Hi Everybody,
I have a disturbing, intermittent "buzzing sound" occurring in my system. I am convinced it is not coming from any of my gear, but actually from the circuitry / electrical power supply I am getting from the outlets in the wall. My outlets ARE GROUNDED. I have attached a couple of short sound clips of the problem I'm having, and any advice or help diagnosing it, as well as thought as to possible solutions, would be much appreciated.

About my studio: My office/studio is located in the basement portion of an office building, adjacent to other offices. I just moved in four months ago, so this space is new for me, and the problem has been there from the start of moving in and getting things up and running. I only record during evening hours, when not many people are in their offices (except maybe one or two, way down the hall). My office has a large fluorescent light fixture in the ceiling, but I removed the light bulbs and keep it completely turned off at all times. I use a lamp to light the room, instead. I use a Mac Mini computer from 2012 and an RME Fireface UCX as my interface, which is attached to a Rupert Neve R6 Chassi full of preamps. I have five main guitar amps that I use, and a handful of different guitars. I am using all new Mogami and Asterope cables for everything. Much of my gear is plugged into a Furman PL-8C power regulator.

NOTE: I have ALL my gear plugged into a grounded outlet. I had tested the outlet in advance with a Home Depot Multimeter test kit. The kit / tester showed the two outlets I'm using are indeed grounded. Also, I am getting the correct amount of voltage to the outlets (about 125 volts). I tested that with the kit, as well.

Here are some of my findings, which may serve as clues:

-The amps still buzz with NO guitar plugged in.
-Not all of the guitar amps exhibit the buzzing sound, but two of them did. The Vox AC-15 only buzzed when the Top Boost channel was turned up, whereas my 1979 JMP 50 2204 Marshall amp buzzed no matter what. The buzzing sounds they made were identical. The Fender Deluxe Reverb amp didn't buzz at all, that I could hear, nor did the Marshall JCM2000. If the JCM 800 2204 amp was buzzing, it was too quiet to really hear. The JMP 50 and the Vox AC15 were the main "buzzing" culprits. I decided to take the Vox home with me that night to test at my apartment, which is a different building / different location. I plugged it in at home, and the buzzing was non-existent. This seems to suggest that the buzzing was indeed being caused by something in my office/studio, not by faulty parts in the amp.
-There is buzzing in the DI of the RME interface when a guitar is plugged in, but no buzzing when no cable or guitar has been inserted. As soon as you insert a cable, the buzzing starts. I tried every guitar I have.
-The buzzing I'm getting is in no way related to a faulty cable. I tried many different ones, and they're all quite new and high quality anyway.
-There is buzzing in the background when recording a vocal through any given microphone (through a preamp that's connected to the interface via line input), but it is so faint that it's basically inaudible unless you're really, really looking for it; Not noticeable like the DI track buzzing, or the buzzing through my guitar amps.
-You hear the buzzing coming through the guitar amplifiers regardless of whether you're listening through a microphone hooked up in front of one of them, or listening in open air... In other words, the noise is coming out of the amp, not coming from just the microphone / interface.

I re-arranged the way everything in the studio was plugged in, and tried as many different "plugging" configurations as I could think up. Here are the things I tried. None of them worked, because the same buzzing occurred regardless. I kept my cell phone turned OFF for ALL of these tests, and unplugged any unneeded items like an extra table-lamp and a rotating fan:

-Plugged Vox AC-15 directly into wall outlet, with computer / RME interface / computer monitor / mouse / cell phone all turned completely off = Still buzzing
-Plugged Marshall JMP 50 directly into wall outlet, with computer / RME interface / computer monitor / mouse / cell phone all turned completely off = Still buzzing
-Computer + Computer monitor + RME interface all plugged into same power strip (not the Furman PL-8C), with nothing else plugged into that strip = Still buzzing (through both DI and guitar amps)
-Computer plugged into Furman, but Computer monitor + RME interface plugged into separate power strip = Still buzzing
-RME + Computer plugged into Furman, but Monitor plugged directly into wall = Still buzzing
-Computer + Monitor plugged into power strip (not Furman), but RME interface plugged into Furman = Still buzzing
-Computer plugged directly into wall, Monitor plugged directly into wall, RME plugged into the Furman = Still buzzing
-Computer plugged directly into wall, RME interface plugged directly into wall, and Computer monitor plugged directly into wall (in other words, they each had their own wall outlet), Mouse turned off and Mouse USB connector disconnected from the computer completely = STILL BUZZING

