Anyone using these for AES duties? How do you find them for analog over other cables? I use Mogami 2549 and 3173 and would love to hear comparisons. Any and all feedback welcome!

Well, ended up ordering some Grimm TPR to see for myself.

Trying it yourself is the only way to know, the Mogami mic and AES cable that you use are neutral, hard to do better, some of the cables add some color or brightness to sound different.

Yeah the Mogami have worked well so far. Although, there are very clear differences in sound between the 2549 and 3173 in my system, some for the good and some for the not so good. The TPR will provide more contrast.

I have recently compared single ended (RCA) cables: Audioquest Black Mamba II w/premium silver connectors, Mogami 2549 w/Amphenol gold connectors silver soldered, and Grimm TPR w/Amphenol gold connectors silver soldered---all 4 meters in length. I am currently testing these cables for a final application of connecting a DEQX HDP-4 to a three-way open baffle triamped speaker design of mine. I would use the balanced output/cables but the amps I will be using are single ended inputs only. I used the output of an OPPO bdp-105 to a pair of Adam audio A77x studio monitors, using only cd as the source media. What I perceived in this specific set-up
was: Music was engaging and dynamic through all three....... for awhile. To my ear the Grimm was more "transparent"--feeling the background was cleaner. Was definitely easier to listen to and enjoy for much longer periods of time than the other two cables. No loss of high end. I enjoyed Audioquest slightly more than the Mogami. Easier to think at first listen to Mogami and Audioquest that there was more more going on----there was--too much high end. The Grimm was by far the most enjoyable cable to listen to in this set-up. I recommend you sample different cables in your set-up. Everything matters, how or how much depends on you and your equipment. I will doing the same tests at some point on the other system.

But Mogami 2549 is a balanced interconnect cable! Mogami makes better unbalanced interconnect cables.

Still waiting on the TPR. Have gone back and forth between the 3173 and 2549 many times and prefer the 2549 now. Will post more detailed thoughts later.

Of course the Mogami as well as the Grimm are designed as balanced cables. Any balanced cable can be wired for single ended use with the appropriate connector. All I shared was my perceptions of each cable wired for single ended use. I made no extrapolations on how Mogami vs, Grimm ( both wired for balanced use ) might sound. I did add an edit at the bottom of the previous post that I did have on hand a pair of Mogami cables wired for balanced use (Neutrik Gold XLR connectors) and noted the same characteristics with them that I heard with single ended version of Mogami. (The Oppo has balanced outputs as well as the Adam A77Xs having balanced inputs). It would be a fair, but not absolute generalization that any one particular brand of cable ( that can be wired for balanced use) will have very similar characteristics whether used in single ended mode vs. balanced mode if the runs are relatively short.

Thanks for your feedback. Regarding your comment about: "there was more more going on----there was--too much high end," this is how I am currently and partially finding my 3173 in comparison to the 2549. The 2549 is the more natural one. I'll definitely expand more on this later on and my methodology when the TPR comes in. It's been built and shipped. Just a waiting game.

While a balanced cable cable (STP) can be wired two different ways as a unbalanced cable, neither way is a good as a well chosen coax cable.

One might be prediposed to think that.....just let your ears be your guide, be open to surprises. You're right if you feel the need to be.

I might be better off, just following good engineering practice.

Can you list out which type of design/construction is best suited for balanced interconnects, unbalanced interconnects, AES cables, microphone cables, instrument cables? Having a full picture would help. Thanks!

In almost all cases, good engineering practice is more important in long cables than short.

Unbalanced interconnects:
Where long in this case is greater than 3 meters (10 feet).
A coax cable with::
a heavy braided shield. heavy is equal or larger than 14AWG (2mm sq)
less important::
good low frequency shielding (braid). an additional high frequency shield (foil) is OK.
Reasonably low total cable capacitance.

Balanced interconnects (traditional):
A Shielded Twisted Pair (STP)
With both conductors symmetrical in respect to the shield. This is the hard part as it takes big expensive machines to make consistent symmetrical cable.

Balanced interconnects (new):
We are now seeing Cat5 & Cat6 cables being used as 4 channel balanced interconnects. (This deserves a thread of it's own)

Microphone cables:
Same as traditional balanced cables with considerations for:
Robust construction, low handling noise and flexibilty.

Musical Instrument cables:
I'll pass on these.

Digital AES cables:
A Shielded Twisted Pair
With a 110 Ohm Radio Frequency Characteristic Impedance.

Hey, thanks a bunch! I remember you saying the Mogami 3173 AES wasn't that good for analog as it had a drain wire and would result in SCIN.

I checked the (incoming) Grimm TPR specs and it's listed as 110 ohms as well like the 3173. How would these two compare for AES and analog duties in theory?

Just got the TPR five minutes ago. Out of all the way I had imagined the sound changing, this cable went another way. It's definitely different from both of the Mogamis. I have several hundred hours on both 3173 and 2549. The TPR is still physically cold from shipping on the other hand, so if not burn-in, it needs a warm-in at the very least.

Will continue to update!

Keep us posted on your Grimm findings. I bought a 500' spoil of the stuff and have been slowly replacing my entire mastering room with it. I like it THAT much. Very umm musical indeed. Pathetic description I know, but go listen for a few hours.

However, there are two other contenders that I'm still debating whether or not to integrate between certain chains: Vovox and Evidence Audio. These are both solid core copper (no strands like the Grimm) and so far my tests are baffling. It's all source dependent, with my preference changing mostly on vocal tone. This all makes me want to give up caring about cable and just start listening to music again.

