60s = what snare? I can't hear it
80s = horrible sample replaced with horrible tacky lexicon reverb
90s = compression
00s = more compression

70s = I sware every snare I hear on a 70s rock record sounds amazing?

I think it's more than compression. As we all know, compression used right will make snare jump out more. I believe it's the brickwall limiting that's the problem.

because:

60s = what snare? I can't hear it
80s = horrible sample replaced with horrible tacky lexicon reverb
90s = compression
00s = more compression

In the 70's, we used to muffle our snare drums intensely, with wallets, tampons, lots of duct tape, and such. Then, for decay, we used reverb.



Try that approach, along with using gates (not gated reverb, just gates).

Big rooms?

Because musicians could still play, recording technology had "caught up", but not enough to offer endless tinkering so there was nothing to ruin.

tuning..and treatment in the studio

Not every hit was the same sample?

There was variation in the sound from hit to hit?

me loves the sound of fat wallets taped to black beautys with duct tape

unfortunately many times the toms got the same treatment

I'd suggest it's maybe more an aesthetic thing.

And maybe one thing you're you're responding to with 70s recordings -- particularly if your tastes stray outside the center of the pop mainstream -- was that everyone wasn't falling all over themselves mimicking the competition's sounds and techniques -- so there wasn't the homogenization you get in the explosion of recording technique how to's that grew with the rise of the how to magazines and wides spread of commercial recording programs in schools.

Honestly, I hear a lot of snares I really like in contemporary recordings -- but I haven't listened to mainstream rock and pop in years, for the most part, except when it's a topic of conversation or someone tips me to someone who really is out of the cookie cutter norm.

PS... You did nail that '80s' snare sound, though. heh

That's what I was thinking -- at least for the mainstream pop stuff (particularly toward the end of the decade when people were starting to jump each others techniques and the disco snare was dominant). When I got into recording school in the early 80s, all I could think was, how am I going to get a real world snare to sound like the stuff on the records... since it was so unnatural. And, to my way of thinking, the gated reverb that would dominate pop/rock mix sounds increasingly through the decade had its roots in the heavy tinkering/processing of those disco-era snares.

In fact, maybe that's why I'm liking many of the snare sounds I hear these days, since, at least in the music I'm drawn to, there's a bit more license to let drum kits sound like real drums. (Within reason, of course. heh )

Listen to the overall arrangement of the music - it was a fair measure more open and spacious allowing for things like snare sounds to come through without out massive use of compression and overall trickery.

By the same token, not all snare sounds from the 70's were good - and not all fit the production aesthetic appropriately... you're pretty much only hearing selected examples 30-40 years later.

In the 60's - for the most part, the snare drum wasn't an engineering focus event... it was merely part of the drum sound [and folks knew how to do silly shit back in those days... like tune drums so they sounded like drums].

For some reason snare drums in the 80's became an engineering focal point in the song [and in many engineer's minds - seemingly more important than the song itself!!]. The new hot "big boy toy" of the time was made by AMS and it blew samples - snare samples, kik samples - samples!!!!!!!!!!!! They were also an add on "rental item" in most studios meaning that by renting them to the session the engineer - producer - studio would pick up extra money from the gig... meaning they were used to generate additional income AND became the necessary "fashion component" to be "current" and "modern" and "competitive"... same with the AMS RMX-16 reverb unit [can you say "NON-LIN II"?... I knew you could] which turned snare drums into cat sneezes almost instantly.

The 90's started this mad love affair with compression [which I find to be a ******'s tool employed mainly from a combination of current fashion and increasing incompetence... but I digress]... and the 00's never bothered to create its own musical identity other than the over application of "auto-tune"... which I dare say continues today and will probably continue tomorrow and well into the future as engineers, producers, musicians, etc. become less and less "visionless" and will for the "sameness" that has become the benchmark by which all recordings must stand [see threads on famous engineer "templates" and "standard techniques" for details].

Peace

Why does *everything* sound better on 70s rock records:

1) Authentic musicianship (no quantized, velocity-curved, auto-tuned samples)

2) Vintage analog gear (no jittery digital emulations)

3) Great acoustics (historic recording spaces)

4) Dynamic range (no label-dictated over-compression for faux radio loudness)

My favourite snare is from the 80s:

Good thread!

I would bet 2 inch tape decks helped make the 70 snare's sound like they did as well!!

Why do snare just sound better on 70s records......
The song were better , the player and arrangement were better.
it's got NOTHING to do with gear.............

I think most bands used Pearl, Slingerland or Ludwig snares. These days there's a ton of drum companies with less proven gear than the vintage stuff. Usually a drummer goes out and gets a snare other than what came with his kit. Some companies just don't make good ones.

A song could suck and still have a good sounding snare, and a progressive masterpiece could have a lame or tinny sounding snare. I think it has everything to do with the gear. Mic's, Mic placement, EQ settings on the console, wrong reverb settings, lots of things factor in.

Production in the 70's was much simpler than the digital age, that's for certain. A good drummer always helps but it's not the only factor.

I'm a child of the 80's but grew up listening to loads of 70's music. I absolutely adore the sound of Roger Taylor's (Queen) drum sound from their 70's recordings and his snare drum always sounded so fat and punchy. As a drummer myself it amazes me how much of a difference the player makes to the overall sound of a drumkit so the players back then deserve as much credit as the gear/recording techniques at the time etc.


Cheers, Mark.

Fletcher's brilliant rant reminded me of something funny recently regarding how accustomed we've become to completely unnatural recordings.

While working the kinks out of my new setup - I did a recording of a cover tune.. the idea being that I could focus on the workflow, any issues with gear, etc, and not have to think about the song. I played all instruments (good or bad).

So - I threw up a quick mix of it.. and a friend's comment was 'you should try varying the samples on the snare a little more - it sounds too consistent'. My response was 'there are no samples'. I just managed to hit the snare pretty consistently on that take, I guess. (and no, it wasn't overcompressed)
"-)

My favorite snare is from the 80s too...



...along with my favorite band and favorite movie.

But I do love 70s snare. Nothing like it.

Here is the modern problem and the answer to the op question.

There is not a drummer left with a fat wallet. Maybe if the band taped all of their wallets a medium sized one can be finagled.

AMEN

Brilliant. thumbsupthumbsupthumbsup

As usual.

Cat Sneezes...man that's funny!!

i remember my first listen was playback at a Stanly Clarke concert.

RIP Roger N / Jeff P

70's snare drums not tune to sound like timbale's

wallet, 2"Tape and more 1/2"tape

C

HAHA!

^^^ cat sneezes.... Awesome.

The times when I feel like I've really achieved that sound, it has always been a combination of the drummer, room and song arrangement. For instance, I recorded a cover of a Donny Hathaway song called "This Christmas" for an Elliot Yamin record. We had James Gadson (Bill Withers....) come in and play. We set up in a small room and used fairly minimal miking. James plays with a certain touch that just makes the entire kit sound balanced in the room with even just one mic. The tone of the snare is able to speak better because it's not getting killed with a rimshot each time. Also, the song has a lot of space in it because there aren't 4 tracks of Marshall and Bogner eating up every bit of sonic space.

Chris from the band Jet also has that sound. I think Sardy nailed some great vintage tones on that first Jet record.

tampons... used? lol, that's why it sounded bloody good :P

I'll have to work on that.