Let me know if you guys think I need to call an electrician over to take a look. Any thoughts would be great. Thanks for the help!

I've attached two sound clips of the problem I'm having... The D/I clip is very quiet, but the "Amp" clip is louder. Needless to say, headphones would help in listening to these, but you can hear the second clip (the amp buzz) pretty well either way. The D/I clip is what the D/I channel sounds like with a guitar plugged into it. The other clip is what the amp buzzing sounds like. The amp buzz you hear is with NO guitar plugged into the amp.

Thanks again.

A couple thungs come to mind,
1 ( try turning off any cell phones in the studio
2) try bybassing the power supply,and plug directly into a wall scket... and use a new trip outlet new mutistrip outlet.
3) Try changing the cords, could be a bad cord connetion Try a diffent input source.. or different mic.

I hope that helps

Wireless keyboard or mouse? What kind of building/facility are you in? Is it a shared space or apartment building? If you have access to your breaker, crank one of your guitar amps to where you can hear the buzzing and start switching off the breaker for other sections and outlets and see if one of them makes it go away. That might help you narrow down the interference.

In the basement project studio I work out of for tracking we have found there is one light switch outside of the room on the other side of the basement that cause a sound exactly like this.

If the light is on, we hear it, if it is off, we do not.

Not sure that helps. Good luck.

Thank you for the advice! It's definitely not cord related, as I tried many different cords, nor is it mic related, as I was hearing the sound coming out of the amps in open air, without using a mic at all. I will definitely try your idea to turn off my cell phone and see what happens. I will also try plugging it directly into the wall outlet, without any power strip. Keep in mind, I am using a newly bought Furman PL-8C, so it would be shocking if that were giving me the buzzing...

It is a wireless keyboard AND a wireless mouse. Both of them were definitely on during all of my testing.

I am in a basement office in an old office building in Van Nuys, California that was originally built in the 60's and then renovated / rebuilt in the 80's. My office (which is my studio) is adjacent to other small offices stretching down the hallway, some of which are currently occupied and most of which are not.

As far as switching off the breaker, that is something I wouldn't be allowed to do, by the owner of the building. I'm not allowed access to the breaker. I would need to bring in an actual licensed electrician to do that, to get the owner's permission. If we can narrow this problem down to being something that MUST be related to the electrical connection of the outlets, or the breaker, then I will definitely bring in an electrician. I guess that's why I'm on here, trying to narrow it down with your help.

Thank you for your advice!

That's a great thought. My only fear is that, if that is a problem, I'm not sure what I would be able to do about it, as I am in an office complex with other offices nearby, and I can't tell them when to turn on / off their office lights. I keep my office light (a large fluorescent light that buzzes a lot, turned off ALL the time to avoid issues... Could the fluorescent light in my room (or other rooms nearby) be causing the problem, even though my light is turned off at all times? I'm not sure.

Thank you for your help!

I did not know that was your situation.

If I were in that situation, I would try to figure out if it could be a light in another unit. (maybe go in at a time when everyone else would have all lights off and see if the noise is gone.)

If you can determine that this could be the issue, maybe hit your neighbors one by one and see if you can isolate where the trouble is coming from. (maybe a buddy or assistant in your control room with you on cell phone as you move around turning off, or asking neighbors to, turn off lights)

If you can find the offending light, my guess is that this would be as simple as replacing the ballast, or installing an EMI filter on the ballast.

Google Florescent EMI Ballast, or Conducted EMI Interference, that should get you to some information on the subject.

