moving to new room where I can am able to do wall replacements but stuck with drop ceiling 2x2 grid.

I will add extra treatments as needed once I am setup as well.

Looking at replacing current tiles with .55 NRC tiles. My main concern is reflections and how much sound goes up and out. Mastering room.

thanks
D

Ceiling tiles will not help with "sound proofing" but use ridged fiberglass tile that are 2x2. You could also put fluffy fiberglass above it to act as a bass trap.

Thanks. The plan is 4-6" of fiberglass above the tiles

Due to the building I am moving to I need to keep the drop ceiling. I am my own 'neighbor' so its not critical. I just to do best I can

Did exactly that, Owens Corning 703 or whatever and Mineral wool over a dropped ceiling. A few suggestions:

Male sure you are putting the original tiles back up, or else hanging a faux ceiling under the drop array, because that stuff SHEDS like a mofo.

Ad make sure you wear thick gloves and about 2-3 long sleeve shirts, plus a thick hat, some working goggles and a mask or painting facemask that you don't give a $hit about because working with that stuff over your head is unCOMFORTABLE. Putting that ceiling trap into place over my whole live room was probably the most uncomfortable experience in my entire life. Itched for days later!

Worked like a freaking dream though once it was in place. Overall I'd still say "worth it"

I am able to get above there after we redo the walls. Would two layers of 24" R30 rolls do the same as two layers 703?

I would go with the R30 if going that thick. It will work VERY well. Way better then 4" of 703

Armstrong makes a ceiling tile called "Nubby", which is essentially OC 703 with a painted, perforated surface. It's as close as you can get to a pro, acoustically flat ceiling cloud using an off-the shelf product. If you use lots of fiberglass above it, as has been suggested, you'll get good results.

-Wes

Hey there Wes - been a while my friend........

Rod

Hey Rod - hope you're doing well. Missed you at AES this year.

-Wes

Hey Wes, nice to see to here!

Just to point out that RealTraps sells high-performance ceiling tiles:

RealTraps - Ceiling Tiles

The HF style is fully absorbent, and absorbs highs better than a painted or perforated surface. We also offer these in a "membrane" style for use around the perimeter of a ceiling where more bass trapping and less HF absorption is useful.

--Ethan

The Acoustic Treatment Experts

Wes,

Missed you as well my friend - tell Lisa I said 'hey"

Do you have anything going on that's gonna bring you to NYC in the near future? We could always make it a point to get together there (Bunker Studios is finally open - is your project there done now?)

Rod

Can you elaborate on this? I'm considering this exact decision myself. I was going to just place 9" to 12" of Safe n Sound or pink fluffy in ceiling clouds with some kind of "open grid" support below it and fabric to cover it all.

However, the use of acoustically transparent ceiling tiles seems like an intriguing alternative, if in fact truly acoustically transparent ceiling tiles can be purchased. The thing is, when I plug something like Nubby or Stratotile into the Acousticmodeling.com Porous Absorber Calculator, which I'm plugging into the calculator as (assumptively?) 1" of 30,000 rayl Stratotile with 9" or 12" of SnS/pink fluffy above it, I get worse results than just simply using 9" or 12" of Sns/pink fluffy with nothing more than fabric below it.

So this makes me hesitant to go with something like Nubby or Stratotile with SnS/pink fluffy above it instead of just going with SnS/pink fluffy with fabric below it.

Thoughts?

Acoustical Fields or Acoustic Fields? If the latter, be aware of Dennis Foley and his business. Read the first few posts in this topic, for example.

Good catch! Searching for "Acoustical Fields" in Google returns "Acoustic Fields."

My bad. I had no clue…
Are there public records on his convictions and what area of fraud it was for?

I was a cop for 15 years and have learned that anyone can be charged for almost anything…it’s the conviction that speaks louder towards truth( and that’s not always the truth either.)
I’ve also learned that youthful mistakes don’t necessarily define someone’s current character.

But I definitely appreciate a heads up when dealing with $10s of thousands of dollars in building costs!!

Yes his conviction and sentence is available in public record. I agree people will make mistakes some learn. However Denis Foley is out there essentially as a con artist, and spreader of non truths, even things that can easily be referenced and calculated.

So while he may not be commiting a crime technically, ge is certainly selling snake oil, and is an insult to the field of acoustics.

I too have heard of about the Acoustic Fields guy. So I wouldn't be interested in products from him/them, but I was still interested in which would be better between reputable ceiling tile makers and the straight insulation with cloth approach.

Mist of the people you've quoted in the various threads recently about this question aren't active on GS anymore.

Just compare data sheets. Fluffy insulation will be a better bang for the buck compared to any ceiling tile. Either way your going to need to insulate the drop ceiling so to me it's more about acoustic tile vs fabric.

