I reckon the big 141-143'ishhz peak is something I will have to live with as I can't treat the ceiling to a decent and soild enough job. Moving the mic really high towards ceiling does drop that peak a fair amount looking at the RTA graph with Pink Periodic noise.

It does seem to be worse by a few dbs on the right side.

I know when the panels are in the 70Hz-80Hz balances out more. Also get a bit more 90Hz-100Hz back if I pull the speakers further away from front wall.

The low high end area will always be the case due to rooms fully carpeted.

Please find attached some more measurements. Left speaker only this time as I gave up with the right for this test.

If I am looking right, these Result6's like further away overall from the front wall a bit better here in the room.

The 140Hz zone peak must be my ceilling, floor mode. If I move the mic up to ceiling the 140hz peak drops, 70-80hz rises. If I put the mic bang on the floor, both peaks even out.

It looks like the double whammy, a modal peak and SBIR non resonant reflections.

You could try to treat the peak with a minimum phase EQ, but it won't solve the SBIR peaks and nulls. You can also buy a couple of subwoofers and high pass them above 150hz, but you have to be careful not to drive the other modes and get stronger peaks and decays.

You will probably need both.

Hi,

Thanks for the input again. Yeah, that 140Hz zone is annoying. I reckon I'm stuck with that here for the time being, unless I lay on the floor and mix!

Did you take a look at all the treatment out .mdat files I done today? If you wouldn't mind if you get a spare 5, that would be great and a big help. I'm realizing I can't attack the 140Hz zone peak, but I am pretty sure the panels I have may be able to tidy up some of the other problems there will be!

I am just at a loss of what the best spots are too treat in the room. Bare in mind this is not an average rectangle or same build walls room. I keep thinking the right side may need different treatment to the left, being the right corner is soild, the left corner single plaster board airing/water tank cupoard with door. Then the right side wall has a large window, the left side wall soild.

I am also thinking the lack of sub bass I always notice is maybe to do with being upstairs, bass leaking through the floor and thin fibre board ceiling into the loft? I've never heard sub bass here. Maybe explains why my decay times aren't too long in the spectrogram?

Cheers!

Is the woofer height higher or lower than the middle the ceiling height? If not, might be worth moving the speakers up or down it putting the speakers upside down.

Hi Kyle,

Thanks for jumping in on my post. Appreciated!

The woofer is only a few inches above midway. My stands are 36" tall. I have put 6 small natural stone tiles and iso puck minis under each speaker too try raising a bit. Added quite a bit of weight, making moving fun!

When using 4 tiles underneath, it made the sound almost sound like the track/mix was shooting down, like I was looking down at a picture, it was weird. Didn't get that with 6 tiles or no tiles underneath. No tiles underneath, I'm not on PMC's axis point, which is midway between driver and tweeter in the manual.

I put a speaker in the corner on the floor for a test, wow I could hear bass! First time ever here and I've been in this room for a fair few years. I didn't take measurements though, maybe I should of.

Most people when they are in my room with my treatment up say direct, clear, too bright and also bass light. I say punchy and middy, with no real low, lows. Bit like a 60's or early 70's sound to me vs a modern sub heavy type.

If anyone could please take a look at the .mdat files I did without any treatment yesterday, that would be a big help. I am trying to read them myself, just to work out what is a good starting postion, but getting confused as to what is actually going on, a good spot ect. All I keep seeing is that huge 140Hz zone peak keep popping up and a low sub low end.

Further away speakers are from front wall, I get 90Hz-100Hz back, closer it dips a fair bit. Not sure I'm reading that correct though also, when I tried measuring both speakers together in mono, it shows my rooms low bass and a bigger dip at 90Hz-100Hz.

I didn't actually attach them to the ceiling. I made a kind of wooden frame. The traps sit on top.

The nearer to the front wall the higher up in the spectrum that dip will be at other frequencies expense. Further away and the frequency of the dip will go down making it harder to fix with absorbers.

My cloud of 10 monster traps actually make very little difference to the dip in the low and also as regards frequency response generally. They do however control the decay times and give me much better phase. Higher up they do tame a 1kHz peak. The dip in the low seems smoothed out as in not as narrow but it's nearly just as deep as without treatment.