I do not believe when turned off it could be creating problems unless you have some wild, out of order wiring problems.

Hi

The problem with basements is that many power distribution cable runs will be above you.

I suggest that you use a coil (e.g. poorly shielded guitar pick up) to search for the point where the buzzing signal is strongest.

This can at least point to the location of the cable carrying and radiating the signal.

Make sure you don't have a lamp dimmers switched on while you do this.... they are a terrible source of interference.

It sounds like you will need to call in an electrician and get landlord's permission, etc., but if you can demonstrate a strong location of the source, at least that's something they can go by.

I should mention that I took the fluorescent light bulbs out of the fixture entirely, and I now leave the switch turned off all the time. I don't know if the lightbulbs being absent from the fixture would cause any buzzing / interference. I doubt it, since it is turned off...

I will google those terms and research them a bit. I do still hear the buzzing even at late hours of the night when no other renters are in the offices in my hallway. Granted, there are still a few who come in late at night on the other side of the building (still in the basement area), as well as one who is all the way at the very end of the hallway, but even if the interference does happen to be coming from one of their rooms, and I could identify it, I doubt they would want me coming in and messing with their lights / making electrical installments. Worth a try though!

Mr. Geoff Tanner mentions the possibility that the interference is coming from a power distribution cable running above me... Does that sound like a strong possibility? I wonder how difficult to fix that would be, if that is indeed the case... I'm thinking I may need to bring in an electrician on this case, and pay him.

That's great advice, Geoff. Thank you. Do you think there is much of a chance that the interference I'm getting is being triggered by a fluorescent light fixture in an office nearby? Granted, I am usually in my office/studio at night, when most people aren't even there turning on lights, except for a couple of other renters whose offices are all the way down the hall from mine...

Thank you!

Hi

You need to document what you find so you can establish a pattern.

E.G.

Are there times/days when you don't get interference?

Are there times/days when interference is at its worse?

It doesn't matter how far away the others are if they are on the same phase as the wiring you are using.

Hi

Many years ago I was in a studio in Tel Aviv... that was in a basement too as basements were used as bomb shelters... and it was the basement of a tall building.

They had a recording console that buzzed like hell so I used a reel of wire as a search coil and fed it to extension bnc cable to my 'scope so I could walk around.

I found a strong field in the ceiling, in a straight line, that coincided with the busses in the console.

As it later transpired, that part of the basement went under the sidewalk of the street and the huge power cable that fed the building was under the sidewalk and above their studio.

They had to get the utility to move that cable.... a rather expensive process but it just goes to show that interference can be from a source outside the realm of a studio.

I had a strange buzzing/humming sound coming from my gear nest. It was loud. I could hear it from across the room. It seemed to be consistent no matter what I did with the system, including turning the PB volume all the way down (though going into powered, volume-control-less speakers). So finally powered down the speakers... and the buzz/hum remained. That eliminated a LOT of possibilities.

With the audio part of my rig powered down, there weren't too many more possibilities. I decided to power down my computer -- a low/mid tier Dell econo box with moderate computing power (i-333, 8 GB of RAM) -- but as soon as I laid hands on it -- it was healed.

It didn't take too much more fussing around to isolate the buzz to the USB/jack panel door on the front of the machine, a flimsy plastic thing on cheap hinges. From there, it was easy enough to damp the physical vibration oscillation.

But amazing how loud -- and 'electric' like that cheaply hinged door sounded when it went into [physical] oscillation.

I have now conducted a more thorough investigation. This will tell you everything you need to know about my situation. Thank you.

About my studio: My office/studio is located in the basement portion of a commercial office building, adjacent to other offices. I just moved in four months ago and got my studio set up, so it's a new space for me. The "buzzing" problem I describe in this post has always been there, since the time I arrived. I only record during evening hours, when not many people are in their offices (except maybe one or two, way down the hall). My office has a large fluorescent light fixture in the ceiling, but I removed the light bulbs and keep it completely turned off at all times. I use a lamp to light the room, instead. I use a Mac Mini computer from 2012 and an RME Fireface UCX as my interface, which is attached to a Rupert Neve R6 Chassi full of preamps. I have five main guitar amps that I use, and a handful of different guitars. I am using all new Mogami and Asterope cables for everything. Much of my gear is plugged into a Furman PL-8C power regulator.

