Been a Logic user since 2003 (back in the Emagic days). The current lack of ARA support, however, and the lack og Apple stating that they intend on implementing it makes me - for the first time ever - consider DAW alternatives. So many interesting plugins coming out these days where ARA is front and center of the workflow. I have an old Cubase 6 license that I can use as a direct upgrade path for Cubase 14 Pro.

I know it’s been stated that there may be some technical issues preventing Logic from working with ARA - which just makes my curiousity about the “outside world” even bigger.

Anyone else having similar considerations? Or is ARA not that important to you?

AFAIK Logic supports ARA 2 - isn’t it a matter of upgrading your Plugins?

No - unfortunately not.

ARA in Apple Silicon

Check out this post…it’s a work around…I’ve using it now and it works

What’s the reasoning for not upgrading? What are using that only uses Ver 1?

ARA (1 or 2 ) does not work with Apple M chips. The cheeky Apple marketing says Logic work with ARA 2…but…only with Intel or if you operate Logic in Rosetta mode. So after spending $5k on a Mac Studio Ultra and updating to the latest version of Logic…I’m left ‘holding the bag’…as Apple and Celemony pointing fingers at each other!

Logic running natively on Apple silicon *sandboxes* plugins - they run *outside* Logic, but ARA requires plugins to be running directly inside Logic, in order for them to access Logic's audio data.

This is why if you run Logic in Rosetta (which runs Intel code), or when you run Logic on Intel Macs, those configurations still run plugins directly inside Logic, and so ARA is available in those configurations.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that Apple are working on this (but it's not a trivial issue due to the security structure of macOS),

Btw….(mu:zines)…I want to thank you for posting the *freeze* work around…it’s brilliant and saves me some time

You're welcome - same for me!

there are other DAWs that run natively on MacOS and use ARA, so its not a OS restriction at that point but how apple chose to approch the topic in logic development.

Correct, it's not an OS restriction - those other DAWs are choosing to host plugins directly inside the DAW, and are not using Apple's mechanic for running plugins sandboxed outside the DAW.

Other than platform stability, the big win for this feature specifically during the Intel -> ARM transition is that you can run plugins with mixed architectures in the same session - ie, in Logic, if any plugins were ARM native, they'd run natively, and any plugins which hadn't yet been ported to Apple silicon and remain Intel-only could *also* be used seamlessly in the session. You can't do that with plugins that are hosted directly because the plugin has to be running the same architecture as the host - ie, if you were running Live natively, you simply wouldn't be able to use Intel-only plugins.

This feature alone was a lifesaver for me during the ARM transition, and while I still have a few old Intel-only plugins, those things are not a deal breaker if I lost them, and Logic is pretty stable with my plugins anyway.

Apple don't look keen to be able to offer an alternative mechanic to host native or ARA-only native plugins internally and bring ARA back that way, so we'll just have to deal with the current state of things until the time it changes...

Would you consider using a different DAW due to Apple’s failure to implement ARA in Logic (maybe just until if/when they get it sorted)? ARA integration in other major DAWs like Studio One and Cubase looks absolute killer. And as I said in my original post, lots of new ARA plugins seem to be launched these days…

Me? No, but I can’t speak for others. I guess it depends how badly the lack of ARA screws up your workflow, and how attached to one DAW you are…

I am surprised Apple hasn’t figured out something by now, at least a whitelisting of major developers, but maybe they just coded themselves into a corner.

In the meantime, my favorite hack is to freeze and unfreeze a track with Melodyne (must be in transfer mode). You still have to reanalyze after the unfreeze but it’s much much faster than realtime to get the track ready. I haven’t been able to make this work with Auto Tune.

The bummer of all this for me is the widening gap between Rosetta and Apple Silicon Logic. As they develop more plugins that require AS to run, the gap gets bigger.
They should feel a little embarrassed at this point that they haven’t figured this out, and you never know what’s lurking behind Apples wall of silence. Maybe they’re working on it, maybe they’ll end up being the only major DAW without native ARA.