But anyways, if anyone has any further discoveries between these three in particular: Grimm TPR, Evidence Audio Lyric and Vovox Sonorus (unshielded), please share your findings.

Regardless, it is safe to assume that any of these cables can deliver incredibly high performance transmission without breaching into ridiculous audiophile spendings.

-Mark

This is the only comparison I found of the TPR to other cables (which includes the Vovox Sonorus): Multitest - vijf interlinks getest - Alpha-Audio

It's in Dutch, but with Google translate on Chrome, it's relatively clear. The last page has a nice table that compares different elements.

So how did you find the Vovox?

I use Grimm TPR as microphone cable and as interconnects for my outboard. Very good cable, especially for the money. Great to wire a studio. Ultra stable image. Much preferred over Mogami or Klotz (on location). However, I keep getting back to Vovox cables for maximum transparency and width/depth of soundstage. The Vovox highs are featherlight. The textures are magnificent. I change cable very often between outboard units, but nine out of ten times I end up with Vovox, based only on what I hear. Only sometimes a particular channel works best with another cable.

For AES I have found Sommer Carbokab to be my absolute favourite. It has a carbon core, which seems to be very effective against inner reflections, hence no jitter effects. This cable also works great on voice channels of analogue sound: fantastically mid-detailed, much more than any other cable. Can also be used to tame overly bright signals a bit. I have no EQ that can do this the way a Carbokab cable can.

I agree with the findings of that test. The remarks resonate my own impressions.

Thanks for your impressions. Will take a loot at the Sommer AES cables. I'm well aware and unfortunately aware through first hand experience of the reflection aspect.

BTW which specific Vovox are you using?

Please note that Sommer Carbokab is not marketed as a specific AES cable. But it is 110 ohms and works beautifully in that role, in my experience.

I'm using Vovox Link Direct and Link Protect cables. Not the Sonorus variants. I use the Protect version if it has to come close to power supplies, or has to cross power cables. Otherwise I use the Direct versions for maximum signal integrity and lowest cost.

The prices of the Vovox cables have been steadily going up in the past few years, probably due to the Swiss Franc becoming terribly expensive. Fortunately I purchased mine over a number of years, but despite the prohibitive prices I still buy some more every now and then. They simply are the overall best sounding cables I know.

Thanks. Will consider Vovox eventually the next time I'm looking for interconnects. The TPR has been performing quite well since I got it. Haven't gone back to the Mogami yet to compare it. I'll probably be looking at power cables next and figuring it out for myself.

Before you install, make a bowl of warm water with some dishwashing soap and clean your cables.

There's machine lube on it from the factory, clean cables improve sound.

My choice by ear.... Belden 46349.

Hey Zoom, curious about your findings with TPR vs Mogami, I also use 2549 and 3173.

Hi SD,

I have been using the TPR exclusively on the Amphions since I got them. I will bring the 2549 and 3173 back in for a comparison against the TPR and will post some thoughts.

Mogami 3173 vs. Grimm TPR

Cable lengths:
+ Grimm TPR = 2 feet each
+ Mogami 2549 = 15 feet each
+ Mogami 3173 = 10 feet each

These were used in fully balanced setup, so I don't know how much influence difference length actually made in this setup. However, there was no problem with the short TPR or the longest Mogami 2549. Ideally, it would be nice to have them all the same length, but I think the difference would be little to skew the results that much. FWIW, I still loved the long 2549. There's already bigger things going on regardless of the little differences in length on the big scale of what XLR/balanced can handle. IME the results would still be same.

Winner: Grimm TPR. Easily.

When I had switched from 10 months of 3173 to 2549, I was already liking the more relaxed sound. When I went to the TPR, my initial reaction was "this is different!"

The music felt somewhat slower and the mids, along with soundstage felt different...against both Mogamis.

After having put a hundred plus hours on the TPR, I feel very confident in being familiar with what the TPR brings. When I went back to the 3173 today, the 3173 felt flat sounding in terms of soundstage. The trails were harder to hear. Most importantly, it was very easy to hear the problem in the midrange and treble that was fatiguing. The 3173 for me is in the last place. The 3173 has an unnatural glare that can easily be spotted and A/B in vocal programs. Just put on late night TV shows and A/B between each commercial for long listening sessions. This really helped. This glare comes across the board: film, TV, music.

Another huge point: I initially felt that the music was slower on the TPR. Today, I went back to the 3173 and it just sounded out of rhythm and harsh. I physically couldn't groove to it, so that says a lot. I am enjoying how the TPR carves out space for all the instruments, but especially noticeable with vocals. This was evident since day 1.

IMO no contest between the 3173 and TPR for balanced analog interconnects. TPR all the way through. Will add the 2549 in the mix when it's not being used in another setup.

Thanks for the comments Zoom, thinking about trying some TPR as mike cable.

Back when I had gotten the TPR, I had stopped using the 3173 for analog because of that harshness. Turns out, that harshness is there on the 3173 even when being used in a digital AES setting. The same quality in both my 10 footers and 18 footers. The TPR on the other hand is better sounding in both analog AND digital roles. The 2549 is still being used. Nothing wrong with that for analog interconnects. Nothing irritating about its sound. Haven't done a comparison of 2549 vs. TPR directly, but feeling perfectly happy with the TPR

I might get more TPR for digital, but might be open to some ideas. People seem to like the Vovox unshielded stuff for power, analog, and digital. However, I feel that even in a home setting, there's too much crap going on and that's it best to stick to shielded?

Sorry, I know its and old thread but.. I guess you only use the TPR between the converter and the Amphion amp, and not as speaker cable from the amp to the speakers? Just curious..