You could also cut RB40 into sizes that fit the grid.

To be clear, pink fluffy or SnS is getting used regardless. It seems as if maybe I wasn't clear enough before so, to make it more clear, my questions revolve around trying to decide which is better to use as an acoustically transparent, aesthetically pleasing surface covering for the aforementioned pink fluffy/SnS insulation. This pink fluffy or safe n sound insulation will be used in a large ceiling trap.

The purpose of my prior posts involve trying to decide between fabric or a relatively thin, acoustically transparent ceiling tile, such as the Stratotile that I mentioned. The ceiling tiles would be nice from a rigidity standpoint, as I'd have to come up with an alternative to keep the pink fluffy/SnS from sagging if I decided to go the fabric route instead of ceiling tiles. However, I'm sure I can figure out something either way, as far as the sagging thing is concerned. What I'm primarily interested in here in this thread is figuring out which of the two options, fabric or ceiling tile, is the best, acoustically speaking, to cover the pink fluffy/SnS up.

So, if I'm going to be making a large ceiling cloud/trap of 9" to 12" of pink fluffy or SnS, which would be the best to cover it with, acoustically speaking, fabric or something like Stratotile?

The fabric would be better acoustically.

+1. Possibly cheaper too.

Why would the fabric be better than the ceiling tile?

Based on what I've plugged into the Porous Absorber Calculator:

1. Fabric scenario (no additional layer plugged into the calculator below the pink fluffy/SnS layer because the fabric is viewed as acoustically non-existent)
2. Ceiling tile scenario (1" of 30,000 rayl OC705/16,000 rayl OC703 type of ceiling tile)

I get results in the calculator that support the notion that pink fluffy/SnS covered by fabric is better (more absorbent in the low end) than pink fluffy/SnS covered by a ceiling tile like the Stratotile. The calculator agrees with what you're saying.

So I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying. I'm just trying to understand why this is the case? What is it about the fabric scenario that makes it perform better than the ceiling tile scenario?

The tile has a (somewhat) reflective surface. This is both from the plastic and the high density of the material.

I'm going to resist the urge to say something to you like "Did you not read what I wrote!", which is a common rude reply you like to give.

In any case, I specifically mentioned Stratotile in my previous posts.

https://vintageking.com/primacoustic...ling-tiles-blk

Stratotile does not have a plastic layer. It's covered in micromesh, which seems to be similar to a felt of some kind. I get that someone might assume a typical generic ceiling tile with the plastic covering, if no specific product was mentioned, but that's why I specifically mentioned Stratotile. I'm specifically comparing fabric to Stratotile or other similarly performing acoustic ceiling tiles like Armstrong Nubby.

As for the density part of this, I can see how something with 6 pcf density might cause some issues with reflectivity, but at what frequencies? I'm guessing not so much at the bass frequencies, and more so at higher frequencies and, if so, is that necessarily a bad thing? I'm inclined to think that, in my scenario, where I'm placing this cloud on an 8 ft ceiling, the answer is that I don't want ANY reflectivity, if I can achieve it, so I'm not necessarily disagreeing about the relative reflectivity of any kind of ceiling tile being a good thing compared to that of fabric.

Your logic is flawed. The internal reflection is at low frequencies.

If you do not like what I write, then ignore it. You have been reported for abusive behaviour.

On the ignore list. Thanks for playing. I don't have time to deal with your nonsense everytime you post another passive aggressive response. Acoustics knowledge or not, your people skills are lacking...

Seriously man, you do this to a lot of people and need to take a look in the mirror and figure out what is making you so angry.

Bye

Mod hat on: take it easy guys...

We probably don't know which frequencies but if acoustical transparency is the goal, the fabric is going to be way cheaper.

With regards to acoustical impedance, it's usually recommended here to not mix different insulation densities unless you're a pro at calculating that, so here it's hitting the high density tiles before pink/SnS

If Avare will stay out of threads I've created and stop replying to posts I've made, we're all good. I've asked him not to do so anymore before, but yet he continues....

I'm with you on the fabric probably being cheaper, but Guilford of Maine isn't exactly cheap. That said, I'm ultimately interested in what is going to be best acoustically, so I'm trying to explore that right now. I don't mind spending more to get better, at least to a point.

Correct, it would be hitting the 6 pcf Stratotile first. The Porous Absorber Calculator seems to agree with the idea that the Stratotile will perform worse than fabric, but I was trying to understand why, especially when Kyle Gushue was suggesting that plastic might be a good thing. So if plastic might be a good thing, then I suppose the additional density of the tile is what is making things worse? I'm not sure, but I'm trying to better understand this.