

The fact that it is inevitable that some of your gear will become obsolete is no reason to ignore the potential for obsolescence when buying even more gear.

Why tell me to calm down when you know that those words are much more likely to have the opposite effect?

On the Livetrak L12 (I use it because I got it used for $300, and that was the best value at the time for what I needed) I can adjust the levels per channel, and for the master channels, with a fader (digital gain) and also with the preamp knob (analog gain) before it gets recorded onto SD card (I usually record to SD card)... as long as I'm recording hardware instruments. I wouldn't advise this mixer for someone who wants to remix itb tracks, because it's very limited as an interface for taking tracks back out of the computer.

The OP could even record his hw synths and vocals, EQ, pan, compress the tracks - all that stuff - and mix it down to a 2-bus onboard the mixer, but I think it's easier to do that later in software.

Probably the best digital mixers, as far as being feature rich, with robust MIDI, are the used Rolands from a few generations ago, from the VS series. I wasn't kidding about the lack of MIDI support in the newer generations of these products. I guess they figured they could cut that corner and still maintain sales. The only one I know of is that one Tascam. Korg, Zoom, BOSS, Fostex, other Tascams... nothing.

If the OP doesn't mind using separate pieces for the control surface (faders etc) and interface hardware, something like a MOTU AVB system would be overkill but work. They'd probably have to pay someone to set it up, unless they're good with that stuff.

Two questions.

(1) I have just googled and found this which seems to contradict you - what am I missing? -

https://community.musicradiocreative...ost-fader/2232

Then I found this which I can't be bothered to get my head around??!?

https://www.reddit.com/r/podcasting/...om_l8_and_l12/

(2) Given OP seems to have a computer running Ableton wouldn't it be better and easier to suggest an option which records direct into Ableton as opposed to an SD card?

What I ended up buying, which I got second hand and not quite in OP's budget, was a Soundcraft FX16ii analogue mixer and a Tascam US-16x08 interface.

soundcard, interface, same thing. Marketing started calling them interfaces to sound hip & cool.

I'm just trying to suggest other approaches that could be considered.

Yes, likely a digital mixer is a good option.
That is, if it allows you to record all channels individually, and works as an 'interface' well, meaning low latency and stability.

I have my doubts about the driver quality and latency time. In my experience the used hardware and driver-set has a huge impact on buffer size and stability.

What digital mixers are there in the 700-800 pound range that have faders? Something like the behringer X18 does not have faders or controls, so you would need an ipad or computer anyway.

The ones with faders i find are more around the 1350 pound mark.

You can have a soundcard like the MOTU UltraLite mk5 with 8 inputs, 10 outputs and adat for just 650 euro new. And later you can expand it with extra inputs over adat if you want.

Focusrite and maybe some other brands will give you even more i/O at that pricerange, but i honestly can't recommend them. The preamp quality is ok-ish, but mostly the drivers, and thus latency and buffersize where they perform without glitches, is not very good.

My personal belief is that analog mixers affect sound quality quite often in a negative way, unless you spend big bucks.

Apart from live mixing, i have little experience with digital mixers in a studio environment.

I myself am perfectly happy using a tablet, mouse or midicontroller faders to do my mixing in the studio.

My understanding is that a soundcard is installed into a computer, whilst an interface is a standalone piece of hardware which connects to a computer. They might do the same thing, but there is a fundamental difference between the two things.

Analogue mixers don't introduce latency. Latency is introduced by the interface, whether it is standalone, or within a digital mixer. So latency is only relevant to the extent that you might wish to consider whether a standalone interface you are considering has more or less than the digital interface you are considering.

Tascam Model 12 is under £600 in UK and has faders.

Then why is the term 'external interface', or 'external soundcard' being used. Anyway, it's just semantics.

Incidentally, there's internal RME soundcards with loads of adat. Lowest latency of all types of cards/interfaces, and you can expand with preamps/adat expanders of your choice as you go on.

I'm pretty sure the driver efficiency of things like a behringer digi mixer will not be on par with that of a dedicated interface, especially since it's not its primary function.

Even between a Focusrite and RME interface, i've noticed a doubling/halving of stable buffersize and latency.

Hi everyone,

Thanks a lot for these inputs. I will address some of your questions to qualify better the needs and try to stay simple with my explanation.

So, you need a 16 track digital mixer with built in audio / midi interface. Or you need an analogue mixer with separate interface audio / midi interface. Loads of choice, the issue is keeping it in budget.

Isn't analogue mixer the best then to use then with my current audio interface Universal Audio Volt 476?

Recording needed: multi track

The only thing that you seem to be missing is that I think that OP might want to record post fader - he wants the recording to be relatively close to the finished track, he doesn't want to record everything that is coming out of all instruments all the time and then edit later.

I want to be able to record close to finished track but also be able to edit later in my software, Ableton coming out from all instruments.
To also clarify, for my computer, I am using a PC.

Let's say, I have recorded my voice at the microphone, some synths, and drums, and if I am not satisfy with an instrument but about some other elements I am OK with, I want to be able to keep them, re-arrange etc.

Sometimes I will just want to record one instrument, a synth, sometimes multiple instruments at once. Everything plugged in constantly, ready to play and record in audio / midi.

On top, I am not a big fan of technologies, digital etc. If I can stay away from the computer and plugins, get closer to instruments and physical that's best for me.

In many recording session in studios I have seen in the past, mixer + Audio interface were used.