Ah, got you. That sounds cool. I've been joist hunting, I may be able to get 2 Monster traps up between my mix spot and speakers, instead of my previous one. I can leave a 7" gap. I've been using chain and hooks. Doubt 2 's enough though.

Ah, so maybe speakers back 4" away from the front wall is actually better then. I've tried 6" , 8" 13", 15" and a few inbetween.

When measuring distance, I take it people mean from speaker back plate, not front baffle? My new Result6's due to design are a fair bit longer than my old Adam P11a's.

I'd pick the one where the apparent gap between 90hz and 120hz is the least expressed, so in your measurements 'left only' i'd pick first or second measurement.

If ever needed the peaks could be tamed with EQ if you don't get them down with treatment alone.

Retaining one with dips will never allow EQ to rectify and you'll need a lot of treatment to overcome.

Hi Tom,

Thanks for the input again.

Going by sound alone, further away does sound better to my ears. Hearing the 90Hz-120Hz freqs makes overall listening nice, up close to front wall seems to sound hard, maybe beacuse the front wall is soild external.

The 13" mark seems best so far. I do seem to lose a bit more low, but I don't have much hear to begin with, so used to it!

Today I will re fit my panels/treatment one by one. The right and left side are defo different, so I was thinking of treating them differently being the right side seems to be more bassy due to being a soild corner. The left side corner with airing cuboard made of single thin single plaster board in corner, not so much.

Cheers for taking the time to help so far everyone!

Right, after more hours I now have all my panels fitted back. Made a few small changes to layout and probs will settle on speakers 12" away from front wall. When I go any closer the dip at 90Hz-100Hz gets worse, plus things sound a bit hard edged to me. Means my lows dip a bit more minus say 70Hz though. Too be fair, I've never heard lows here!

I went-

4x GIK Tri Traps in the front corners
1x GIK 4A Alpha's side walls 1st refection (one is on a keyboard stand as there's a window. Got them around the same height either side.)
1x GIK Monster between seat and speaker on ceiling (7" gap, chain and hooks.)
2x GIK Monsters on back wall (fixed above a bed)
1x 3" panel covering a radiator.

I still have 2x4" soild frame corner traps left, a 242 and a few small 2" panels. The back wall corners I didn't notice much with the 4" in. Might double up the front floor tri's with them.

Please find attached a few new measuemrents. Only went for left speaker today as a guide. I will never get perfect symmetry here anyway! The right speaker is set to the same distances from wall ect. Some of the upper mids may be the bass drum and snare adding. Had to keep them in the room. I would normally do that anyway. Taking out the toms I did notice a difference though!

I have just been listening in the new 12" away spot. It's probs more 13" on a remeasure. Overall, sounds OK. Nice to finally here 90Hz-100Hz. The panels defo do help with the upper low mids and mids, also a touch on 80Hz, so Tom was right on what range the GIK panels I have touch.

I can hear and now see, I do have a pretty bass light room below 70Hz. It doesn't sound like a massive null, but is light.

Above 300Hz looks pretty jagged when zoomed in on the waterfall. Not sure what's causing that. Windows, soild walls? I have 1x GIK 242 and 3x 2" panels left. Maybe they might help, if anyone knows where to try? I am struggling reading the time domain, ms type things.

Cheers!

I tried changing the height a tad. Due to my stands being 36", didn't have a lot of options, talking 3" difference. I did hear and saw a tiny bit more bass when I went lower, talking a few dbs if that. A 70-80Hz peak got a bit bigger which makes sense.

I think my room is just naturally bass light below 68Hz.

Lower I am off the Result6's axis as stated in manual which is between the drive and tweeter. Sounds a bit different now.

I'll stick with the tiles underneath and ISO puck minis I think and swallow the tiny bass loss.

Cheers for the input!

Cool

I have done a lot more testing, including flipping my setup 90 degrees so I am facing the large wall side with the large window, that was a lot worse over all, bass nulled a lot more, but the 142Hz big peak dropped a bit.

