You know that's a handsome monkey smoking on that cigarette. You can tell he likes JaZZ.
Lively Debates filled with clever little digs and barbs. Flamewars mostly occurred in the 2nd world war. Where American ( The Flamer) would shoot hot gas on fire at a German soldier( the burnie) Or vice versa. War is hell.
Here on GS there are nothing but little lovers spats At the absolute worst it's a slap on the wrist or you might throw up in your mouth just alittle bit..

I know I'm probably going to get flamed for recommending the gear I'm about to recommend, but I'll give my honest advice:

I'm an audio-engineering major at Greenville College. Our main sets of pres in the various studios (A and E) include an API 4pre, 2 Avalon 737's, UA 4-710's, and other various Presonus/Digitech Tube pres (paired with mics ranging from Neumann to Rode).

I will tell you that, for $499, the Presonus Eureka isn't a bad pre/channel strip for the money. Compared to the Avalon and the API's, it isn't as crystal-clean. Compared to the UA-710, it fairs very well (I'm not a huge fan of the UA-710. In the studio under heavy use, they are *constantly* having to be shipped off and repaired, and I honestly think the sound is decent/mediocre at best when compared to the price). The Eureka, though it isn't an Avalon, isn't too far away from some of the other pres we use in the studio (since it is transformer-based, it has a warm, thick tone to it if you push the output: I actually really enjoy the sound). On top of this, you can pick them up used for CHEAP (after using them extensively in the studio, I picked one up from a user here on Gearslutz for $200 in mint condition with box and also bundled with a B2Pro mic).

The GAP is a great pre for the money from what I've heard (and can be modified later on with vintage parts to give it a different vibe). But definitely check out the Eureka channel-strip as an option. Decent pre for a cheap price used!

-Izzy

You better be out of town by Sun Down, or else.

LoL

I would add to that
#4 Investment Value - If I pick one up used, will I be able to get around what I paid for it later?

As most of us see so many of our studio purchases suck money down a tube, when it needs to be "upgraded" in only a few years... like a new Mac Pro, or the latest Pro Tools rig, plug-ins, drum heads, hard drives, AD/DA converters... quality analog outboard gear seems to be the best money spent from an investment standpoint. Not that any of us got into this business for investment purposes, but it's nice to know that some of the cash you put back in your business is not being completely incinerated.

Obviously #2 sound and #3 Reliability play a huge role in a piece of gear's investment value, but those being equal, it's a worthy factor to consider, when comparing between, say - a quality new Neve clone with no track record of value yet, to something like an API that has a long history of holding its value.

I'm looking at adding an API 3124 to my preamp rack soon, based on all of this criteria.

Are you suggesting that a lower end pre isn't good for layering tracks? or are you saying it's not good to run all the instruments through the same pre? I'm curious cos I was trying to decide between a UA 6176 and a GAP 73 and people on GS convinced me to go with a GAP 73. I haven't made any purchases yet... Are you suggesting that it would be much smarter going with a UA 6176 if I plan to run all my tracks through it and layer tracks with it etc.

A wise old man once told me in a night lit by moonlight that a good song is the secret to good music...

there's nothing profound about that statement. it's stating the obvious; however, a great song can sound like complete shit when ran through crap gear.

boy we sure like to complicate things we use pres to preamplify things, if you like the way the gap sounds use it if you want it to sound a little more like a 1073 and have better saturation characteristics mod the trany simple !

If you listen to the clipenator tracks at zenn, obviously the gap73 doesn't punch in the same class as the actual 1073. How could it but personally I think it is a very good pre for the money and very usable. I have heard some very fine recordings done with the gap73 stock and modded.

With the interest in the api surprised no one mentioned the warm12 like the gap73 very good pre for not a lot coin !

kcat

OolalavSuperfukk, to answer your question I'd say that the characteristics of a preamp become more and more obvious the more tracks you layer with it.
Therefore: The better the Preamp, the better the result. But keep in mind that you layer the characteristic. So if you use a very good but dark sounding pre, your recordings will sound dark. I think a good mixture is needed to achieve the best results, so the right preamp for the source.
But also keep in mind that those differences are next to nothing compared to the differences of mics.

