Hello,

I am interested in hiring a designer to build a small studio (20-50k) in Toronto, how would one go about finding a quality designer for a project like this?

Is there a directory on here somewhere?

Can anyone recommend someone?

The studio will be mostly for tracking vocals and mixing, no need for live room.

I am looking for someone who is experienced and can head the project from start-to-finish.

Thanks in advance.


AZ

I can't even begin to imagine what his fees are but Francis Manzella is one of the best. The places he's designed and built speak for themselves.


http://www.fmdesign.com/2013/

I know Fran and would not hesitate to recommend him.... of course the same goes for John Sayers, John Brandt, Jeff Hedback, Wes Lachot, Boggy (in no particular order) - all 6 of whom do amazing designs....... there are (of course) a whole host of others - but I name only those I know personally.........

My personal recommendation would be to go examine studios designed by these folks - each of which have a different approach, a different feel or vibe to their rooms and all of whom design rooms that are identifiable as being by them the minute you walk into the space (if you know anything of their designs).........

If I wanted someone to design a room for me - my quest would begin with defining (exactly) what I wanted first (from all points of view) and then I would find the person who could provide me with exactly that.

Best of luck to you

Rod

I am sure you will get a BUNCH of PM's from designers, but I would also recommend Rod Gervais (the guy who just posted above). I have to ask though is this a excising room that you are converting or a full new build out?

A big +2 for Rod.

Andre

I doubt if there are any low 'quality' designers operating. Its a very small market in a very connected world. I suggest a local would be most familiar with local codes, supplies, personnel and so on. Ahem, the previous poster springs to mind. Ideally you should go and listen to studios done by people on your short list.

DD

Check with Martin and Pilchner-Schoustal.
PSII
Does amazing work, lives around Toronto and is just an awesome guy. Funny as hell too!

Most likely will be converting an office space into the studio. Also, no PMs yet!

Thanks everyone I will check everything out and follow-up with your recommendations!

You may want to list the room here (pictures and so on) and see what people might recommend. Also if you are using commercial products, a lot of those companies will help with design of the room acoustics, layout and so on. If you are talking about building new walls, isolation and so on then for sure get a designer or do A LOT of research.

Is the 20 to 50K the whole studio or just the design?
Close to the top of the list should be: Builder, electrician, audio installer, HVAC, ect...
Having people that will follow directions is a MUST...

Thanks for the advice. I for sure am not capable of handling this process on my own so a designer will be needed. I will post pics of space in the next week. I do plan on building new walls, isolation...etc

I was hoping the whole project (design and construction), excluding the gear obviously. My needs are not to complex/studio will be small. But, I also realize that is a tiny budget for any studio...

edit: maybe including some gear

Thanks, Rod. Do you have a website or portfolio I could checkout?

Are any of those designers located in Toronto?

I do not have a website (used to - but it was just a drag on my energies - and I always found myself much too busy to keep it up...... so I let it go)

I thought about putting together a portfolio once - but never got around to it......

However - if you want to check out my work/clients you could always just google me I suppose - I've done quite a bit of work around the world and hope to do more before I hit the ground face up......

My plate is pretty full right now (I have a 1/2 dozen projects in various states of design/construction) - and I am probably 5 or 6 months away from being able to take on any more........ so if you're in a rush I would not be the person to look to. I work pretty much by myself - I don't trust other people to do anything when it comes to my studio designs - so from concept to large scale details I am a 1 man operation.......

Anyway - best of luck to you.......... and if you like my concepts and we end up working together that would be great..........

Have a great rest of your day,

Rod

Oh - on the other question - you really don't need a designer to be local (in my opinion anyway) - you need a designer that will provide a design in great enough detail that any good builder will be forced to get it right........

I have never visited the vast majority of projects I've designed around the world - yet they all came out beautifully....... of course I do insist that my clients email me a ton of pictures of the build - as long as you get pictures to the designers they will spot immediately anything that a builder screwed up - and then the builder gets to fix their error....

