Hi, Everyone

Please help me either to get rid of an Idée fixe or to meet a proper choice between my own Korg X50 and the idea of the eventual Triton Classic 64 Mb + SCSI Drive I am being offered now.

I'm looking for someone who has experience with the both but preferable who has more knowledge concerning the circuitry available.

Now I have got the both schematics. What I can see is the impressive schematics on the part of Triton and the less impressive schematics as conveyed by X50.

The Triton has 3 DAC boards / plates with filters (1 single & 1 double plated) along with possibly 1&2 + 3&4 voices or registers, as I might think (blue colored);
while the X50 has a simplified schematics with 2 DAC single boards / plates with filters only, so I also cannot see any possible 1&2 + 3&4 voices or registers at all.

My question would be: What is the impact on the timbrality has to be expected in the both cases? So, is it worth changing from the Korg X50 to the Triton Classic while neglecting the absence of both the Sampler and the Sequencer in the Korg X50 just on the reason of timbrality?

Thanks.

The Triton classic has 5 insert effects, while the X50 has one. The Triton also has more types of effects. That plays a huge part when doing a multi timbral setup.

Technically, they both use the HI Synthesis, but as you can see from the schematics, the Triton is better equipped, but they are two different beasties. IIRC, the X50 was just a budget board for gigginig/sound module. The Triton is going to be better in pretty much every way as its a full on workstation with full sequencer, sampler, better effects, better build, better keybed, better screen, etc etc. The Triton will most likely have a slight edge over the X50, sound wise. Oddly, the X50 has more multi-samples than a Triton, 64mb vs 32mb.

Unfortunately, I don't think the Triton can load X50 patches of you have some that you've made and want to bring along. If you are into sound design, the Triton will be far more flexible with sampling and more effects routings and choices. If you just gig, then you might want to stick with the X50 due to its weight, portability, etc. For sound design, the extra multi-samples will help make up for the loss of sampling.

I had both of them, not at the same time though.

Triton classic, with all the advantages mentioned, always seemed to me too oldish and therefore a bit obscure.

X50, while having awful keys, wins in the sound department, those extra 32MB are very much audible in choice, both in preset and potentially user programs. It also has a better organization of functions, it is easier to navigate. Beware that portamento is not quite clean.

Make your choice based on the strengths you need.

Now, I will attach a screenshot of the Triton I'am being offered, it has 64 Mb just like the X50. As for the price, they both have the same price of circa €300, but the X50 retained its original box de facto and it is looking out as an abs. new one in shape. I do not know anything as for the state and condition of the Triton, however.

I need somewhat more of advising indeed. The X50 arrived just a week ago. I have still no experience with it anyway.

To tell the truth, I'm not interested too much in sampling and sequencing from external sources at all but merely to get the most "thick" string & orchestra sound, nothing else, as the Triton is being known of. This just because I have or would have other synths and external effect devices like e.g. the Lexicon MX200.

The two similar instruments in one flat seem to be a wasting enterprise anyway. The one of them should be sold or even not bought at all. The Triton still remains just an idea or an eventual possibility. While the X50 is real and like a toy for playing with. I would not like to take them both too much seriously. Cause the price is not €3,000 indeed but 10fold less though.

When we speak about 32MB memory of Triton, we speak of the ROM memory or simplified, factory waveforms, or oversimplified, sounds which the synth has in itself. Of these X50 has double, 64MB.

What is shown in the picture is indeed 64MB but it is RAM memory for the external samples which you need to either make for yourself or (more often) obtain from some source. SCSI is a way to connect an external Hard Disc and it's great that it's there. Putting your samples on the hard disc will give you the fastest way to load these samples. It's a 20th-century speed so, don't expect anything fast. Also, these 64MB is already a maximum.

X50 has no RAM memory.

Now I see... The Triton's 64 MB RAM memory is not like a modern storage value up to 1 GB, as far as I know. Which could be used in a studio usage. More likely I would prefer to make use of the factory wave forms and to enrich them consequently instead of designing them from a scratch.

You know, I am greatly indebted indeed to you for your experienced sharing of real knowledge concerning the use of these instruments in practice. Thank you, Gaul.

I haven’t used the Triton, but I’ve used an x50 for years.

To see what’s possible with the x50, you would need to program it—even if that just meant layering two sampled sounds to make your own program and starting over with the onboard fx and eq. Try turning off the onboard reverb and use an external reverb. If you have some kind of stereo preamp, hardware eq, or hardware mixer, you can try running the x50 through it and see if that adds a nice color/thickens the sound.

I realize you may not want to go as far as to program the x50. Up to you.

The x50 isn’t super-high end in sound quality, and you’re not going to fool anybody into thinking it’s an orchestra. But it’s musical, better than a toy, if you work with it a little.

It's also worth noting that you can install plug in boards in the Triton, thereby expanding its sound ROM. There is a wide range of these and you should be able to find them quite cheap (except the most interesting one, which is the MOSS board, offering other types of synthesis - VA and physical modeling).

You are welcome, Cuneiform!