Considering it's built in partnership with PreSonus, one would believe that Studio One would spearhead the push for it, yes. ARA does look pretty nice and eventually it will come to Logic in Silicon but as was described by others, plugins within Logic 11 Silicon are sandboxed, and I prefer the much higher efficiency and compatibility this offers to ARA in general, at least for the time being.

I was used to freezing all my tracks before I had a Silicon Mac. Now I don't need to do that almost ever. Freezing a few ones (which is pretty fast on an M2 Ultra) doesn't sound like a problem or even a noticeable workflow slowdown compared to most other things Logic offers.

However, it's undeniable Studio One is one of the best-coded DAWs out there, and if you don't feel like you're getting the most out of Logic's ample feature list, you should indeed look into it. But maybe for a few more reasons than just ARA.

I could be wrong, but as far as "whitelisting" that seems to be how pro tools works with ARA. Avid announces specific plugins that will work with ARA in pro tools and (as far as I know) those are the only ones that will work. They add some here and there as time goes on.

I’m starting to think Apple wants us to get frustrated with Melodyne and give their Flex Pitch a go…they claim to have improved it greatly…I gave it try last month…and it is improved a lot…but, I’m so used to the Melodyne work flow and the speed and accuracy I’ve developed with it. Learning a new work flow is not out the question, but…

What is ARA?…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_Random_Access

While FlexTime is convenient because of its native GUI implementation, both its quality and functionality is limited compared to ARA plugins such as Vocalign that does time aligning between multiple vocal tracks. Apple simply needs to find a way to implement ARA, so we can make full use of all professional tools available on the market (like other major DAWS already support).

Thank you!
Didn’t knew about that.
Seems very interesting.

IMO Flex Pitch/Time still sounds horrible compared to whatever competition. And it's obviously not working polyphonically the way Melodyne does.

I don't care about ARA, and don't have any plugins that use it.

Ableton Live is likely the most widely used DAW and it doesn't support ARA

Some say FL Studio is the most popular DAW. It doesn't support ARA either.

I hear you - other daws may not yet support the ARA standard. But the ARA concept is truly innovative in that it integrates unique third party audio editing features directly in the daw interface. It may not be as groundbreaking as when the VST concept was introduced back in the 1990s, but still innovative. Hope it gets the tracktion it deserves 👍

Yeah, I agree, ARA is important, especially for certain tools that a lot of us are used to, whether it be Melodyne or Vocalign etc.. and while it 'can' work in Logic or whatnot, it's running Rosetta... which understandably a lot of people don't wanna deal with at least in terms of active audio projects.

It's a 'security' issue/argument from Apple and the devs on that to my understanding, and they should work it out.... like whatever Rogue Amoeba did with their apps that involved jacking into a stream which Apple doesn't like... and is only getting tighter on that...

But no, I don't want to run Melodyne in Rosetta etc, and there are more and more apps using ARA that push the question, and it should be figured out without question.

Just because someone else hasn't heard of it or doesn't feel 'they' need it means little to me, when I know plenty of people that either do, or are used to it's functionality or similar workflow over a decade plus...

Because of the ARA thing in Logic I bought Studio One last year. It was a total disaster, upgraded to S7 spent another 150 €. Still buggy as hell.
Went back to logic and tune my vocals with Flex Pitch and Auto-Tune. Not perfect, but better than jerking around in Rosetta or learn a new DAW. It's a shame though that I spent a lot of money for Melodyne studio and Vocalign Pro and cannot really use them.

Yeah, that sounds like something I could have done - trying to get a “true” ARA experience. I’m considering Cubase. But the thing is… I’ve been working exclusively in Logic for 15 years, and - like you - I’m so used to it (workflows, shortcuts, inner workings…). I’ve also spent money on Melodyne and Vocalign over the last couple of years, but am now stuck either with flextime and other non-ARA plugins that do not integrate tightly with the daw. Maybe 2025 will be the year where Apple manages to integrate ARA in Logic? Fingers crossed.

Here's my workflow in (non Rosetta) Logic tuning vocals.
- Sing well ;-)
- Tune w/Flex Pitch in a gentle manner to avoid artifacts
- Bounce track
- Use Auto tune (Softube is great)
- If I have backing vocals (I always have), sometimes I use the groove function to align them rhythmically.

Clients have not complained so far.