Everybody knows the disadvantage of the Hot Rod Deluxe is that it is overpowered. To get the best tone out of it requires volume levels that are too loud for practically any indoor venue. I've read in this forum and others various ways to "power down" an HR Deluxe, ranging from changing tubes, speakers, attenuators, etc. After much thought I've decided not to go any of those routes. What I'd like to do instead is find a lesser-powered amp that doesn't require such high volume in order for the power tubes to start breaking up nicely. Of course, I don't want to go too low and risk being lost in the band mix in medium-sized clubs either. Also, I don't want an amp that is incapable of getting a nice Fender clean sound at a decent volume when rolling off guitar volume. I also have a clean boost pedal that I can use to boost the clean (post-Tube Screamer) or overdrive the signal (pre-Tube Screamer), depending on which I need. I'm currently looking at a Fender SuperSonic 22 and an Egnater Rebel 30. Any suggestions on other low-powered class AB amps under $1000?

why not a deluxe or princeton reverb? tried and true.

Yeah, I should probably check out the Deluxe Reverb too. But a Princeton is only 12 watts. Is that really going to cut it in a medium-sized club?

No. Lesser powered amps don't end up being particularly quieter. Even a little 2wt job that uses preamp tubes as power tubes is loud as piss. Moving from a 40wt to 20 won't even be a blip. I literally HAVE an amp that is switchable between 20 and 40...it changes the sound (less low end at 20wt)...it's the stuff of subtle difference in FEEL more than a volume drop.

If you need power tube saturation independent of volume, you need an amp with power scaling tech built in...or an attenuator as a distant second.

I had a hot rod deluxe..even had it modded. I have a egnater tweaker. Just picked up a Vox AC15 handwired. Awesome amp. I use the 15 watt for recording, which is loud but might not have quite enough power for stage use. Then again it might fly...you'd have to test drive one to see if it has enough volume for you. They make a 30 watt version which might just do it, but it's over a grand unless you could find a good used one. I picked mine up b-stock for well under a grand. The tonal variations on this thing are amazing. I never loved my hr deluxe. The guy who modded it held up a hand full of parts when I picked it up and said "cheap chinese junk." His exact words and he had a great pile of vintage amps sitting in his shop that he was working on, so I think he knew what he was talking about.
L.

what kind of music are you playing? how many people in the band? Are there any other guitarists in the band? How hard does the drummer hit?

Litepipe has asked the important questions! I can go to band practice with my little Marshall MG15R and be fine because the drummer doesn't try to kill the drums. I've used a Pro Jr. and my Champ clone (both 5 watt tube amps) before in jam sessions, the amps were cranked but the drummer wasn't a heavy hitter either. I agree with the Blues Jr. by default, but you will probably put some pedals in front of it (not that it's a bad thing).

But if you want to get down, my friend has one of these amps and it does rock n' roll well:
Top Hat Club Royale | eBay

The new turret board built AC15HW with Greenback or Blue is the best value in a production amp.

You could also look at the Reeves Custom 18 & 30

Bad Cat Classic Deluxe or Black Cat 15 R.

Blues and 70s classic rock. Five piece band, two guitarists. Drummer hits soft/medium.

Let me re-emphasize what I said above: I still need the ability to clean up on rhythm on some songs (Think Eagles rhythm guitar). Even if a 15-watt amp can cut through a band when cranked up, wouldn't overdrive be your only option by then?

Let me also repeat that my budget is under $1000, since some suggestions have been double that.

We all went through the Sticker Shock of what it costs to buy professional quality guitar amps these days, something rugged and reliable and highly versatile, doesn't come cheap.

If your Blues Deluxe is too loud, you could try a Weber 12A125A low efficiency speaker.

That's going to cut your volume by close to 30% over a modern high efficiency speaker.

If the HRD is too bright for you, install an Eminence C-Rex to control those highs.
You won't lose volume, but you'll control the ice picks.

40 watts is actually about right for most smaller clubs unless you're talking coffee houses. Then you can always use a tilt stand to direct the volume or face the amp cross stage or even into the curtains to control volume in smaller venues.

Mesa TA-15 or TA-30. In the same vein as the Tweaker, but adjustable wattages.

If your going to mic the amp, running through a full PA and having the amp in the monitor mix, then I don't see a wattage problem. If stage volume dictates watt the band and the audience hears, then I wouldn't really go too far below the wattage you have especially if you are worried about a clean tone because you can always use pedals to get dirty. I think you should check out a used Deluxe Reverb, I would look for one around $500-600. Maybe a Budda SD 18? Maybe a used Vox?

Buy a new Blues Junior at a store with a strong return policy.

Try it out with the band and see how it holds up against live drums.

If you can't hear yourself and you have to dig in hard to get enough volume, then you know you need more power or IEMs.

Bigger issue is that the HR Deluxe just isn't a good amp. It was built to a price point, and has issues.

A Deluxe Reverb at 22 watts of 6V6 is going to get you power tube distortion much earlier than a 6L6 amp (your HR Deluxe) based on how the amps are built. Cleans will be exactly what you need, and you can get grit with some volume, and the rest of the way there with an overdrive pedal (less gain, more volume) to hit the input harder. I've gigged with a Princeton Reverb, but that was with a full PA and monitors. Normally I now use my Tremolux, but for crunch I use pedals.

