I've got jokes on that one.
But we're the kinder/gentler Gear-space now!

I gotta know

A blind test. Hmm...

It's a Wonder if I tell you.
I'd be signed/sealed/delivered if I did!
(Kidding I love his stuff)
Chris

That's a nice sound on the TLM 102, as was the U87ai and the Manley Reference. I didn't really care for the other two.

TLM 102 is quite nice. But...
The under $700 range has SO much other competition now...
Chris

My transformerless condenser locker is weak sauce, but only cost me $735 for 4 mics: AT4050, KSM32, NT1 black, 3U CM1 Teal.

Can't afford $900 for one transformerless mic, so I got Neumann headphones instead of a TLM.

Now I have a Neve and Neumann. Ready for the big time.

Saving up for an m49v and c800g. Just saw a sony go for $6500. Would rather save up for that than have mics like a sock in mouth TLM193 sitting in my closet (my TF39 slays the TLM193 in the mids. Obviously the m49v is objectively better than the TLM49.

Can't see a TLM in my immediate future unless I record someone who thinks they are "a-list", then I will get them at the freefalling used prices I am seeing. (see $350 TLM102 ,$650 TLM103, $850 TLM193, $900 TLM49).

I bought an SM7b for the same type of person. Like, oh sorry, don't have that $35,000 mic, but I do have this $400 one that you also think is cool, So...hope you're happy!

Overall yes X-Thanks!
Like a guitar player...

How many guitars do they really need?

Just one more!

FWIW just got the Beesneez Elly/47 FET style.
It works better on me, than the TLM 102, as an example.

Informal/brief "one take" Vocal below.
More info if anyone's curious.
I love it already!
Chris

AT4050 and KSM32 are both awesome mics and not just for the price. The TLM series is great as well but a bit overpriced IMO

My lean tends to be partly towards the Voicing, that the mic designer leans towards.

OG Bock/Beesneez/Heiserman... Olde Skool Icon based kinda stuff.

I wonder sometimes how much of it is having a Retro sort of voice to begin with.
:

4050/TLM 103/KSM 32/etc. Aren't really first pulls on this voice type.
Chris

Mark Crabtree, Stuart Nevison and AMS-Neve at the center of it all in so many ways

From Vintage King Blog January, 2024:

THE SOUND

Unknown Pleasures was recorded in Strawberry Studios in Stockport, which was originally started by the members of 10cc. It sported a state-of-the-art custom-made 24-channel Helios console, as well as two EMT 140 plate reverbs which Hannett used to great effect. Among some of his favorite outboard pieces were the Marshall Time Modulator (which Peter Hook referred to as the “Marshall Time Waster”), the Eventide H910, the AMS DM2-20 Tape Phase Simulator, a Melos tape echo, and his favorite piece of outboard, the AMS DMX 15-80, which Hannett called “Heaven sent.”.

It also isn’t so well known, but Hannett actually had a hand in the development of the DMX 15-80. Mark Crabtree and Stuart Nevison were former aerospace engineers who founded Advanced Music Systems (AMS) in Burnley in 1976. Somehow, they had discovered Martin Hannett and would meet once a month in a random parking lot between Manchester and Burnley. Martin would clamber into the back of their car, describe the crazy sounds that he was imagining in his head, and then drive back to Manchester. This went on for a few months, and through these strange encounters, the DMX 15-80 was born.

Hannett was rather unconventional with his use of the device and would use the DMX to its absolute limit: he used to send the snare track to the AMS with an incredibly short delay time, then panning that delayed sound to create a wide stereo image on the snare track. You can hear this effect most notably on “Wilderness”, and a similar technique seemed to be used on “Love Will Tear Us Apart”. The DMX also features prominently on Ian Curtis’ vocals on “She’s Lost Control”, and its characteristic pitched whooshing can be heard flying under Bernard Sumner’s guitars on the album’s opener, “Disorder”.

Well keep in mind, there is a comment in this thread that because someone got a Neve and a Neumann they are ready for the big time.

I don't think a lot of people who say "there is no depth in mono" know what that even means. I see videos all the time of people saying "I've never heard a vintage Neve, but I'm quite sure this is total crap in comparison..." or some other useless silly nonsense. If they've never heard a Neve, and they are trying to compare something to a Neve, it's time to turn them off. But they have countless viewers.

Another post in this threat talks about Warm Audio being dumpster fill. No way that dude has used anything Warm Audio. Combining this with the above comparison, and you have people who know that Warm Audio is crap because it sounds like something they just heard, can compare to nothing, but they know it sounds like crap compared to that something. I've only heard BAE, so I can't compare my WA73 EQ to a vintage Neve, and I haven't ab'd it with any of the BAE's I've heard. I can't speak to how close it is or isn't to a Neve. I can speak to how when I turn the gain to 2 or 3 o'clock when I'm micing a guitar amp, it starts adding some WAY awesome sauce. No one would stand there next to me and say "that sounds like crap." In fact, the people who were standing next to me went "DAAAAAANG!"

Going further with the quality of the 88m where it's components are concerned, whether it's my Warm Audio, or the 88m, if you can't make a fantastic sounding recording with either of them, neither kit is your problem. You are. And, if someone thinks the 88m is snake oil because it's usb powered or whatever, I mean as you've pointed out on the supreme soundcard comment, they likely have no idea what the components inside it are.