Now the X50 is at my disposal. A Lexicon MX200, as well, too.
First, I tried to find out in the manual (132 pages) how to make the sound thick; I'm not a newbie within the acoustic theory, and a thick sound is to get theoretically. However, there are only few instances referring to HOW TO as for detune, (triple)chorus, and the like.

Sure, up to 8 layer sounds should be possible. OK, 2, 3 or 4 would be enough do detune them. There is even a Copy Utility suggested. But, there is no indication how to, it will copy one preset into another. I couldn't see any empty preset. I deem the detuning should be put in digitally by introducing ciphers, not by hearing, for each one layer. In e.g. Roland SH201 the detuning is to be made by a knob by ear. What makes a difference.
Unfortunately, the manual is too scarce on this issue.
Thus, the big banks of presets in the X50 do hint on their preferable use.
I do not need any cosmic sounds or fantasies, just only strings, brass and orchestra sounds. If I need only these ones, they should be preset from factory, are they not? This is a question of naivety of mine.

If you want to build a big thick sound, you could try layering several individual programs (sounds) in a Combination, then detuning them. You may want to layer the same sound more than once, or use all different sounds.

See in the Operation Guide, the section “Detailing Editing with Combinations,” starting on p. 62. In particular, on p. 65 you will see instructions on how to layer several timbres (“Creating Key Splits and Layers.”)

Once you have two or more sounds layered, you can detune them slightly—see detune instructions under “Transpose, Detune (BPM Adjust)” on p.67.

You could also fool with adding different effects, or not.

btw: Program D127 is an initialized program, if you want to make a sound from scratch. Combination C127 is an initialized Combination.

————-
You may decide that dealing with a big rompler like the x50 isn’t worth it. It is very different to use from a virtual analog synth like the SH201 (I have a 201 myself), because the SH201 is mostly knobs and sliders, but everything in the x50 is under menus. So the x50 takes longer to learn, since you have to spend time reading the manual, learning how to get around, and examining some presets before it starts to make sense.

Other than being sample-based, the x50 isn’t much different from the 201 underneath: You’ve got a sound source that goes through digital filters, an amplifier stage, and effects—modulated by envelopes and LFOs. You just have to learn on the Korg where all those things live in the menus. The multitimbrality is the other complication: The x50 is multitimbral, many synths stacked up together if you want that—which adds even more menus to deal with.

Hope this helps in some way. Good luck.

@ percussion boy

Thank you a lot for having taken the time to reply.
I've read through the page 67 on my own, but couldn't see where the menu Detune is to be found, sounds terrific.
Guess, the detune values are to be introduced digitally, not controlled by ear? Even more difficult.
What about Novation X, Ensonig SQ1, Fantom? Should one proceed there the same way digitally? Probably, I would more enjoy messing around with the SH201 or any Yamaha PSR with presets of classic timbres instead of that programming. But the X50 is within my living space now.

Apologies—The instructions I tried to give you probably did more harm than good.

I feel like you want a quick, simple way to accomplish a task (detune two sounds agalnst each other, like detuning an osc on the 201). That’s understandable. But Korg romplers don’t work like that. You can’t just reach out and turn a Detune knob.

If you want to create or modify sounds on the x50, I’m afraid you’ll have to sit with the synth and the manual and learn your way around. It will take some days. But once you’ve done that, then when you get to the instructions for detuning two sounds against each other, you’ll know what you’re looking at, how you work the menus to do the detune.

This isn’t great, but it’s how it is. I suspect the Triton will be similar, since the x50 and the Triton are kind of in the same Korg synth “family.” I haven’t owned a Triton, so can’t say for sure.

Diving into the x50 may not be your thing, and no reason it should be. There are other synths, and probably some that more easily give you what you want.

Sorry for any confusion.

@ percussion boy

O Lord, your pieces of advice are the kindest and most valuable ever!

Maybe, I myself am so foolish, but all the modern synths and not so much modern ones are so digitalised from A to Z Maybe, VSTi's would be better to me. Since I just want to turn knobs without programing. Or just use them in basic sounds and treat them with effect devices.

Again, the Korg X50 manual is not that much understandable to make use of it, cause the writers were completely aware of what they were writing about while the readers are not that much at all!

Say, they write "make use of the Copy utility" to double a preset, but they have not said a word where an empty preset is available. That's just an example.

It sounds like you just need some kind of synth or synth VST with good presets for thick string/orchestra stuff, and maybe a simple interface so you can tweak basic parameters with knobs (or pictures of knobs on your computer screen.)

Or maybe some kind of not-too-complicated software sample orchestra library, if you want more the sound of “real” strings, etc..

I wouldn’t know what to suggest, but someone else probably will.

Good luck....

@ percussion boy

So at the moment I feel like I am not up to a digi-synth without knobs, so I'm too odd and uncontemporaneous in thinking, alas.

In the first instance, I could be thinking in terms of analog synths like the SH201, the Streichfett, the Solina's replica, as for the Hardware. So, I must be thinking in terms of the Software, too.