Rod

Then this is what I would do; First you have not mentioned how many rooms and type of rooms...
Isolation may be at the Top of your list..If so Building A WALL is not hard..
What do you REALLY want & expect form this/these rooms???
Being small I would NOT spend much on design, There are many rooms used everyday that are NOT well designed and or acoustically treated rooms..But they ARE used and get by....
Have also been in some rooms that cost serious $$$$ and had serious oversights and mistakes...
You need SOME advice and input on ALL areas I mentioned above...
Have designed rooms around the world as well, and NOT being there is NOT a good thing...
The wiring is JUST as important as anything else...If you plan on using that low end cable that is on the pegboard...well...

I suppose it's all a matter of personal preference nose - I've never had an issue in any space due to not being there during construction...... that includes issues with cabling.

Best,

Rod

What? Personal preference?
HOW do you know things were done to YOUR specs...You Don't...
You missed my point...

You are mistaken sir.......I know exactly that things are done to my specifications.......

I insist on a ton of pictures throughout the build. This of the entire work - from every possible angle..... (it's actually a requirement in my contract with my clients) on a daily basis during construction.

Should I have even the slightest doubt about what I am seeing I then ask for a more detailed picture of a specific item from a specific angle.......

I know exactly what I designed - and designs are very VERY explicit.

I detail each and every connection (including low voltage and electrical feeds) in both plan view and sections - so that when I am finished with design the client ends up with a full set of drawings with large scale details of every connection (the detail drawings are generally 3" scale - although 6" and even full scale drawings for detail are not uncommon if the needs exists for detail at that level) - I detail not only the low voltage runs - but also the line voltage feeds.

It is not uncommon on small projects to have over 60 D sized sheets of drawings....... or over 100 sheets of E sized drawings on larger projects.

And those numbers do not include HVAC or Lighting drawings (which would push another 15 or 20 sheets of drawings into the picture in either case)

I also include design review of lighting and HVAC designed by others (in those cases where that is not a part of my work)to assure that no issues crop up in those designs....... and always include the isolation assemblies for HVAC in my contracts when those systems are designed by others........

Trust me when tell you that by the time I am finished detailing my drawings for a project I can tell at a glance when something is not right in the field simply by looking at a picture of the work in question.......... and I am not (in the least) shy about requiring a contractor to rip apart anything they might have screwed up so it can be corrected to what is indicated in my drawings..........

If you have any doubt in this regard - feel free to contact my clients and inquire as to the validity of my claims........ I am sure they will be happy to tell you what a PITA I am when it comes to these things..........

When you take the time to work through a build to that level of detail - nothing gets past you as long as your client provides the pictures you need to examine the work...... my eyes see the work exactly the same whether my examination is in the field or viewing a picture. And my clients want everything to be right seeing as they are the ones footing the bill for both my design and the build...... it isn't as if they (referring to my clients) are going to try to hide something from me......

So (again) with all due respect - I will simply agree to disagree with you in this case.........

Rod

I just went and took a look at the drawing set for a 1 room home theater I did for a client in Texas......... it was 73 sheets of drawings for Structural, Architectural, ID, HVAC, Electrical and Low Voltage wiring.

And that was for just 1 room........

That particular project came to mind because there were a lot of things the builder got wrong along the way - which means a lot of things they had to eat and fix for my client...... for example they screwed up the layout of the ceiling/roof framing - installed a 2x4 wall where they should have had a 2x6 frame - as well as a 2x4 wall where they should have had a 2x8 frame) and in all cases they completely disassembled all of the work and rebuilt it properly..... eating both materials and labor.

It's actually pretty easy to require a fix (at no cost to my client) when I can say "nope that's wrong - go look at sheet ID-5.1.a, Detail 4, and change it to match exactly what's detailed there"

It protects my clients from problems both acoustically and financially.....

I will (however) agree that it would be pretty much impossible without either that level of detail - and (or) daily pictures of the work in place..... and I take this to the extreme.

I have even required pictures (on projects where I did not have a real comfort level with the contractor doing the work) of the entire drywall install - shots of each layer - each caulk joint -for each surface of the room - and I want to see the backer rod in place prior to the caulk......

I am amazed at the number of times I gotten pictures of caulk joints where I can clearly see backer rod exposed after caulking is completed (which then requires removal and a repair of course) - although it doesn't generally take a contractor too many times of fixing things they screwed up before they begin making it a point to get things right - or (as was the case in that Texas HT) where the owner decides to make them gone and brings in a firm that is capable of executing the work the way it's detailed in the drawings........