NOTE: I have ALL my gear plugged into a grounded outlet.

Here are some of my findings, which may serve as clues:

-The amps still buzz even with NO guitar or instrument cable plugged in.
-Not all of the guitar amps exhibit the buzzing sound, but two of them did. The Vox AC-15 only buzzed when the Top Boost channel was turned up, whereas my 1979 JMP 50 2204 Marshall amp buzzed no matter what. The buzzing sounds they made were identical. The Fender Deluxe Reverb amp didn't buzz at all, that I could hear, nor did the Marshall JCM2000. If the JCM 800 2204 amp was buzzing, it was too quiet to really hear. The JMP 50 and the Vox AC15 were the main "buzzing" culprits. I decided to take the Vox home with me that night to test at my apartment, which is a different building / different location. I plugged it in at home, and the buzzing was non-existent. This seems to suggest that the buzzing was indeed being caused by something in my office/studio, not by faulty parts in the amp.
-There is buzzing in the DI of the RME interface when a guitar is plugged in, but no buzzing when no cable or guitar has been inserted. As soon as you insert a cable, the buzzing starts. I tried every guitar I have.
-The buzzing I'm getting is in no way related to a faulty cable. I tried many different ones, and they're all quite new and high quality anyway.
-There is buzzing in the background when recording a vocal through any given microphone (through a preamp that's connected to the interface via line input), but it is so faint that it's basically inaudible unless you're really, really looking for it; Not noticeable like the DI track buzzing, or the buzzing through my guitar amps.
-You hear the buzzing coming through the guitar amplifiers regardless of whether you're listening through a microphone hooked up in front of one of them, or listening in open air... In other words, the noise is coming out of the amp, not coming from just the microphone / interface.

I re-arranged the way everything in the studio was plugged in, and tried as many different "plugging" configurations as I could think up. Here are the things I tried. None of them worked, because the same buzzing occurred regardless. I kept my cell phone turned OFF for ALL of these tests, and unplugged any unneeded items like an extra table-lamp and a rotating fan:

-Plugged Vox AC-15 directly into wall outlet, with computer / RME interface / computer monitor / mouse / cell phone all turned completely off = Still buzzing
-Plugged Marshall JMP 50 directly into wall outlet, with computer / RME interface / computer monitor / mouse / cell phone all turned completely off = Still buzzing
-Computer + Computer monitor + RME interface all plugged into same power strip (not the Furman PL-8C), with nothing else plugged into that strip = Still buzzing (through both DI and guitar amps)
-Computer plugged into Furman, but Computer monitor + RME interface plugged into separate power strip = Still buzzing
-RME + Computer plugged into Furman, but Monitor plugged directly into wall = Still buzzing
-Computer + Monitor plugged into power strip (not Furman), but RME interface plugged into Furman = Still buzzing
-Computer plugged directly into wall, Monitor plugged directly into wall, RME plugged into the Furman = Still buzzing
-Computer plugged directly into wall, RME interface plugged directly into wall, and Computer monitor plugged directly into wall (in other words, they each had their own wall outlet), Mouse turned off and Mouse USB connector disconnected from the computer completely = STILL BUZZING

Let me know if you think I need to call an electrician over to take a look. Any thoughts would be great.

I've attached two sound clips of the problem I'm having, in this message. They are both plenty loud enough for you to be able to hear what's going on. One clip is the buzzing through the D/I input, with a guitar plugged in, and the other is the buzzing through the amp.

Thanks.

I have now conducted a more thorough investigation. This will tell you everything you need to know about my situation. Thank you.

