Hi guys,

After being ignored by “Technical Customer Support” for over a month now and a very underwhelming response on the official Steinberg Forum, I was wondering if anyone would be able to help me on here.

When I "Emtpy Trash" Cubase crashes very frequently. After loading the project again a window appears looking for missing files - the ones that were trashed. I record a lot of live drums/audio and need to empty the trash frequently and this process does not make for a pleasant experience when clients are in the control room or for my nerves for that matter.

I contacted Oscar Bonomi at Technical Customer Support (I use this term loosely) and I received a response saying "Trashing your preferences could help".
This is pretty generic advice that can be found on most forums. I had reported this problem multiple times previously with no success and I wanted to get to the bottom of what exactly is causing these crashes once and for all. I communicated this to Oscar sending him crash reports in the hope of a bit more of a personal response. To which he replied.

“Cubase has got more of 5000 functions, sometimes it could happen its preferences causing some clashes between its functions for different reasons.”

Aside from the poor English, yet again a pretty impersonal, blanket statement response.

So anyway - I trashed my preferences, the problem goes away for a few instances of "remove unused media" and "Empty Trash" and then the crashes return shortly after. I have trashed my preferences every day last week just to finish tracking a project – which to me is unacceptable. I make a living recording music and I simply don't have the time for this process to become a daily occurrence.

I have emailed Oscar 4 times over the last month asking how I would go about troubleshooting the problem and I'm being completely ignored.

In a nutshell Cubase’s support towards my problem is ‘Cubase has a lot of functions, it could be a lot of things – trash your preferences, if that doesn't work - you're on your own. If you’re not happy about this we’ll just ignore you until you go away’.

Quite clever really, as the silent treatment does start to work and I just live with it, but I'm hoping you guys may be able to help me on here.

I'm using Cubase 7, 32 bit (but this also happened on Cubase 6.5)

Mac Pro
OS X 10.8.2
Processor: 3.33 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon
Memory: 6 GB 1333 MHz DDR3

Thanks

Hi - sorry you are having a problem with tech support. Where are you? I don't know Oscar; I assume he is not in the US?

As for your problem, I remember seeing this pop up from time to time as far back as '08/v4 on the old (blue) forum. The problem seemed - for a few, anyway - to stem from trying to empty too many files at once. What is 'too many'? No idea. But I can tell you that the HD's cahce may factor in here.

So, when you say Cubase crashes, does it actually crash with an error, or does it just (seemingly) hang? What is the speed and cahce of your HD? Are you on a laptop (with a 5200 rpm HD, perhaps)? Are the files on the same drive as Cubase and the OS? And of course, the big Q: how many files (approx) are in the trash when you go to empty? Is it 20, or is it like 500?

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for the response!

I am based in London, UK. I really don't mean to sound overly dramatic but my experience with Cubase support is, anything they do not want to hear they simply ignore. I originally sent a support request in November 2012 regarding this problem and hit a similar wall when the response was "this doesn't happen on our system" and then I gave up.

I have emailed Oscar every week since April 9th, all ignored. I sent a new support request asking how I would make a complaint 4 days ago, which has been ignored too.

Yes it actually crashes, (doesn't hang) and comes up with the "Cubase Quit Unexpectedly" message and bunch of technical code. From time to time I save the crash report in the hope someone in the know may want to look at it (Technical Support).

As mentioned above I'm running a Mac Pro, with two hard drives, one for applications/OS and one strictly for the recording of actual audio (standard).

7200 rpm, 32MB Cache (For application/OS)

7200 rpm, 16MB Cache (For Audio)

It doesn't tend to matter how many files it's trying to empty, it seems like it doesn't like doing the process itself. Maybe 1 in 10 times it won't crash but to me 1 crash in 500 would still be one too many, I make a living doing record production.

I'm completely happy to pursue the idea of the hard drives being a factor, but one thing I would like to add is that this has happened on different machines, and also when I was running Cubase 6.5.

I used Nuendo 4 on a budget home made PC for 4 years and it used to handle this process without any problems, whether it be a PC, Laptop etc which leads me to believe the fault is program related.

Many thanks again Jeff!

Do you empty trash and remove from pool or actually trash the files as well?

Hi ErikG,

Basically I'll do a lot of comping and file bouncing such as editing drums, once edited, I bounce them down and consolidate them which creates new files and then the old drum files become "unused media", then I try and remove the old drum files "empty trash" and it'll crash. The "Cubase Quit Unexpectedly" message appears along with a bunch of technical code.