There are factors that can affect this. That's why I asked all those questions. In some situations 15watts will be plenty, but.... It really depends on the band itself. I have found when there is more then 1 electric guitarist in the band I need more wattage. It becomes a lot harder to cut for leads. Especially if the other guitarists tone isn't great (to much distortion/compression, poor eq).

If the other guitarist plays acoustic they wont sonically compete.

The drummer makes a difference. And the tuning of the drums. How much space is the drummer eating up?

I have played in venues with a princeton and a blues band. The Princeton was dimed for loud bits but I rolled back the volume to clean up. Cleaned up well, but prob. not enough headroom for you. As suggested you should check out a Deluxe Reverb Reissue. They sit in a really good place of being clean and can break up a little if you really want. It's doubtful you'll get it on or above 7 in any club.

That will give you the proper headroom for your clean sounds. My main amp is 25 watts. I play all kinds of stages with it. From large festivals/theaters to clubs. In a small club I can rarely get it to the level I want. I like it to break up. But it still works great. I haven't run out of clean headroom with it yet.

40 watts is overkill for most things these days.

In most band situations I find 15 watts to fall a little short. I don't like guitar in the monitors. I like to hear stage volume. 15 gets eaten up in a louder rock band setting.

The same 40 watts through 2X10's in a Vibrolux Reverb sounds like a dream.

If you're playing really picky venues, then sure 20 watts is about max unless the user
knows how to control their rig in any situation.

Deluxe Reverb or 18 Watt Marshall Circuit is still a ripping little kit, but you have a bit
more clean headroom than a Princeton or AC15.

I still prefer Fenders through 10's always have.

My little 21 watt Ampeg Reverberocket has been turned into the curtains to tame it
at Jammin Java.

With a strong house PA and exceptional monitoring you can make 12 or 15 watter work
but the band has to be very disciplined on stage volume.


Here caught The Pete Best Group also at Jammin Java
The guitar are both going through 15 watt Industrial Amps.
Ugly as sin, but they sounded pretty good.

Especially 15 watt amps with 2 drummers.

I mentioned the Bad Cat Classic Cat R & Black R because they are perfect, hand wired, made in USA.
The Reeves Also hand wired, made in USA.

Budget wise the only thing that comes close in a small club worthy amp is the
Newest Turret Board, Vox AC15HWX. $1200-$1500.00 depending on speaker.

If you want a Fender, get a real Fender, at least a hand wired Silver Face.
Spend $300.00 to refurbish and you've got the real deal.

Agreed. Down the line I plan to upgrade again. Right now I'm only concerned with upgrading slightly (with a lesser powered amp). There are indeed some nice amps in the under $2000 range out there. Maybe in a year or two!

However, there's no way of knowing if I'd be satisfied with the resulting tone. I really don't want to start pumping money into experimenting with changes to this amp that I may not even be satisfied with. I'd rather buy something I like out of the box.

At least the AC15HW base model for $1200.00 with the Greenback should last you a while.
Because it is turret board construction, if something does go,
even years down the road
it can still be fixed with off the shelf parts.

You won't be buying another disposable amp that way.

Over the useful life of the amp, that extra $200.00 is well worth it.

Out of my price range of under $1000, and not Class AB amps.

The AC15HW is Class A, but in a good way, making it very touch sensitive to pick dynamics. Cathode Biased.

Class A/B has a bit more clean headroom and are fixed bias.

Oops, I should limit further. I'm specifically looking for 6V6 amps. However, I'm not ruling out Vox ACs entirely.

The TA-15 is switchable 5 watts or 15 watts Class A or 25 watts AB, and sells for $799. You'd need a cab, though.

Yes, I do like to have the option to drive the amp further not only with a pedal, set like you mention, but with a clean boost in front of that pedal. That combination with the HR Deluxe is just WAY too loud. I'll definitely throw a Deluxe Reverb into the mix of amps to try out, although I'd have to find a good deal on one somewhere. Thanks!

We never mic guitars indoors unless it's a very large place

FWIW, based on my experience of playing for years in a cover band with a house gig (155+nights per year), I found that versatility was far more important than getting a perfect power section overdrive, which is actually pretty limiting unless you play with the same tone and volume all night long.

I used a rack rig with a 100 watt power amp, and for about 70% of the time that amp wan't being pushed much at all. I got all of my clean, crunch, and distortion tones from a tube preamp, and in the band mix it sounded very good. For those last sets on weekends when the place was packed, I was able to open up the power section and it truly was glorious, but I couldn't do that all night long because our stage and PA volume was always influenced by the size of the crowd.

So, for me, my preference is always to have a bit more power than necessary and not worry so much about trying to hit that very narrow window where power tube crunch and overall volume have to be closely balanced.

Thanks to those of you who suggested the Fender Deluxe Reverb. I'll try it out. I initially balked at it because good new ones can be expensive and they don't have a lead channel. However, there are some to be had in my price range and I can always get whatever extra with my clean boost and Tube Screamer pedals. Heck, I may even find myself using the pedals less with a good amp! I was originally considering a Super-Sonic because of its versatility. Will a Deluxe Reverb more than make up for lack of versatility with a good solid starting tone?