Rod

My designs have it down to the screws...Big deal...You still missed my point...
So, your client is OK with taking CONTINUOUS pics...
How do they know WHAT is important and what is NOT???
Is the building continuing while you look at ALL these Pics?
There is not a quicker way to Piss off your builder than this...
You can NOT know...
Been around construction since the late 60's, know all about bad attitudes, "Been doing this for 40 years" ect statements...seen many eye rolls...

My clients are absolutely OK with taking pictures - they do it every day at the end of the day's work (or perhaps pay someone else to do it - the "who" of it getting done is meaningless to me - as long as it get's done)....... in fact they would be crazy not to.....

They (generally) don't have a clue - which is why it is exactly the way I explained it above - which was (just to save you time from looking for it)

Well the pics are taken the end of each day's work (with the exception of drywall - which is taken as the work is in progress - and in which case I do not allow multiple layers be installed in 1 day's time) - so (in general) no they are not working while the pictures are being taken........ and the owner emails them to me after taking them.........

Just for the sake of conversation let's say I received 100 pictures on any particular day...... unless every single piece of work (that was done in that day) was completely wrong - it would take me perhaps (at the outside) 30 minutes to review the pictures........ If I saw something wrong (or perhaps a couple of somethings wrong) it would take me another 10 minutes of so to grab the drawings and find the correct detail - and then a minute or so to shoot an email to the Owner requiring the correction......

Now - as far as anything related to a quick way to "Piss off your builder" goes....... I have no loyalty whatsoever to the builder or any of their contractors...........

What may or may not piss them off is neither my concern nor my problem...... in fact it never has been - this not when I design a project - nor when I manage projects.......

My loyalties belong to my clients and my clients alone......... if the builder can't follow a detailed set of drawings - that's their problem - if they are not staying on top of what their subs are doing - that too is their problem........

This is (by the way) pretty standard in the construction industry as a whole....... when project are designed it is expected that the contractors will actually build what was designed......... this is what they bid on - it is what they own........ and the owner has every right to demand as such....

And you are mistaken when you say "You cannot know"......... because not only can I - I do........

So have I - this is nothing new to me......... and I too have heard statements like that made when I called folks on things they screwed up - to which I generally reply "So you've been doing it wrong for that many years now?"........... and I could not possibly care less when it comes to someones "attitude"..... if they choose to have a bad attitude that is their problem - not mine - their attitude (or possible attitude) is meaningless to me - all that matters to me is their work.

Like I said - you can approach this however works for you - but you can't tell me what doesn't work when it comes to my designs and my approach........ this because it does work........

Like I said - you don't need to take my word for it - go ask my clients.......

Give Dennis Cham at Hit Productions a call......... Check in with the folks at Bunker Studios in NY........ or anyone else who I've designed projects for......... the fact of the matter is (and it is a fact) this is a very effective way of doing business........... regardless of whether you believe it to be the case or not......

Respectfully,

Rod

By the way Rod the "Been doing this for 40 years" was NOT what I say, but the guys on the job, don't like to be TOLD how to do something...
But then that means your client has to deal with these guys...Not good...
I think this has been enough about this...

Nose - I understood what you meant - I figured that was the case when I saw the quotation marks....... by the way - just for the record - I never EVER tell anyone how to do their jobs - and could actually get into trouble from a contractual point of view if I did....... I merely provide plans and details w/ tolerances - how they go about achieving the end goals (which relates to "means and methods") is their business not mine....... if what they built is out of spec it is out of spec....... period.

And my client having to deal with these guys is not an issue when they can very accurately point out the screw up that was made...... the folks did (after all) bid to plan and spec...

If you wanted to see some folks get pissed (and I mean really REALLY pissed) you should have been onsite during the finishes at Power Station New England.......

They (referring to the finish carpenters) installed (then removed and reinstalled) the wood finishes on the first wall in the main room either 4 or 5 times (don't remember exactly which - but I am absolutely certain it was more than 3 and less than 6) because the installation was outside of the specifications I provided them for the build....... which was a maximum variance of 1/16" slot width in any give slot measured at either end - with a maximum 1/4" variance for any random measurement of slot to slot (again slot ends in either case) in the wall as a whole....... however they never got more than 1/2 of that particular wall's finishes up before I caught the error.