I restart Cubase, reload the project and the "resolve missing files" windows appears looking for the trashed files, as if they should still be in the project/pool.

So it does delete the files I want it to delete, but it's the crashing and me praying that everything is ok when the projects loads back up with clients staring at me, that I'm not a fan of!

Hey guys,

This may be a little late, but I ended up finding a work around (not solution/fix) Thought I'd post it, in case it helps anyone else.

When I'm dealing with the above situation, I "remove unused media" and before emptying the trash I close the project, re-open it and then I can successfully empty the trash without it crashing.

I'm no technical expert but I'm guessing Cubase is holding onto the files that have been removed, for some unknown reason, and when I try to trash them it doesn't like it and craps itself. If I shut down the project and reload it, Cubase seems to have let go of them allowing me to delete them without the crashing.

It's not a fix for the problem, and it is quite annoying when clients are telling me "I've already opened that song" (I have a 42" mirror display screen on the wall) when I'm shutting down and immediately opening the same projects all the time to perform the above process.

Anyway, an acknowledgement from Steinberg would have been nice but then again their support team would have to actually try to do what I'm doing before dismissing it.

Hello MRSTUDIOS,

I am sorry that you are having such a problem and that you had a bad experience with the support, Oscar is one of our support representatives at Steinberg Headquarters in Hamburg, his a specialist of our score editor and also in charge of the Italian Support I will assume it is just a misunderstanding as he is quite a good supporter.

I will love to help you.
I have some questions: Why are you using the 32 bit version of Cubase?
Do you have the same problem if you use the 64 bit, are you saving your data on an external HD? If you change the location do you have the same problem?

Can you give me a step by step guide to reproduce the error?

Best regards,
GN

its probably has to do with the file system not giving the program authorization to skip the system trash can and system prompt crashes program.

apple hfs non-journaled is what your system should be running on.

what file systems your drives are?

hfs+ will not allow direct deletion from inside a program without the use of an elevated system call. (this is what my programmer said)

Hi Guillermo,

Thanks for the response - To be honest I've found on multiple occasions if the solution isn't:

Trash preferences
Update Cubase
Update your OS

Steinberg's support promptly comes to an end. It's almost like speaking to a robot, problems is are never directly addressed and you get advice that almost seems like it's been copy and pasted from a script - kinda like speaking to an automated service rather than another human being who is actually listening.


A lot of what I'm about to say in response to your questions I have already written above, so please forgive me if I'm not already filled with optimism.

I use 32 bit because I use 32 bit plugins, again I feel we are dodging the point here. I used Nuendo 4 for years on 32 bit and this never happened.

As mentioned above I'm running a Mac Pro, with two hard drives (internal), one for applications/OS and one strictly for the recording of actual audio (standard).

7200 rpm, 32MB Cache (For application/OS)

7200 rpm, 16MB Cache (For Audio)

But this happens on both Mac and PC, so trying to put it down to hard drives and file locations feels like a step in the wrong direction.

I do a lot of comping and file bouncing such as editing drums, once I've made my edits, I bounce them down which creates new files. I now no longer need all the bad takes and which I'll send to the trash via selecting "remove unused media", then I'll select "empty trash" and Cubase will crash. The "Cubase Quit Unexpectedly" message appears along with a bunch of technical code.

I restart Cubase, reload the project and the "resolve missing files" windows appears looking for the trashed files, as if they should still be in the project/pool.

The program is obviously capable to performing the task as I proved in my worked around above.

Thanks

Hi,

Thanks for the input.

This happens both on Mac and PC so it would lead me to believe the problem is more universal.

The program is capable of performing the function, I just want to know why I have to close and re-open the project to do it!

Come back to me Guillermo, please don't say you're like the others. I can't get hurt again!!

Hello,

No, I was working on it
But when I asked you for a step by step guide I was expecting something like what I am posting bellow, therefore we had to try all possible combinations.
I just got back from the support 20 minutes ago I wanted to have other suggestions and a second opinion; This is what we found, or what we've managed to reproduce.

