I have a UAD 610 Solo and a Neve 1073-clone that I use happily with electric guitars, but you know how they sound...they are both very soft, colorful and fat.
I would like a 500 preamp that is tight, punchy and fast on transients to pair it with a condenser or ribbon microphone. The first name that comes to my mind is API 512c and CAPI clones, but is there anything else I could look at?
My final setup would be something like:
Sennheiser e906 -> UAD 610 Solo or 1073 clone
AKG 414 or SE VR2 -> fast and tight preamp

Thanks a lot

The API works well for your needs (as would most CAPI options). Plenty of transient detail and mid-range bite.

I have some Neotek 1E channel strips racked that smoke on electric guitar as far as tight transient detail is concerned. Sytek makes (or made?) an affordable rack piece that replicates the Neotek preamp.

While not ALWAYS the case, when I want tight and fast transients, I reach for gear with plenty of op-amps.

Other pre's that come to mind that are tight and punchy: Daking, A-Designs, Trident, SSL.

API, Daking, any cleanish pre with adequate gain for your mic.

if 'speed' is amongst the criteria you consider to be important, the type of mic is much more important that the preamp so maybe you wanna try a sdc before you start shopping preamps...

if 'speed' is amongst the criteria you consider to be important for recording electric guitar, the type of mic is much more important that the preamp so maybe you wanna try a sdc before you start shopping preamps...

API and Neve are favored on electric guitars and drums. If you have both, you have your choice of sound.

I dig the Stam 312T on guitars. But as said above, the right mic and some eq would probably make a bigger difference.

As others have said, API. For rock guitars I just love them.

For alternatives, I have always liked the Burl preamps for guitars. Chandler TG2 is excellent as well. To my ears, they both exchange a bit of punch for a bit of size. Totally valid exchange depending on the material!

This. I heard the Josesphson e22S is fantastic on guitar amps, although I haven't tried that mic on any amp myself.

If you're not against 19" rack gear, the original Great River MP2H is fast and sounds great on guitar amps. There were a couple on Reverb a while back.

With the AKG414 and the SE VR2 I found rest and I don't want to change things too much. I like the way they sound, but putting both the 906 and the condenser/ribbon on two very soft preamps makes the sound a bit muddy. I just want the condenser/ribbon sounded more defined and "in your face", nothing else.
By the way, SDCs are a standard on acoustic guitars, but on electric guitars LDCs (AKG 414, Neumann U87) and ribbons (M160, R121) are usually used.

A tube API? Won't it overlap with my UAD 610?

I have nothing against 19" racks, but I don't have the space to put one at the moment, so I stick to the 500 format.

Thanks, you've given me a lot of ideas. I know some of those names, but only by reputation.
Doesn't SSL pres sound very clean and crystal clear?
https://solidstatelogic.com/products/vhd-pre-module
From A-Designs I really like the P-1, but I can only find it in the USA for $900-1000 and adding customs+shipping to Europe makes the deal quite pricey. If I found a used one in Europe, I'd catch it immediately.
I didn't know Daking, I see they have this in their catalog but it only has the gain pot. Could the lack of a fader pot be a limitation? I would prefer that second pot to be the fader/trim rather than a variable HPF.
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...preamp/reviews
Trident has a solid reputation for their consoles, but they make a 500 module preamp. However, it has the same limitation (no fader/trim pot) as the Daking and even the A-Design P1 to be honest.
https://tridentaudiodevelopments.com...0b-500-preamp/

Just speaking for oneself, presumably.

i was referring to 'fast' behaviour which is what you get from sdc's - c'est tout.

the importance and effect of preamps on condensers (both sdc's and ldc's) is often vastly overrated; their imprint can more easily get noticed on dynamic and (passive) ribbon mics.

for versatility (and 'speed'), check out crane song flamingo II or then focusrite liquid 4pre.

SSL pre's are on the clean side of things. They are fast though and would work well for the use you describe. I haven't used the VHD model, but it looks like you can really drive this specific pre for all sorts of good harmonic distortion (which typically isn't something most console SSL preamps are known for). This might be the ticket you are looking for.

I own the rackmount version of the P-1 Pacifica. Also great for transient response and electric guitars (amongst other things). It does add a bit of the "punch" you are looking for also imo. Based on a Quad 8 design from the 70's. It's a bit of a cross between Neve/API imo; the best of both worlds. Really great preamp for nearly any signal you put through it. It isn't completely soft sounding like your 610, but it's very open-sounding and just a bit softer/rounder than API from my experience. They aren't cheap, but that's because they are built like tanks and sound great. Worth the higher price tag imo.