And just to let you know I do not play favorites - in that particular case I was running the project for the GC - and those carpenters were on our payroll...... so we were eating the costs.......... and although it pissed them off to no end - by the time they did it the last time they realized that they were going to have to pay attention to detail and get it right - because I would have fired the carpenters and hired new ones long before they would have retired from the construction industry.

I have a long list of contractors and subs I've worked with over the past 40+ years - and they all say pretty much the same things about me........ which is that I am a real PITA when it comes to my projects - but I am a very fair PITA......

Have a great rest of your day,

Rod

As an engineering consultant, the notion that an acoustical consultant would consider themselves qualified to review my work for anything other than that which might concern an acoustical consultant, such as vibration isolation, is utterly preposterous. And yet I recently saw that an acoustical consultant was putting themself out there as being qualified not only to review my work, including for code compliance, but every other discipline's work as well, including architectural, structural, HVAC, plumbing, and fire suppression. As I was LMFAO, an old saying came to me, "jack of all trades, master of none". For this reason alone, they would not receive a professional recommendation from me, no matter how familiar or impressed I might be with their acoustical design skills.

I am familiar with all codes applicable to construction. I am knowledgeable of nearly all aspects of design and construction. That said, I am only qualified to design and review designs, and provide construction administration services for that which falls within my engineering discipline. Any professional - doctor, lawyer, architect or engineer - worth their salt knows better than to stick their nose where it doesn't belong and when to STFU, defer and refer to those who are truly qualified.

I provide construction administration services, and one duty is observing the work in progress for conformity to contract and code. Observing the work means seeing it with my own eyes, with each site visit fully documented with written site visit reports which might include photographic record of non-conforming work. I do not observe work in progress by looking at photographs. Perhaps for a acoustical consultant, photos would suffice. But for an acoustical consultant to suggest that they can observe the work of other disciplines for contract and code compliance through photographs is absurd, to say the least. Depending on the occupancy type, it is also a possible violation of the state laws which govern our professions, as well as the ethical codes to which we must adhere.

The other day I followed the link above and checked out Francis Mazzella's firm. One of the first things I noticed was that they seem to understand their limitations as acoustical consultants. They talk about putting together the appropriate project team of design consultants, which included professional architects, structural engineers, MEP consultants, etc. If you're building a professional studio, that's how it should be done.

Beware the Know-it-All, for I tell you, he or she does not know it all. Even within my own discipline, and after 46 years of doing this work, I do not know it all and never will.

Agreed.

All our designs are submitted to a Structural Engineer for review, alongside other consultants or Architects depending on where the studio is built in the world. Even if we have some competence in that area we are not Structural Engineers. We are Acoustics & Vibrations Engineers. We will explain to the structural engineer what our constraints are and what the system needs to be for us to meet our goals. We'll then work hand in hand so that both our needs are covered within the set constraints. With time you learn from one another how things work and you're able to submit more refined pre-project plans to the Structural Engineer to work on and he knows what you need, so you save time. Sometimes he won't modify plans at all. But there is no way a design of ours goes up without the greenlight of a structural engineer from A to Z.

We recently had to design 2 facilities in a seismic area. It was a lot of fun to interact with the local engineer and work with him. I went and sat down with him in his office a couple times and we went over the projects together. Learned a lot from each other.

Same goes for electrical. This is handled by an electrician to whom we explain the needs and constraints. Again, with time and experience you learn so you're better able to present the framework to the electrician. But again we will work hand in hand, respect and follow his instructions. He's an expert in his field.

And he won't come and tell my team how to float a studio bunker or how to design a studio shell.

You need these local engineers and technicians that know the local codes, local products and local "ways" of doing things. Can"t possibly know it all.

Monitoring projects on the Internet only via DropBox & photos etc has clear limits. For budget reasons there is often no way around it, and when working worldwide you can't spend half the year on planes. But to give an idea of how much we fly and move around, it has happened a few times that flight attendants recognized me from a flight to another.