On My System:
My Mac is just 3 months old.
MacBook Pro
Processor: 2.3 GHz Intel i7
Memory: 8 GB
Graphics: GT 650M 512 MB
Software: OS X 10.8.5
Cubase 7.0.6 Build 2230 (64 bit)
Cubase 7.0.6 Build 2230 (32 bit)

I could not reproduce it.
What I did:
- Open Pool and go to Audio.
- Selected all the files and pressed delete.
- On the pop up Window I clicked on "Remove"
- Then it ask me "Move selection to the Trash or remove it from the pool?
I selected "Trash"
- I right click on the trash icon inside the pool and selected Empty Trash
- It asks: "Do you want to erase the files from hard disk or only remove clips from pool?
- I clicked on "Erase"

Cubase deleted the files and nothing happened.
(We it deleted the files as expected but didn't crashed)

Now on a different Mac from the Support we could reproduce it:
System:

Model: Macmini 5,2
Processor: 2.5 GHz Intel Core i5
Memory: 6 GB
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 2
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 3 MB
Mac OS x 10.8.4

We followed the exact same steps as on my computer and Cubase did crashed.
But when we deleted the files directly from the pool without sending them to the trash Cubase didn't crash. (The problem with this, is that Cubase will not remove them from the audio folder, you will have to delete them later using the Mac OS X finder)
Then we Repaired the permissions of the Mac and tried it both ways and Cubase didn't crashed.

Have you repaired the permissions?
Please go to:

Applications > Utilities > Disk Utility > Select your HD > click on Repair Disk Permissions.

We also noticed that if we do not delete the audio from the project first, then Cubase crashes.
Do you delete them from the project first?
If you could tell me exactly what you do, like I just did, would be great, also if you could add your system specs on your signature, it will help others and me help you in the future.

Best regards,
GN

Hi Guillermo,

Sorry for the delayed reply, I have been very busy this week.

Firstly let me thank you for going away and trying to chase down this problem. I'll attempt to try and communicate exactly what it is that produces this problem in the same way you have.

What you need to do:
- Set up 12+ microphones and spend a good few hours recording drums.
- Once you have enough material - Edit the drums, like this Tutorial: Multitrack drum editing in Cubase 6 - YouTube
- Select all edited regions and bounce them (audio - bounce selection) so they are new consolidated files.
By this amount of time most drummers would have made enough mistakes that you are building up 100's of bad takes, not needed files. I want to delete them.
- Open Pool and go to Audio.
- Right click and on the pop up Window click on 'Remove Unused Media' Then it asks me "Move to Trash or remove it from the pool? I select "Trash". All files that are not used in the project window will now go to the trash.
- I right click anywhere inside the Pool window and select Empty Trash
- It asks: "Do you want to erase the files from hard disk or only remove clips from pool?
- I click on "Erase"
-The message "Cubase Quit Unexpectedly" appears along with a lot of technical code and it crashes.
-I restart Cubase, reload the project and the "resolve missing files" windows appears looking for the erased files, as if they should still be in the project/pool.

As said before, the only way I can get around this is:

- Open Pool and go to Audio.
- Right click and on the pop up Window click on 'Remove Unused Media' Then it asks me "Move to Trash or remove it from the pool? I select "Trash". All files that are not used in the project window will now go to the trash.
-Close project, re-open Project
- I right click anywhere inside the Pool window and select Empty Trash
- It asks: "Do you want to erase the files from hard disk or only remove clips from pool?
- I click on "Erase"
- NO CRASH,

I repaired disk permissions, but again this same behaviour happens on both Mac and Windows so I really think this is not the issue causing this.

Hello,

Thank you for the information, I have sent it to the QA and a bug report has been opened (R-10895), lets hope it can be fixed on time for the next maintenance update.

Best regards,
GN

Great, I also have some more information that I think is the direct source of the problem.

I have attached three images below to help better understand what I believe to be the problem.

Here you can see the audio pool. I have "Removed unused media" to the trash. Notice how every item in the trash has a RED 'R' in the status column. I'm not sure why this is - none of the tracks are armed to record. If I was to "Empty Trash" and "Erase" now it would definitely crash. I believe this is directly caused by this Red 'R' in the status column.

[IMG][/IMG]

As I discussed in my work around solution. Instead of "Empty Trash" and hitting "Erase". I restarted the project, note how now all the Red 'R' in the status column is now gone.

[IMG][/IMG]

I now hit "empty trash" and then "erase", it does it without any problems/ no crashing.

[IMG][/IMG]

So I think it's fair to say that this Red 'R' in the status column is the culprit.

Hello,

The "R" is not the cause, It only indicates that the clip has been recorded in the currently open version of the project. This is useful for finding recently recorded clips quickly.
The problem only happens when you try to delete from the hard disk.
And as I mentioned before it only happens on some particular systems, as I was never able to reproduce such behaviour.

Best regards,
GN

I respectfully disagree,

If like you say the "R" indicates that the clip has been recorded in the currently open version of the project, obviously Cubase is holding onto these recently recorded files where, it should be letting go of them.

