Tossing up over these mics..

I record my son, he is 10yo mainly pop/rap.
Currently recording on a sm7b into a BEA 1073.
I want to get a condenser mic.

I like the TLM-103 but also the c-100.. his voice can get a bit harsh sounding at times Im not sure if the c-100 might sound harsh on him. I do like that modern sound though. But I want a mic that can take processing and EQ well... Im not sure if these mics take processing and EQ well?
(I have heard the u87ai does).

Any feedback would be most welcome also other mic recommendations would be helpful.

Vocal Sample: https://youtube.com/shorts/8035apDrMDY?feature=share

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Hi Dread.
I'm not sure what his voice "really" sounds like, due to the Autotune.
If you have any vocal clips of him just singing without Pitch Correction, that'd be great.

Not sure if the nasality is primarily the Processing, or the current vocal situation. (hey I've been busted here too occasionally for being a bit nasal! )

If the budget is around $3K, for a 10 year old...
For example, some of that $$ can go to regular voice lessons.
And since it's easily apparent he has an engaging personality, some for acting lessons too.
Is it possible for him to participate in local musical theater training for children?

Also as a "before" reference-when he's ready, could you record him in a good local Pro studio? I would keep the Raw recordings, along with the Processed ones.

Also they could try some different microphones, in a treated studio.
FWIW it's harder for me to assess any microphones, in a typical domestic situation.
(I'm testing a Premium vocal mic more tomorrow BTW)

Plus I don't have the years of ear experience, the strong AE's who frequent here do.
In "solo" I can (usually) judge a mic pretty well. But judging for the "Mix" is a lot tougher-ahead of time.
That's part of the reason you're better off having professional backup/expertise, as part of his "Team".

BTW most of the "Modern" vocal sound IMHO comes from the singer's tone itself. This is if you want the vocal to be more distinctive and natural. If a vocal is going to get tuned and hammered into submission, then how responsive the mic is to all that, is an important factor. In the "game of inches"... Yes it can be enhanced towards one end of the spectrum or the other via gear and processing.

Here's a vocal of mine done direct into my cheap cell phone.
But my voice seems oddly suited for Psychedelic type vocals, so I think it came out pretty well considering...
This was a "one take"/"off the cuff" vocal done on a park bench. No Autotune/just some kooky Processing for fun ala Bandlab.
Then a cool GS member surprised me, with added instrumentation as couple of months later.
I wasn't conscious I was following the timing of that song so closely!

My main point of the last paragraph, is finding what your son is naturally inclined towards, will help him discover his unique "real voice"... (so sayeth the Boomer Dinosaur here)
Chris

The vocal example you posted wasn't tonally harsh. However, I do hear the extreme amount of compression squashing some consonants down in a nasty way - for example on "CRushing on you". I think the same overcompression is making the vocal feel too boxy. And it's making the noise floor come up so loud you can hear it especially at the beginning when he's talking.

Short version: The mic is not your problem - your vocal processing very much is.

Generally, nothing wrong with an SM7 but I think its a heavy mic on lighter voices, same here on your son. An 87 is a great microphone and if you’ve got the dough and you want one, why not? An 87 mind you can be bright, might be more harsh. I’d steer you towards a 47 type mic. Try an AT4047 first inexpensive but pretty cool. Or maybe even get a Townsend Sphere which is a mic modeller, His voice is going to change alot over the next few years, the Townsend is great for experimenting with different options and will grow with your kid.

That said, I work with alot of musical theatre kids and the competition is high, as Chris said, lessons will be much more influential on his tone than anything else.

Partly due to positive feedback by David Rick and Deedeeyeah...
IMHO adding the TLM 107 to the short list is a good call.
(I think the Heiserman Type 19 is cool too)

For an 87 style... Beesneez 87/UT Twin87/Serrano 87, are all worth considering.
All under $1K.
UT 47 FET too.
Chris
P.S. Roswell Mini K's are very nice also.

The C100 is a very nice mic. I'm not a u87 fan even less so for the u87ai. Haven't used Neumanns TLM line but the Sony is one of the best FET's I've used so far


Sony C-100 demo
https://youtu.be/O1zrapKc76s

I don't see the problem?
And of course the U87 is not for my son.. ITS FOR ME!
My son will be happy recording music together on any mic really, I want the u87 as growing up in the 80s 90s this was a "grail mic" used on allot of dope hiphop records that I never was able to obtain at the time.

Is the issue I would be wasting money?
That I would purchase an expensive mic only to record my 10yo hens being a waste of money?
Like I could not resell the mic and recoup most of my investment? (specials if I purchased the well known and sought after brand second hand)

I dont really understand the problem here... but maybe the problem lies with you idk.

Thanks for the info and for sharing your knowledge..

He actually does singing lessons as well as drama two days a week, he loves it.

We make music together and together we learn and get better him singing and me "engineering" and this gives us great satisfaction.. this is the "team".