About my studio: My office/studio is located in the basement portion of a commercial office building, adjacent to other offices. I just moved in four months ago and got my studio set up, so it's a new space for me. The "buzzing" problem I describe in this post has always been there, since the time I arrived. I only record during evening hours, when not many people are in their offices (except maybe one or two, way down the hall). My office has a large fluorescent light fixture in the ceiling, but I removed the light bulbs and keep it completely turned off at all times. I use a lamp to light the room, instead. I use a Mac Mini computer from 2012 and an RME Fireface UCX as my interface, which is attached to a Rupert Neve R6 Chassi full of preamps. I have five main guitar amps that I use, and a handful of different guitars. I am using all new Mogami and Asterope cables for everything. Much of my gear is plugged into a Furman PL-8C power regulator.

NOTE: I have ALL my gear plugged into a grounded outlet.

Here are some of my findings, which may serve as clues:

-The amps still buzz even with NO guitar or instrument cable plugged in.
-Not all of the guitar amps exhibit the buzzing sound, but two of them did. The Vox AC-15 only buzzed when the Top Boost channel was turned up, whereas my 1979 JMP 50 2204 Marshall amp buzzed no matter what. The buzzing sounds they made were identical. The Fender Deluxe Reverb amp didn't buzz at all, that I could hear, nor did the Marshall JCM2000. If the JCM 800 2204 amp was buzzing, it was too quiet to really hear. The JMP 50 and the Vox AC15 were the main "buzzing" culprits. I decided to take the Vox home with me that night to test at my apartment, which is a different building / different location. I plugged it in at home, and the buzzing was non-existent. This seems to suggest that the buzzing was indeed being caused by something in my office/studio, not by faulty parts in the amp.
-There is buzzing in the DI of the RME interface when a guitar is plugged in, but no buzzing when no cable or guitar has been inserted. As soon as you insert a cable, the buzzing starts. I tried every guitar I have.
-The buzzing I'm getting is in no way related to a faulty cable. I tried many different ones, and they're all quite new and high quality anyway.
-There is buzzing in the background when recording a vocal through any given microphone (through a preamp that's connected to the interface via line input), but it is so faint that it's basically inaudible unless you're really, really looking for it; Not noticeable like the DI track buzzing, or the buzzing through my guitar amps.
-You hear the buzzing coming through the guitar amplifiers regardless of whether you're listening through a microphone hooked up in front of one of them, or listening in open air... In other words, the noise is coming out of the amp, not coming from just the microphone / interface.

I re-arranged the way everything in the studio was plugged in, and tried as many different "plugging" configurations as I could think up. Here are the things I tried. None of them worked, because the same buzzing occurred regardless. I kept my cell phone turned OFF for ALL of these tests, and unplugged any unneeded items like an extra table-lamp and a rotating fan:

-Plugged Vox AC-15 directly into wall outlet, with computer / RME interface / computer monitor / mouse / cell phone all turned completely off = Still buzzing
-Plugged Marshall JMP 50 directly into wall outlet, with computer / RME interface / computer monitor / mouse / cell phone all turned completely off = Still buzzing
-Computer + Computer monitor + RME interface all plugged into same power strip (not the Furman PL-8C), with nothing else plugged into that strip = Still buzzing (through both DI and guitar amps)
-Computer plugged into Furman, but Computer monitor + RME interface plugged into separate power strip = Still buzzing
-RME + Computer plugged into Furman, but Monitor plugged directly into wall = Still buzzing
-Computer + Monitor plugged into power strip (not Furman), but RME interface plugged into Furman = Still buzzing
-Computer plugged directly into wall, Monitor plugged directly into wall, RME plugged into the Furman = Still buzzing
-Computer plugged directly into wall, RME interface plugged directly into wall, and Computer monitor plugged directly into wall (in other words, they each had their own wall outlet), Mouse turned off and Mouse USB connector disconnected from the computer completely = STILL BUZZING

Let me know if you think I need to call an electrician over to take a look. Any thoughts would be great.