On that front, the Audient stuff has pretty much the same quality of components, and it comes down to whether Iron is preferred or not. I think most of us who can look at what the things are, see how they're made, research the companies for just a bit, etc. can tell that we would happily take an Audient ID or 88m if we suddenly had nothing, and someone offered one or the other up. Sure, in that case we'd take a Behringer whatever too, but we'd be blown away at getting something as nice, and that sounds as good as either kit mentioned in the op.

Some of you guys worry me. What does your trannyless locker have to do with weak sauce? I wouldn't turn any of those mics down.

Another thing about the never-heard-the-vintage argument is that most are referring to having the equipment present. There are usually examples around from artists' work to online comparisons. If you work in a studio where the recording is what counts, I'd argue the recorded sound is more important than pre-. It doesn't matter how much magic blows you away in the studio if it's lost in the end result, unless you initially want to dazzle clients then give them buyer's remorse.

Absolutely... gear is overhyped from the get go anyway. Yes, it is better to have good gear, but there is a discussion here about the Sunset Sound Reverb plugin, and how IK is dropping the ball in not having a Sunset sound console plugin. Man, no one ever decided to go to Sunset sound because of custom made unbranded consoles. Sure, they are pretty great, but CAPI is the only company I can think of even making Wally Heider preamps. That Frank Demedio/Jensen stuff is amazing, but it just isn't famous in the way Neve and API are. Probably because they are modified Neve gear in most cases, but people went to Wally Heider Studios, and go to SS because The Doobie Brothers and Van Halen recorded in them and all the records we know from there sound amazing, not because they listed the gear in 20 studios and knew they had to have Demedio gear on their album. lol

In a world of snobs and cheats where people laugh or steal your music when it's original, I can see why so many musicians/producers stick to imitating others in their music and gear choices. That's not me though and I prefer to innovate even if it means staying underground. There's no incentive to create things that others take credit for.

In case the above sounds hypocritical with respect to gear variations, I assume Rupert Neve knew what he was getting into and the laws around his work in the same way artists should be aware of plagiarism law. It's important people understand what framework exists before they commit to projects and whether they can defend themselves.

Regardless of the philosophical debate about whether an 88 series preamp should be driven hard or not: Can't the signal from the first channel be sent (DRIVEN HARD) to the second channel (pre-conversion) so that you'll end up having ONE channel with both input AND output transformers and trims that you can actually drive hard?

I think a $2000 Neve preamp should always come with dedicated line outs, output controls and dedicated power.

Using the sends is fine but you lose the insert. USB power is ok with a computer, but what if you're not on a computer?

etc.

Pyeguy--then pay for it.

That's my personal 'wish' list for the 88m.

The AMS-Neve 88m is a sound card. So made to be used always with a computer.

Other features you ask for, available in a AMS-Neve preamp or AMS-Neve console. Buy that one instead.

88M is a NEVESOUND transformer based sound card in a compact transportable format.

It works with a standard telephone power supply.

Preamp outputs are routed directly through analog output 1 & 2 and so you can still use send/return

Hannet used to take that DMX around with him if he went to other studios - perhaps as his secret sauce? I also think Hannet completely ruined Unknown Pleasures - it would have been a much better album with more conventional production - I prefer practically all of the live versions of Joy Division tracks - warts and all. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the bootleg recordings knocking around today are mine - I recorded a couple of gigs and sold a cassette of them to a pirate in Camden Market!

PS Hannet was a boorish ----! At least he was switched on to new tech and actually read the manual I guess, unlike a lot of people in the day. They say don’t speak ill of the dead – I say if particular people were extremely and unnecessarily nasty when they were alive – screw ‘em! There's a difference between not suffering fools gladly and being a nasty piece of work.

....and another thing - take a look at that list of equipment again. How the hell did the likes of Hannet produce album after album that sounds like they've been tracked in someone's garage on a Tascam 8 track? The sound of his stuff is mostly utter shite despite having a fantasic studio (in the day) under his fingertips.

Argghhh so you did Jim lad.

Wow getting terrible bootleg cassettes from Camden market, that does take me back.

I thank my bass player for getting me into Joy Division, as I had always been a bit sniffy about them. I think the records sound ok.

From stories I have heard, from even older people, he was an interesting personality.

I still laugh when I see some of his junk for sale on eBay where it has been listed for over 10 years. I think they sold his 15-80 in the 1st week but no takers for some of the other stuff.

Yeah, and not enough emphasis is placed on the room acoustics today, among up-and-coming engineers (professional or otherwise) when they're looking to cop a sound/feel from the past. No doubt the console played a role there, but the rooms played a much greater part, as well as the workflow that the studio configuration enforced or provided.

Got an 8803 now and not enthused over doing a simple experimental pairing with the 88m but could possibly be persuaded if anyone's interested in the result.

What’s the verdict, snake oil?

No, stunning sound, and built like a tank

How do you all think the 88M’s converters would compare to something like the Lynx Hilo?

Good to hear. Really been enjoying my Newton Channel. Going to add this to my on the go rig. Appreciate ya.