Are these really as close to Neve as you get??

Anyone used Ward Beck before? Thoughts?

Ward Beck was known for building broadcast gear. While probably not audiophile like a Grace, there's probably some undiscovered tone floating around.

A friend of mine that worked at the local NBC tv affiliate was constantly repairing Ward Beck mixers they had at the station.

Another fun 1073 clone is the Chameleon Labs 7602. I've been using one for the last couple of months and really dig it.

I got mine for $625 with the power supply so there is a huge cost difference compared to Vinech.

Thanks for the input.

The Chameleon is way less than the ones I've been checking out. What have you used it on? What's the verdict?

Check out the Vintage Audio CA73....

Just do a search... this topic has been covered more than any other on the forum...

To answer your question....

NO. They are not as close to Neve as you get...

Check out Brent Averill and AMS Neve....

Nothing is more scientific than a double blind shootout with platinum engineers:

http://www.vintech-audio.com/shootout.html

Except when the company who manufactures the product is administering it...

Actually it wasn't. It was Chuck Ainlay and Steve Lamm who administered the test. Dallas the owner of Vintech wasn't even in the room for 90% of it. Chuck and Steve are upright guys, and everyone else involved agreed the tests were valid and they had nothing to gain or lose by saying so. One very well known multi platinum engineer didn't even want to release his name to the public because he was the one heard zero differences every time. Most people wanted to hear a difference and disprove it, but because the test was done scientifically (i.e. double blind) there is no way to cheat or be biased one way or the other with the end result.

Whatever, I don't have time to tell you how un-scientific that test is, or why someone should consider an AMS-Neve, or Brent Averill instead if they are looking for something that's "as close to a Neve" as you can get.

Hey Nate, why don't you pop the hood on one of those units (a brand new one) and take a snapshot of the new transformers and post them here for everyone to see. I asked Dallas to, but he never did it.

Tony, you cant state that a test is un-scientific and not back up as to HOW its not and then not want to explain it in detail. Inquiring minds want to know bro

There are those of us who will be looking at getting into a Nevish piece soon and would really like to know the diff with them. Im curious as to how the test would be not correct considering that Chuck uses Martechs most of the time anyways. Nothing to gain there as he has all the gear he wants.

I realize that if you want a NEVE1073 you spend the crazy cash and buy one.
However , there are guys like myself who are just looking for a Nevish type of pre thats CLOSE to the original for a descent price(around 2 G). Doesnt have to be exact if you know what I mean but VERY close.

There are lost of choices, Brent Averill, Aurora, Chandler, Vintech etc. Looking for some insight here. Thanks heh

I had an opportunity to try Neve 1073 preamp yesterday (was quite eager to hear it). At first, it was quite impressive on vocals, before I realised how the vocals lose all the intimate details and are mercilessly formed by a poweful sound changing template. It was not me any more what I heard as a result. Making the things sound a bit "impersonal", big and hard. Pendulum MDP-1 was a relief - everything sounded natural again, full of intimate, emotional details, yet very deep, big and lush.

Just my personal experience and impression, of course ...
Seems that Neve and its clones are nothing for me ...

That's great!! thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup

Tony,

In our last exchange on Gearslutz, you indicated that you had done a lot of testing on Neve LO1166 style output transformers. In light of your knowledge of the subject, I invited you, and other interested high profile engineers to participate in another blind listening test between our X73 and vintage 1073's. You declined this offer but then asked me to post photos of the output transformer we have been using for the last two years. If you're interested in "scientific" analysis, I don't understand what you would have to gain in looking at a photo of a transformer as opposed to actually being involved in evaluating them sonically.

As for the tests we did in Nashville earlier this year, they were blind listening tests. Chuck Ainlay and Steve Lamm handled the tracking and organized and administered the tests. Everyone agreed the tests were fair and in fact all of the participants signed their test sheets. I don't know if the tests meet your "scientific" criteria or not, but the subjects were simply asked in each listening test to pick out which of four playbacks of a particular vocal or instrumental performance was different from the other three. There was a total of six different vocal/instrument tests including drum overheads, electric guitar, acoustic guitar, acoustic piano and two female vocal tracks.
Once again, if you would like to demonstrate your ability to pick out our X73 from vintage 1073's in listening tests, we would be glad to help you set something up. As I offered before, you could participate as part of a panel of experts. Anything short of actually listening to the units side by side leaves too much room for "unscientific" speculation.

Thanks,
Dallas Upton
Vintech Audio

here

I own the Vintech 473 and it is a great sounding pre. I'll never sell mine. Sounds like a Neve to me. But I bought mine because I love the way it sounded after using one to record. The best thing to do is try a few different pres out and see what ya like!

Best,
Brian

That's the Carnhill, and he says they no longer use those.
The thread is question was a discussion of the L01166. You walked around the question of what transformer you are using.. What do you have to lose by posting a photo of this part? Anyway, you don't have to post a photo, just tells us what company is winding transformers for you. I believe I already may have the transformer in question and have done some testing with it.

Just because I don't agree with how that test was done, does not mean it's a horrible product. If someone is going to ask what the closest product is to a 1073, well guess what... its' a 1073 and those are manufactured by AMS Neve and Brent Averill.