The GAP is definitely a very good starting point. I own one and compared it to a real Neve and the differences are indeed audible, but after processing (eq/deesser/comp/parcomp/hall/delay) it was very difficult to decide correctly which one is the original.

To sum it up: With an GAP you are ready to go, if it really sounds like crap the pre isn't the issue. You can create real pro productions with it and a good singer, a good mic and a good mix.
Anyone compared the GAP to a preamp from the Beatles console? I bet I know which one will perform better...
Focus on the music and then, when success shines on you, then buy a real Neve, Millenia, Pendulum and be happy until the end of all days!

(Because of the success, not the preamp :O )

ok thanks for the tip. Do you think the GAP is ok for dark sounds? I feel like a darker sounding pre would work better with my music since it's not really ubeat and sorta melancholic

Preamp will make a VERY little difference in terms of warmer, darker, airee-er (insert adjective here)...

If you want a darker sound you would be MUCH better off using/getting a different mic on the source.

Seriously, preamps are just signal boosters by nature. They impart very little character to a signal I'm comparison to a different mic, instrument, etc....

Just have a serious think about what you have and if you need something to get your source from being 99% of what you want to 100% then maybe look at a pre. But if you aren't at 99% already then a preamp isn't going to get you there... Imho....

Personally, after listening to those clips about a dozen times, I couldn't hear much difference between the stock Gap, the modded Gap and the Neve 1073 on the zen pro clipalator. But maybe i just need to need clean out my ears some more...

Just to start off, i'm not trying to argue, i'm simply trying to create a discussion. I have no reason to argue since I'm the one here who lacks knowledge; however, I just want to bring up that i've heard many people say the preamp is much more important than the mic. so it kinda contradicts what you just said. i'm not saying you're wrong, cos i truly don't know, but I am aware of singers who use cheap mics on their records and yet they have great sounding vocals. For example, most people tell me that the reason the SM58 sounds great for Bjork isn't simply cos it's the right mic for her, but because it's going through an amazing preamp and compressor. Anyways, I'm just stating what I've heard. Correct me if that's wrong.

Changing mics will change the sound way more than changing preamps. A sm58 will sounds different than for example a Neumann U87 and in a blind test most peoples if not all will hear that. That doesn't mean that a sm58 can't sound better than a U87 in some situations.

Ok, thanks. I do plan to get a new mic anyways. I currently am just using a SM58 with a crappy preamp, but I plan to get an RE-20 mic, and I think I'm leaning towards a GAP 73 preamp, but I'm still researching more and I still am kinda considering the UA 6176

Nah man no sweat, civilised discussion can be a healthy thing.

let me put it this way... Be careful what you read on the internet! The reason a sm58 may work for Bjork over a u87 isn't because of the preamp or anything else in the chain. The reason it works for her is that she's Bjork!
A quality source will make any mic sound good. (Pity the reverse isn't true! ) the captured sound may not be exactly what you are after, but it is a type of "good" nonetheless. As mentioned above, use the best mic for the job. Its about capturing the best performance and if the singer performs best with a $100 mic so be it! Seriously you are always always always better off with the track done on a 58 where the singer consistently knocks it out of the park, than using the takes on a $2K mic that are only ok.
Not saying the 58 is a magic mic. If the best mic is the $2k mic, so be it.

People that say otherwise, imho, are either gear prudes, inexperienced or both. There's a lot of misinformation out there....

Just not in any way you can demonstrate.

Oh I agree that the gap73 on the vox and guitar were closer to the neve maybe its me but i really noticed the difference on the bass track ?

Of course we are not always recording bass. The interesting thing about all these comparisons is we all have different ears

I think the gap would get the job done fine and also be a very good starter pre in terms of learning how to saturate the input tranny. Anyway he bought the gap and I hope he is enjoying it !

Kcat

ok, thanks man I have a feeling my voice works on cheaper mics to be honest. I mean, obviously I haven't had the honor to try really nice mics, but only low end condensers and low to high end dynamics, and so far the slightly higher range dynamics seem to suit my voice the best. Perhaps a really expensive condenser would work, but i don't have the money for that. But not only have I noticed with cheaper mics that they work better with my voice, but dynamics certainly work better in a home studio seeing as they don't pic up the room sound like a condenser.