Sticking with the short wall. I just have a question, my centre seems to be shifting to the left, notice it a fair bit when hitting mono on vocals, snares ect.

What solves it quick, is dropping the volume on left speaker by a few db's or panning master to the right around 17-20%.

I have tried 2 different DAC's, switching cables, no luck. Headphones sound fine. Guessing it's my room! The left side Is the airing/water tank cuboard that bulges out 6" , plus small window,. Right side solid wall corner with large window further down.

Is dropping the volume on left speaker OK to do? Seems a better way than panning. My room is so non symmetrical! If it helps, I can post pictures.

Cheers!

I thought I would upload todays measurements. As you can see, Left and Right are off. Probs whats causing my centre to shift to the left.

Just tried experimenting with toe in. These Result6's seem to be quite wide.

I have my speakers the same distance between and from the front wall, which is 8ft 5" wide. Trouble is, the area I sit in is around 9ft becuase of the airing cuboard in the front wall corner sticks out around 6", meaning the speakers area is more narrow.

Anyone have any ideas on what would be a good move too try next?

Sorry for all the posts. Been at this for 4 weeks now! Starting to go around in circles now.

Cheers!

The 1khz-8khz is the crucial range in what your ears use for directionality. When mixing is what helps us determine things like pan position, levels, delays, reverb decay tails and obviously how we bring things closer or further away with EQ.

This is why symmetry of wall construction, treatment of a control room and speaker location is very important ( as well as maintaining very low NR noise levels in the room itself) and why you hear people here harp on it a lot.

Comparing your Left and Right measurement in this range, the biggest difference is the left side doesn't show a floor reflection of energy off the floor and the right one does (big spike of energy around 1.3ms). Its actually normal to have a spike of energy off the floor from free standing monitors, but normally its from both speakers, not just one.

Also near the speaker and between the measurement mic, whatever surfaces are immediately near need some kind of solution ( i see a lot of diffraction around the tweeter and could be the design or if you have something right near it like other speakers or computer screen they need to be moved out there).

Another thing that has become pretty clear in both measurements is that you need the correct treatment on the ceiling.

Lastly when you Filter the ETC around 1Khz-3khz, it shows you need the right treatment on the side mid walls, side back walls and some kind of treatment on the backwall.

You basically need a better overall treatment approach/plan period, because this area is usually the easiest to control and its not happening well enough right now...like it should.

The worse part is that your decay in this range (1khz-8khz) right now is already too short for a room your size. If you noticed i didn't even touch the issues in the mid range and serious issues below 200hz (the huge modal peak at 141.7hz is a true eye and ear sore).

Hi,

Really appreciate you taking the time to get back and for looking at the measurements.I

Man, I maze well give up and use headphones! Where do I start to try and fix this lol.

A bit annoying my panels aren't doing much then, I thought they would at least help.

The room is a right mission as no one wall is really the same. On the sides, to the right of me a bit further down is a massive window, the left side a soild wall. The front wall has a small window above the left corner,and airing cubboard with single plasterboard in that corner too. The right side Is solid corner.

Would the decay time in the 1khz-8khz be due to fully carpet floor?

Yeah, that model peak I really notice. Almost distorts. Makes upper bass, Rhodes ect freqs pop out. I take it that won't get better without a lot of treatment?

The panels I have are, if you can call it treatment now!

4x GIK tri traps (6" thick)
3x GIK Monster traps (7" thick)
2x GIK 4a Alphas (4" thick)
4x Custom made 2" panels
2x 4" custom made corner traps

Any ideas where to start? I am just on the room sim in REW. I may move my speakers closer, and closer to wall. Would re positioning even help in my circumstance?

Thanks again for taking the time to take a look! I did ask a member at GIK for help, didn't really get any help other than, "pretty good for minimal treatment. It's not the room, maybe I don't like the new speakers" He probs was looking at someone elses measurements!

Without the panels my room does seem to sound worse (if it can be!!!) and more boxy.

Another switch up today! Flipped my setup 180 degrees. Only thing I've never tried. So much moving! Ran out of time for measuring tonight. Will do tomorrow.