I'm not going to spend my friday night telling everyone how I would have done the test. To say that a test which is flawed for many reasons is "scientific", is a stretch. If you want to get scientific, put it on an Audio Precision and do some measurements on various things like phase, impedance, frequency response, intermodulation distortion, etc. Also, have a qualified Neve expert look at the product and inspect how the audio is passing through the circuit. That would be "scientific"! As far as a listening test... the only way i have found to properly test preamps is by stacking multiple tracks and then comparing. One track of audio is much more difficult, and leaves a lot of room for error. Especially if you're not accustomed to the monitors of the studio, etc. I just have a hard time with a test administered by endorser's of the product being labeled "scientific".

But, regardless it is what it is. There's no files on the site for any of us to compare, and I don't know the 1073's in question.

I own both the X73 and the 273.
I think they sound terrific.
I think they're very well built and definitely keepers.
I've tried some real 1073's, but not side by side with Vintech's.
The old 1073's sound different to me from studio to studio, but there are also too many other variables from studio to studio.
I use the Vintechs primarily with my tube mics and they work well with ribbons.
My other keepers are my API 3124+'s - a must have for drums, dbx 786 - super clean. Still trying to decide whether to keep my Focusrite ISA 220's, but they seem to work well with my U87's.
You can't have too many pre's. Wish I could own one of each

I've been very happy with my X73i. I just had a problem with a unit and Dallas personally called and sent me a brand new unit after determining that's what was in order. I just sang a vocal/harmonies on it tonight ("Both Of Us" - http://www.myspace.com/johnkennedysongs ) and it sounds freaking great. I could really care less if it sounds just like a Neve - it just sounds great regardless. I've got a Chandler TG2 and I find them very comparable - except the x73i has an EQ with it...very happy with it.

Here's My two cents about the vintech stuff... I have an X73 and 273. I LOVE them both. Dallas is a great dude, straight shooter, and he builds a great product. I get incredible sounds on guitars, bass, and vocals with my Vintechs.

I recently had a golden ear engineer mix four songs of an artists record Im producing and he raved about the vocal sounds I got, and when he asked me what chain I used, I told him it was the Manley Black Cardiod Mic + Vintech X73 + SPL Dynamaxx comp, Apogee Rosetta.

JD

Hey all, I've owned a Vintech 473 for a few years now and just thought I'd add some thoughts.

My drums have never sounded so good - toms man, forget it. While I thought it would be a close mic preamp, overheads sound very punchy and have transients that sit easily in my mixes. Rock guitar is meant to be recorded through these preamps - my Royer and U87 take new life through the Vintech. Have not done a lot of vocals through it as I have a DW Fearn that seems to always handle such duties with too much class to bother shooting out with the 473, but sometime really aggressive tracks that will be nuked with a compressor can be great - especially handheld 58's.

There have been a couple of times REAL 1073's have graced my studio courtesy of freelance guys, and while we have never dedicated a day to shootouts I personally am pleased with how close the Vintech gets, but hey it is a hard comparison when the 473 only has 2 band shelving EQ... The guys who own the real 1073's tell me I have pretty much got the Neve sound.

They also say there is a much bigger difference between one REAL neve and someone else's - one studios 1073 will be very dark and another might have less bottom end... I have always struggled with the concept that modern day electronics cannot do what we did 50 years ago, hell we should be laughing at what yesteryears engineers had to deal with..? Instead we all dream of finding a time machine, going back to the 50's and buying as much "cutting edge" audio gear as we could load back into the tardis.

QUOTE I bought mine because I love the way it sounded after using one to record. The best thing to do is try a few different pres out and see what ya like!

If you can find a dealer who will just give you a bunch of pre's (most will if you buy one of them at the end) to have in your studio for a month, pretty soon you know which one you don't want to give back. I already knew I wanted a 473 but when my dealer delivered it, he left me with a DW Fearn, Sebatrons, API's and some Buzz Audio stuff! I was stoked, that month saw some awesome production from my studio! I had just spent the budget on the 473... but this DW Fearn was changing my world, my vocal sounds were amazing and hey, I guess that is pretty important. My dealer let me keep it and pay it off over a couple of months - find someone like this and your purchase decisions have a lot less stress... it just transfers to stress about getting the damn cash to buy the gear, but that will never end.

Adam B - SNJ Studio
www.snjstudio.com

Hey that was a pretty cool post Adam I've been wondering about the vintech stuff, have you tried the 609 comp? Just wondering?

Cheers
Heath

Vintech phattens up keyboards/mpc drums REALLLL nice.

I've been wondering about the vintech stuff, have you tried the 609 comp? Just wondering?


Nah, but I would love to hear about it.

I wrote a review about it before it was released, I used it a lot since then though and like it a lot...it sounds like a cross between a 33609 and a 2254 to my ears, soft and colored with with flexible controls.

The Vintech stuff is great, anyone who tells you otherwise has an agenda.

what cdog said!

Hey thanks fellas, the range looks extremely well made and it's a reasonable price though still not cheap either, I'd like to play with a 609 for a few weeks, I'll give it a go someday.

I just finished tracking an entire album using my four X73'is almost exclusively, and they sound absolutely wonderful. Thank you, Vintech, for making such a great piece of gear.

Mark Cattano
Magneto Studios
www.heedmusic.com
www.myspace.com/markcattano