You have to find the right balance with this. For us, this will be dictated by:

- Who the contractor is and if you worked with his team before
- If you have another trusted pair of eyes on site (a local structural engineer is a good contact for all the heavy shell work)
- Where / how far the studio is wrt to your HQ
- How complex the build is
- Budget
- How involved the client is in the project

Some projects we visited 40 times, some we visited 3 times. But we always visit, conduct tests and certify the studio. Some things we only install ourselves, like speaker decoupling Nacelles for example. These things are tricky cannot be installed by a team that has never done it before. Even with all the good will in the world, there is too high a chance they will mess up.

"jack of all trades, master of none".

Well said, Northward. I appreciate that you brought up seismic. As I primarily design electrical and life safety systems for critical and essential facilities located in seismically active areas, that's a big deal for me.

Sometimes a client will not want to pay for construction administration so we won't provide that service. I say, good luck to them. At the other end of the spectrum are major projects for which we've opened a project office in the city where the project is located. Such was the case for a new hospital for Stanford University in Palo Alto, CA in the late 1980s. All Seattle-based firms, the architect, structural engineer, MEP engineers - we all provided construction administration staff who lived and worked there. For the architect and MEP engineers, it was for the entire five year construction phase of the project.

Regarding electricians, I will say that there are some very fine design-build electrical contractors out there, and most don't have a licensed PE on staff, and yet they can still do great work. That said, I would offer caution about any design-builds whose sales spiel is providing a "code compliant system". Too many times that is 'code' for providing you the most minimally safe system possible and nothing more. Codes are not design manuals. In our country, the National Electrical Code is a safety document. It cares little to nothing about systems performing in a way that meets an owner's present or future needs.

Seattle,

I suppose that would depend on the individual.........

For example - the folks who did built Adriaen's Landing in Hartford, CT contracted me after doing some extensive headhunting nationwide for someone to oversee all of the project design for those facilities..........

What they found in their search was exactly what you (and Northward) refer to........ licensed engineers do not cross the lines of their disciplines... so although they interviewed over 100 folks who were interested in the position - they found none either capable or willing (if capable) of doing it all............. they then contacted me to see if I might be interested.....

I was brought on board and oversaw the entire design - picking up on a whole host of errors along the way by the licensed firms providing the various designs.......... including a ton of code violations.

The lead architect for BBG had this to say after we finished the project:

Now granted - BBG/BBGM were not the largest firm in the world when we worked together - - but they were a relatively large firm with offices in NYC, DC and China (much larger of course since joining forces with HOK) ...... and (of course) he is only speaking specifically to the architectural side of the design.

I have a bunch of structural/MEP and Civil engineering firms that utilize my services as a consultant when they run into situations that they need to find solutions for........ as well as contractors, hotel developers, etc.

For example I was brought on board by an MEP design firm to review their designs for a military project (The Pease Army Reserve Center) located in Portsmouth NH - and was then kept on to see the project through the shop drawing stages - during which time I ended up providing the coordination drawings to assure that we avoided all of the issues that generally raise their ugly heads when it comes to duct runs having pipes and conduits run through them...... issues related to structural steel elevations coordinating with various mechanical runs..... etc., etc., etc.

So yes -there really are some folks who are able to (successfully) cross lines - and whose services are sought after for that one`reason.......... I'm petty sure that these folks would not put up with me if I were not capable of this - I am really not all that easy to get along with........

Rod

Rod, a person employed by developers, general contractors or a construction management company as an unlicensed construction "project engineer" for whatever project has no design discipline line to cross. And, really, a construction project engineer in the role of overseeing design and reviewing all design documents isn't exactly a Glory Hallelujah, look at me moment. It's not a career achievement, it's what they do for a living. And what they do for a living in no way qualifies them to provide professional architectural and engineering services. And a developer seeking someone to oversee their project who interviews a hundred structural or MEP design engineers will likely suffer a little disappointment and might eventually even start looking for someone with that particular kind of expertise. I won't say they're a dime a dozen, but our own University of Washington School of Construction Management has for a long time been graduating a class each year of folk educated to do that kind of work.

Someone who puts themselves out there as an acoustical consultant and who also markets their ability to review all design disciplines' construction documents for code violations without qualifying that statement is standing on a line. Unless they are a licensed architect or engineer, they are simply not qualified to provide anything close to a peer-level review of any professional design disciplines' documents.

As for someone with a project engineering and acoustic design background who puts themselves out there as a designer of mechanical and electrical systems in one breath and who disses professional engineers with the next, that's standing on another line.