I've attached two sound clips of the problem I'm having, in this message. They are both plenty loud enough for you to be able to hear what's going on. One clip is the buzzing through the D/I input, with a guitar plugged in, and the other is the buzzing through the amp.

Thanks.

Hi

Purchase one of those three prong three indicator power testers and check every socket in your room for correct wiring.

https://www.amazon.com/Sperry-Instru...+socket+tester

I had a similar buzzing problem in an old studio I was in. It turned out to be a dimmer way at the other end of the building. It took me months to track it down. It was easily 200-300 feet away.

Dimmers are particularly suspect. They tend to be better fully "on" than at "half dim", but you need to shut them off to shut them up. These things can be hard to track down because they don't need to be in the same room to mess you up.

Sometimes a dimmer goes "bad", and in my case the dimmer was "overworked" - it was a small "home" dimmer running all the House Lights for an auditorium. But the only good dimmer is an "off" dimmer.


If not specifically a dimmer, other things in your 'environment' can make buzzes. At the college where I teach the TV studio has a lot of hum problems. There are huge amounts of heavy duty power conduits for the lights running through the walls floor and ceiling. They are literally broadcasting 60 cycle. We learned that if a guitarist faces north, he will get about a tenth of the buzz as he would if he faces east!

I know a guy who had a personal studio in his apartment which was very close to the Empire State Building. The broadcasting from the tower there kept bleeding into his gear. I think we have a GS member who was having trouble from an electric fence for cattle near his property.

I did that, actually. The outlets I used for all of the testing I did are indeed properly wired / grounded... Or at least, the three-pronged plug-in tester (which you're describing) showed them as being properly grounded.

I'll do a final test of that again before moving to a new location.
It just sucks. I just got everything set up and now it's looking like I may have to move.

Is it not hard enough that we spend tens of thousands of dollars on gear, and a lot of work treating the room properly for sound, only to then be faced with the practical impossibility of even using the room to record in because of a tiny buzzing sound outside of our control?! Amazing. I will NEVER rent a room again before thoroughly testing the outlets AND my gear for buzzing, before moving in. I've never used a "commercial office" to record in before. It seems that these building are fraught with troubles, electrically speaking.

It is starting to feel like my only option, here, could be to move.

What about an isolation transformer box? I see the "Tripp Lite IS1000 Isolation Transformer" for sale online. Do you think my problem could be coming from an earth loop? If so, maybe an isolation transformer could help. Thoughts?

yes these things can be quite difficult to track down. I even ran extension cords to other rooms in my building trying to find if it was "just me".


I only found the dimmer because one afternoon I had the buzz and suddenly it stopped and I RAN out of my studio and down the hall and saw the security guard coming out of the auditorium. I said: "what did you just turn off" and thus I learned about this dimmer.


the building I was in was a former elementary school. Many layers of electrical work were there. My room had glass fuses. I had a panel that had a tag that said: "William Hasbrouck - Electragist". IOW it was so old, it was before the word "Electrician" was settled upon!

For fun google Electragist

Hi

Unless you can borrow it to test its usefullness, it's an expensive bandaid to fix a broken leg.

Hi

Light dimmers are spawn of Satan to recording environments. That's why pro studios use Variacs.




[QUOTE=joeq;12581429
I only found the dimmer because one afternoon I had the buzz and suddenly it stopped and I RAN out of my studio and down the hall and saw the security guard coming out of the auditorium. I said: "what did you just turn off" and thus I learned about this dimmer.
[/QUOTE]

The place where I work now has rows of Variacs for all the lights. They are so heavy, the wall had to be specially reinforced to support them, but no hums!

The variac is the only device that actually dimms... the things people call dimmers are actually just cutting a part of the cycle out wich results in nasty spikes.

An isolation transformer will not cure groundloops as it will only sit on the phase and neutral of the powerline, but usually you don't get groundloops from external sources if power is the only thing that is shared... now if there is more lines shared like TV signal / internet wich also carry a ground, that's where a groundloop with the neighbours can happen.

Interesting... That sounds like it could be happening, in my case.