I will check some of the recommendations you mentioned.

P.s here is another clip with no autotune..
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Celdv...d=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

Thanks! I will check out and consider all these options. cheers

Hey, thanks for your input Crille, I did check out your c-100 video while researching the mic (Grym video forasten!)

I do like the tone of the mic.. its definitely on the list.

Well no, you said “ I record my son, he is 10yo mainly pop/rap”, you indicated it was just to record your kid. But either way I apologize for my tone, even if it is just to record your son, there’s nothing wrong with that. I was in a bad mood and your post struck me the wrong way for some reason. Sorry :/

Hey, he's got talent!
Very cool.
Chris

Don’t get the u87. It’s a great mic, but if you are looking for that crispy modern vocal sound (think song c800), it’s not my go to.

Tlm103 is a solid workhorse mic for pop/rnb/rap, regardless of how much people in the forums seem to disagree that it is.

So I think it’s down to the C-100 or AK-47 or possible good old tlm103. Anyone have opinions on the Telefunken AK-47?

If you're going for a more "natural" type of sound...

The previous ones I mentioned are less bright toned.
(I think your son has a bright Boy Soprano voice to begin with)

Check out the 'ol Jackson 5 vocals, if you'd like to reference a mellower Neumann (than TLM 103) on young voices. Especially Michael's which has that "chirping" quality like your son's.
That's partly why he was the main lead singer.
Cuts through a Dance Mix better for one thing.

Jermaine's voice is less bright than Michael's, and was more suited towards staying with Ballads and BGV's.
He does an excellent Cover of "Daddy's Home", for example.

The J5 sold easily over 75 million records (some sources are 100 million-hard to say exactly), so their microphones didn't hurt them too much!
Chris
P.S. Voices can change over time though, especially young ones.
Even for myself, I was surprised putting my Soundelux U195
in the brighter "FLAT" mode, sounded better on a particular song
tonight.

Heres our journey to the Flea 47 mic - we have an 87 it sounds great but its bright and gets harsh on certain female voices, especially musical theatre female voices. Bought a Townsend, found that a 47 emulation was consistently effective. Bought an SM7B (cheap mans 47) too heavy on light voices. Bought an AT4047 - this sounded really great but lacked some glamour and depth - however it really confirmed that the 47 type sound was going to work. Looked at the AK47 found it personally on the thin side, eveyone will have their own idea of what a 47 should sound like, to me it didn’t evoke a 47.
Hired a Flea 47 Vintage…bingo. End of story.
Bought it next day.

*BTW not suggesting you drop 4k on a Flea rather if your journey is anything like this, then a 47 type might be in your future. If I didn’t have the budget, but wanted to add a more nimble but not harsh mic SM7B alternative to my collection, the AT4047 would be my choice.

This is very insightful... I do think there is something there and I really should do what you did and hire a bunch of microphones. But I do think a 47 might be the way to go...

What other 47 emulations are worth while looking into?

...What other 47 emulations are worth while looking into?

Not technically 47 tube styles, but around $900-1000, UT 47FET and Heiserman Type 19...

Are serious 47 style capsule based vocal microphones. I'd put the previously mentioned AT4047 on the shortlist.

On my idiosyncratic voice however, AT's 4050 and 4060 sound better within their line.
Chris
P.S. Roswell Mini K47 is nice too.

Have you visited Audiotestkitchen.com?

You can audition microphones over there against a range of material, lots of 47 types, just search 47 there are enough there to occupy you for days, as well as 87s.
Also ZenProAudio clipilator - if memory serves they do mics too.

That's fantastic , thanks!

Why not give a less expensive 87-style mic a shot? AKG P220/P420 always do well on general purpose/budget shootouts, and the TZ Stellar X2 and Vintage sounded great to me, in demos.

AKG P120 (Black) is easier to work with, if only cardiod is needed.
But P120/200 & 400 Series do NOT sound close to any of the U87's.
(I have P120 and 200 Perceptions)
Chris

I've read many of your posts and tend to agree! The 220 is U87ish in design, a clone of sorts, but most people don't say it sounds the same. I've also heard shootouts where it sounds close. Alas, I don't own one.

Part of the issue is the 200/400 series don't have the frequency de-emphasis circuit put in, from the factory. So effectively they sound more keeping.
And potentially harsh in comparison.

Another is the capsule. Although IMHO they are "nice sounding". They're not on the same level sonically, as the Neumann.

I think the P120 capsule usually sounds a bit better.
If these Perceptions are compared stock.
Chris

https://groupdiy.com/threads/akg-per...00-p420.67473/

I believe it has the de-emphasis circuit but not the same value capacitor and not the same spec capsule. I sometimes think about these, cheap/used, for toms or something.

Any mic that is harsh/sibilant on a vocalist will give you that same nastiness in the cymbal bleed when used as a tom mic. If you want a good cheap condenser mic without a harsh top get some CAD M177/179’s.