The Daking is based off of Trident preamps I believe. Geoff Daking makes great gear. The HPF works well to cut some of the mud of course. Same thing goes with the Trident 80B, but you also get a LPF with this one to cut out some of that unnecessary fizz of distorted guitars.

You have legitimate concerns with the trim pot limitations. It is indeed harder to drive these three preamps into saturation and maintain good levels to your DAW unless you want to truly crank your guitar amp. There is a workaround though: https://www.adesignsaudio.com/atty-stereo-attenuator

I've used this to really crank the gain and saturate some of my preamps that don't have a trim pot, and then put the ATTY in-line to attenuate the signal to usable levels going into my converters/DAW. It really opens up some possibilities for different sound textures.

Electrical Audio just released the 500 series version of their EApreq, you may want to check that too

Phoenix Audio DRS pres are my fav for electric guitars. They have a neve like tone but are so much faster and have sort of searing excitement to them. Can highly recommend.

John Hardy (or any of the better Hardy clones)

One of the best I know for your purpose is the Adesigns Pacifica.

Language can be hard to pin down sometimes.

So, just to make sure we're clear on exactly what each other are talking about...

Is there an AES white paper or an official Gearspace-approved test somewhere that is the agreed reference for defining preamps as:

• "fast and punchy"
• "slow and pillowy"
• "middling and average"

It doesnt matter. Period.
If you want fast and punchy transients connect the guitar DI to the interface.
But, everybody considers something different for "fast and punchy". When you connect the guitar to an amp and it saturates well... thats slowing the transient. So you want speed but at the same time you overdrive the signal?
Marketing make you thinks you want something.
If you spend more than 2000$ in a preamp you will believe there is a difference. You wont be able to distinguish i a unbiased test. But you will feel like your recording is better cause you like the gear and metal hardware and knobs.

It's just another thread where certain pieces of gear are somehow able to cast a magical spell on the signal, but then you wake up from that wet dream with an empty wallet if you're relatively more aware of human confirmation biases.

I'll enthusiastically echo the recommendation for Phoenix. I've been tracking bass and guitar through the Ascent 2EQ's DI and it's pretty special. I use this thing for the DI nearly as much as for the (excellent) mic amps. Reasonably priced for the quality, too.

Forgot to mention Daking.

Another recommendation for a API style preamp. I would recommend a 312 or 512v, also check out the BAE 312, and if you want to save and get a an amazing api preamp the CAPI 312 or CAP VP28 are hard to beat

What on Earth do people even mean by "fast" these days?

Is it something besides extended high frequency response and a high slew rate? (Back in the stone age when I learned audio theory, that is all I was taught "fast" meant then.)

AFAIK any decent solid state preamp (including quite cheap ones) should be WAY faster than a ribbon mic or (especially) a guitar speaker, with its horribly rolled off treble (by hi fi speaker standards). A guitar speaker shapes the sound the way it does because it's big and slow, failing to fully or accurately track quick changes in the signal.

As I understand it---somebody do correct me if I'm wrong---it fails to vibrate much at high frequencies or to slew quickly, and you don't need a special kind of preamp to be able to track the resulting waveform very precisely.

If you actually want fast from an electric guitar amp through a speaker, don't you at least need a tweeter, to respond to quick variations in the signal? (And probably a supertweeter to even approach the speed of any decent general purpose solid-state preamp) And then a good condenser mic to respond with commensurate speed?

Likewise with "punchy"...

What does that even mean in signal-processing terms?

How is one preamp supposed to be "punchier" than another? AFAIK any high fidelity preamp should deliver as much punch as there is in the signal, no more and no less. If it's adding or subtracting punch, isn't something wrong with it?

The only way I know to make a signal punchier is by emphasizing certain frequencies over others, and that's something you can do with EQ; you don't need a different, "punchy" preamp for that.

But maybe somebody can explain how a "punchy" preamp is supposed to work, if it's not just having a bump in the frequency response. Is it supposed to distort lower frequencies and generate those punch frequencies as harmonics, or what?

Is good to wake people up from the myths and lies.
They confuss everything and believe that something is great and they cant even distinguish from the preamp in the interface.
Whatever, you are warned... be free, is you want to spend thousands on it do it. And i not referring to high end clean preamps for classical music.

Why not use a eq that splits the signal and let's you eq the transients separate? Like eventide split eq. You can eq the transients without affecting the tone.

API 512. what else.

Buzz Audio
Speck
AEA

Forssell
Gordon
Millennia

For guitars:
Chandler Germanium