This way, takes me away from the front wall with left airing cuboard corner and small window behind left speaker. Only thing now, my right corner has the door enterance, but it's a bit behind the speaker front baffle and a fair bit of room to get in!

Still have to deal with the large side wall window! That's always going to happen unless I face it and lose length.

Like Thrillfactor said you need more treatment and better treatment. Your also sitting too far away which narrows stereo imaging. If you're speakers are 8.5' apart you should be sitting about 7-8' from them. You could try pulling the speakers off the wall so your sitting a more proper distance away from them which could make bass response worse. Or leave them up against the front wall and space them closer so your sitting in a symmetrical section of the room.

Ultimately if you absolutely had to trimming one speakers gain is better than an imbalanced image, but definitely not ideal, and really a last resort IMHO.

You might consider covering the surfaces between you and the speakers completely (walls/ceiling) as a starting point with what you have, and then the back wall with whatever you have left over, or at least 2 panels in the middle.

The response you got from GIK is one of the main reasons I'm critical of them. Do they even have a professional acoustician on staff?

Hi,

Thanks for the input.

Sorry, the speakers aren't 8.ft .5" wide apart, that's the front wall width. Speakers are 3 ft apart, I sit around 3ft away. I go close and narrow because my rooms tiny! The flip today gives a tiny bit more wiggle room.

Ah ok my mistake.

No worries. I have posted so many posts in this thread, things are bound to get muddled!

I am up for seeing tomorrow if the flip around has improved anything.

I'm not a mixing engineer or pro by any means. Just someone who lives for making, recording music and mixing our collectives work. I send off bits to a mastering engineer. Would be great if I could nail even a small improvement in this Frankenstein room!

After an absolute mission joist hunting and swearing, plus my really thin fibreboard ceiling, managed to finally get a 4ft by 4ft cloud up. It's 2 GIK Monster traps so 7" thick with around a 10" air gap. Had to go 1 0" due to me salvage hunting for spare chain and strong wire!

It's a tiny bit infront of me and above the front of speakers, so pretty much cool enough from research. I have to go by the joists!

I have the tri traps in front wall corners. My new layout means I have to move them to get in and out, but all cool. Used to it!

For the 1st reflection point at side wall, is it OK to use GIK 4A Alpha's? Their 4" thick, pretty weighty. Have a thin slotted wooden panel on the front. It's that, or 3 ft by 2ft custom made 2" panels. Just remember I have a large window to the left of me

The back wall, I have a monster trap on a keyboard stand straddling the airing cupboard left corner, the bed is along the back wall now too. I might even straddle a 4" corner trap on top of bed for right corner?

I still have 4, 2" custom panels left. I used the GIK 242 to cover the radiator length ways.

Hoping somethings get better on new measurements tomorrow!

Like I say, not after a top pro result as it's a standard UK bedroom. Just someone who lives for creating music!I

Cheers!

Keep the symmetry as much as you can. So if you put a trap on the left you need one on the right etc
Other than that make a real effort to get the speakers in their optimal position. Your listening position is determined by how wide your speakers are apart. Make a perfect equilateral triangle. The listening position will be around six inches in from the tip of the triangle. Measurement mic at the tip of the triangle. Absorption in smaller rooms can never be thick enough. Get your reflection points right and absorb them. Set up what you have got now and keep detailed notes on the measurements and enjoy!

Later on get a Trinnov. ; )

Hi Carl,

Cheers for your input again. Appreciated!

There's no way I can get perfect symmetry here, pretty impossible without chopping, changing around door entrance and blocking in windows/s. As I say, it's a bedroom at the end of the day. I actually love natural light and dreaming on ideas looking out the window!

On the window (set back with window seal ect), I'll just have to lean panels that side.

I got fed up of using drums, samples and loops, so brought a small jazz kit a few years back. I have to take that into account too, plus a 88key heavy wooden key keyboard that's pretty much non moveable and too too it off a single bed!

Tiny room rammed to it's limit, but everyone finds it cool and a laugh to jam in!

Never seen Trinnov, the price!!!