I have seen these mixers:

Soundcraft signature 22
https://www.thomann.de/gb/soundcraft_signature_22.htm

Or Soundcraft FX 16 II
https://www.thomann.de/gb/soundcraft...iOjJ9&reload=1

Do you think it could suit my needs and what I am trying to achieve?

Many thanks again

Isn't analogue mixer the best then to use then with my current audio interface Universal Audio Volt 476?

If you use an analogue mixer and your current interface you can only record 4 tracks at most

I want to be able to record close to finished track but also be able to edit later in my software, Ableton coming out from all instruments.

If you are planning on recording everything the mixer is doing live then you need to have a mixer that can send individual outputs post-fader on each channel. This is a feature I definitely wanted.
It might be as well to accept that your mixer and interface and DAW are capturing everything (even the stuff that is muted as you play) and then edit out what you don't need in the DAW later. I think that if you buy a budget digital mixer then this is the approach you will be forced to use.

Let's say, I have recorded my voice at the microphone, some synths, and drums, and if I am not satisfy with an instrument but about some other elements I am OK with, I want to be able to keep them, re-arrange etc.

I think this is a great approach and eactly what I wanted too - I want to be as live as possible, whilst still giving myself the option of being able to edit, rearrange etc later. A "best of both worlds" approach. You could simply use an analogue mixer's stereo outs and record live in stereo using your current interface, but that massively limits your ability to edit later.

I have seen these mixers:

Soundcraft Signature 22
Or Soundcraft FX 16 II

I was seriously considering one of the MTK or Signature mixers, and ended up with the FX16ii because you can send outputs post fader on the FX16ii, but not the Signatures or FX16ii.

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.

paulst - double check what I am saying before buying

someone else - please correct me if I am wrong on anything, or there are important things I am missing.

FFS just buy a mutitrack mixer like a Tascam or Soundcraft. You get the best of both worlds, analog mixing and control & effects, with ability to record each track individually straight into computer via USB, or record the main 2 track master fader out with all your EQ's and levels etc.

You can have everything patched in all the time, label the channels up and get working.

Two things. Not least to clarify for OP.

Are you saying, just buy an multitrack DIGITAL mixer with built in interface from Tascam or Soundcraft? I am 99% sure you are and I can see why you would give this advice. It is pretty good advice, maybe very very very good advice.

BUT. I think the idea of using the mixer as an instrument AND live multi-track recording at the same time, so that you can get a live "dub mix" but change the odd channel or section later makes a lot of sense too.

Thanks a lot again everyone

FFS just buy a mutitrack mixer like a Tascam or Soundcraft. You get the best of both worlds, analog mixing and control & effects, with ability to record each track individually straight into computer via USB, or record the main 2 track master fader out with all your EQ's and levels etc.

You can have everything patched in all the time, label the channels up and get working.

Excellent, so a multitrack mixer will be I guess the best option for my needs.

Do you have any reference or specific model to recommend from Tascam or Soundcraft?

Hi again everyone,
After doing some more research, I found this model from Tascam.

Tascam Model 16:
https://www.thomann.de/gb/tascam_mod...55&subid=forum

It seems it would cover all my initial need : with multi tracks recording, later edit in Ableton etc.

Last but not least, I can record without starting my computer:
16-Track recording is possible in WAV/BWF format on SD/SDHC/SDXC cards up to 128 GB

What do you think so far?

From what I know that would be a good option.

I think it would be useful to let us know more precisely how you intend to work.

I will try to precise even more to my previous explanation

Primary use:

- I am doing some recording and producing music
- I would like to get to a point where all my gears are all plugged simultaneously, ready for a recording session / jam without the need to install, plug cables/unplug and so on.
- I want to be able to record close to finished track but also be able to edit later in my software, Ableton coming out from all instruments
- Let's say, I have recorded my voice at the microphone, some synths, and drums, and if I am not satisfy with an instrument but about some other elements I am OK with, I want to be able to keep them, re-arrange etc.
- Sometimes I will just want to record one instrument, a synth, sometimes multiple instruments at once. Everything plugged in constantly, ready to play and record in audio / midi.

Configuration:

Production software: Ableton
Audio Interface: Universal Audio Volt 476
Monitors: Yamaha HS5
Headphones: Sennheiser HD-25, Beyerdynamic DT-770
Midi Keyboard: Novation Impulse 49, Akai MPK Mini
Synth: Arturia MicroBrute, Korg MS20
Drum machines: Roland TR-08, Elektron Model Samples
FX/Filters: Sherman Filterbank 2
FX Pedal: Moog Moogerfooger MF-105M
Recorder: TASCAM DR-100 MK3
Contact microphone: LOM Geofón
Microphone: Thomann t bone SC 450 large diaphragm studio mic 48V phantom power


A few details on the mixer I am searching for:
- Analog mixer
- Multi track recorder
- Includes audio interface (optional but preferred, will be used with an audio interface, sometimes without)
- Recording to SD card without need to have computer to record / should also support multi track recording (if no SD recording find a way to record without using computer with an additional gear: multitrack recorder)
- mountable on rack
- USB to PC
- Can connect to audio interface
- Can be used as controller with DAW
- Phantom power
- Multiple FXs
- Supports Ableton/Pro Tools
- Monitors Yamaha HS5
- Metronome or click
- Important: warranty provided

I found here a video that would somehow illustrate what I want to do:
https://youtu.be/5uucFAgw4AY

The only difference seems that here is more a "live" session or jam, for me it will be more about recording each and all instruments / mics etc, this way and edit each track later when necessary in my DAW.

I am currently investigating some Soundcraft models. Hope this helps