So I believe when I close and re-open the project, Cubase no longer deems them as "recently recorded" and let's them be erased. Dismissing the "R" subject/point, like it's completely unrelated and not playing a factor in the crashes, seems a little obtuse.

This happens to me as well, 32 bit Cubase 6 on Windows 7 (also 32 bit), it usually happens when I have a a LOT to delete. Why am I running 32bit? Nuendo 96/52 only has 32bit drivers, and a few of the plugs I like to use are 32 bit as well. That and I'm really comfortable in my workstation, it's backed up like crazy (every night!)!

I throw everything in the trash, save and close the session and reopen, THEN delete and all is well. 32MB cache on a 2TB sata audio drive, fwiw. But it does happen if I have significant amounts to delete, 6 or 7 channels at 44.1/24 is enough to get it to choke..

Additionally, I might report that it would seem to only happen when I'm editing drums (I just flung like 16 bass track takes on a very demanding song out without issue), which may indicate trying to delete the files while a few of them have hitpoints associated might actually be the issue. Next time I'm editing drums (hopefully never, and you can all die without ever knowing) I'll try this and see if it makes a difference.

Ho. Ho. Ho.

Hi Crunch,

The hit point theory is an interesting one but I've had this happen during any sort of tracking.

Any news on this Guillermo? It's been over 6 months and no sign of a fix being attempted!

Hello,

This has been fixed since Cubase 7.5.10.

Best regards,
GN

I upgraded to Cubase 7.5 on your recommendation and low and behold it's not fixed, I was tracking drums today and built up quite a lot of unused audio in the project, I went to try empty the trash and it crashed, the only thing different about this problem since I upgraded is it my bank account is £40 less than it was before.

As before closing and re-opening the project and the emptying the trash is my work around.

Guillermo - when you talk about this problem being resolved, were you referring to the pdf file "Issues solved" section "R-10895 AUDIO: Emptying the trash on the Audio Pool no longer leads to an unresponsive state of the application." because I don't call a total crash/system failure an "unresponsive state"

ra

I ALWAYS move the Cubase preferences file after I update/upgrade.
Cubase will build a new file and you can port anything over to the new folder you need. Just a thought, worth a try

Hi shanabit,

I'm not sure why/how this would help with the long standing problem of Cubase crashing on trashing audio?

Im just grabbing at straws here. I guess we have to do the workarounds till they fix it. In Steinbergs case this could mean NEVER unfortunately

I'm not sure how trashing prefs fixes half the things it does, but it certainly seems to fix quite a few..I know you already trashed prefs without success at an earlier point but if you haven't done it since the update or while updating as Shanabit suggested it's surely worth a try??

Hello,

I was going to recommend that as well, and also a fresh install.
Have you tried uninstalling the app then installing the full 7.5 directly and then upgrading it to 7.5.20?

Also, please make sure that the audio pool should point to the original location,E.g. like the vst sound folder)

EDITED: Please don't forget that I recommended you to download the Cubase 7.5 Trial and running it before you purchased the upgrade.
Now it makes me think it might be something on your system.

Best regards,
GN

I spent my morning uninstalling and doing a fresh install of 7.5 and then 7.5.20, I trashed preferences - everything, everyone has suggested. To be honest this is the same advice I was asked to try with Cubase 6.5 two years ago.

It's still crashing.....

If you think it might be something on my system, please feel free to suggest something - I'm all ears!
But as I said before, I've tried on multiple machines, cross platform and this bug is consistent. I'm still running a version of Nuendo 4 where I can perform this task without a glitch on the same exact computer. I swear we've had this conversation before!

I have a crash report I can send to you? I've tried to send many of them before to support and I have never been given a response, surely there must be information within it to help explain why the crash happens?

Hello,

Yes, please send me the crash log, I will then reopen the case. You can either attached it to the thread or send to me via email I will provide you an email address where you can send it.

Best regards,
GN

Cubase 7.5.30 Update - Steinberg's second try at fixing this problem that they've named

"R-10895 AUDIO: Emptying the trash on the Audio Pool no longer leads to an
unresponsive state of the application."

Still not fixed, nothing has changed, I honestly don't know what else I can do.....

Guys if you're planning on purchasing Cubase, especially using OSX - take my advice, buy something else - it's a bottomless pit, soon enough they will end development of Cubase 7.5 like they did with 7 and forcing me to buy into Cubase 8 to see if it's been fixed. This has been happening since Cubase 6.