Hi,

Currently I'm using the following gear in my home studio :-

- 2x Warm TB12 with Hardy 990c+ opamps
- Klark Teknik KT-2a with upgraded Kenetek T4b opto and Harma Retro tubes
- Klark Teknik 76-KT
- 2x Klark Teknik EQP-KT with upgraded Harma Retro tubes
- DACS HeadLite 2 headphone amp

I have no complaints about any of these but to be honest since Covid, I'm just not using it all. Most people I've worked with have bought interfaces and mics themselves so I’m mainly mixing and doing very little tracking.
As a result I'm thinking of scaling things down as I'm not using a lot of the equipment!
I still do the odd vocal tracking here and occasionally have a guitarist and bass player around so I would still like something for tracking and am considering a channel strip as I particularly like to use some subtle compression and very occasionally a touch of EQ on the way in.
My main vocal and bass chain has been :-

- Vangaurd V13 tube mic > Warm TB12 > Klark Teknik KT-2a > Motu 828es. I also have one of the Klark Teknik EQP-KT's connected to a pre converter TRS send so I can simultaneously record with and without EQ onto 2 separate tracks in Cubase.

For guitar and some other vocals I use pretty much the same chain but replace the KT-2a for the 76-KT.

I only record one person at a time here but also have the excellent built in preamps on the Motu in case I need to track more than one person on a very rare occasion!

I've been looking around at the various channel strip options and the Art Pro Channel looks like a possible option as it has good reviews and has a lot of built in features. The next option up would be quite a step up in price such as the SPL Channel One and FrontLiner etc which cost three-four times the price of the ART Pro Channel II!
However, am I going too cheap with the ART?
What are your thoughts on the ART Pro Channel II?
Will this be a step down in "quality" from what I already have?
Is something like the SPL Frontliner worth four times the price?

Alternatively, I'm considering keeping the KT-2a and 76-KT compressors, keep one TB12 or possibly replace with Cranborne EC-1 and selling the EQP-KTs.

What would you recommend?

Any thoughts on the couple of options I mentioned?

The most used pieces of equipment that I own are the TB12, KT-2a, 76-KT and DACs Headlite 2. I don’t really use the Klark EQP-KT’s a lot at the moment but will probably try them out on buses (though I tend to prefer doing all the mixing ITB).
I could probably get by without the DAC’s Headlite if I change my my tracking headphones to either the 32ohm or 80ohm version. If I do this, the Art Pro Channel 2 may be all I need. This would also free up some money to potentially upgrade my monitors or buy a better studio desk?
The more expensive option would be to keep the KT-2a & 76-KT and replace the rest with a Cranborne EC1 or EC2. This would appear to be a higher quality preamp than the Pro Channel II and probably my TB12’s! However, this would leave less cash for upgrades in other areas.

I have had singers here in the past who have done vocal tracking sessions that I’ve then sent on to major national studios for different clients and have had great comments on the quality of the recordings I’ve sent. I don’t want to compromise on this as there is potential for more of this work in the future.

Will the Art Pro Channel II be a step down from what I already have?
What makes most sense from a business point of view?

Upgrading the monitors is probably a good idea (dunno what you have though).. and improving the the acoustics of your room as well..

If it was me I’d sell all what you don’t use and buy a good channelstrip or a versatile simple chain that will last for years and that is a high quality piece.

An old used Amek CIB might be a good start..
Building slowly a quality 500 series chain as well (Avedis MA5, Electrodyne 511, api550a, Tree Audio Comp)..
an Aurora GTQC?
or a Crane Song Europa and a Dave Hill Titan (maybe used?)
Or a Used Pendulum Quartet..

Or improving your front end with a better mic (although what you have is pretty good, especially for its price)..
A Neumann? Schoeps? Horch?

But I’d not sell a bunch of (quite) cheap stuff to buy other (different) cheap stuff..?
What’s the point?

Buy once, but good.. (whatever it is..)

benefit in the long run:
you spend less money “upgrading” and spend less time “guessing if”..

benefit in the short term:
everything you track sounds right from the get go, sits better in the track and sounds more “finished”, probably also require less time mixing and fiddling with plugs to “fix it”..

I hope this helps,



Cheu

Thanks Cheu.

We’ve spoken before on my monitors

My monitors are already very good as I have a pair of Neumann KH120’s and an Eve TS108 sub. If I were to upgrade these I would be going for the Neumann KH310’s. However, these are way out of my budget.
The KH120’s are actually a good match for my room already as it’s pretty small. The sub isn’t used for critical monitoring.
I’m also happy with my mics (Vanguard V13, Shure KSM32, JZ V11, AT4040 and Miktek MK300).

Overall I’m very satisfied with the audio quality of my mics, preamps and Klark compressors.

I like the idea of selling the TB12’s, EQP-KT’s and DACS Headlite 2 to replace them with a Cranborne EC2 as this looks to be a step up from the TB12’s with excellent specs. I like the sound of the Mojo circuit in the online demos I’ve heard and this adds noticeably more tonal variation than the TB12. Also, the onboard headphone amps would replace my DACS Headlite. I tend to mainly use the Klark EQP-KT when tracking bass if they are sounding pretty dull and lifeless. I was also considering trying them out on buses for mixing but I’m probably just going to stay ITB for mixing.

One other option I’ve considered is to sell the TB12’s, EQP-KT’s and DACS Headlite and buy a single WA73eq?

I am still on the fence about what to do with my outboard.

My biggest question is would the Art Pro Channel II be a step down in audio quality from my current TB12, Klark compressors and EQ's?

It is looking more like I'm just going to be just using one channel for recording as most of my working now is mixing and using vsti's ITB.
I'm really happy with the quality of what I already have but just don't see myself using some of it anymore.
I mainly need one decent preamp for vocal, bass, guitar tracking. I like to use a little compression when tracking and the Klark KT-2a and 76-KT have been surprisingly good. On rarer occasions I use a small hint of EQ.
I already have two very good clean preamps in my Motu 828es interface so would like something with a little character to contrast.

I know a few studios that use the ART Pro MPA-II and Pro VLA-II alongside some very high end gear and they speak very highly about these. The Pro Channel-II uses exactly the same preamp and compressor as those with an additional eq that appears to be more flexible than the EQP-KT. The ART Pro MPA II was a shock favorite in the SOS preamp shootout against much higher end units :-

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/preamp-post-mortem

I found this track where everything was recorded with the Pro Channel-II

https://youtu.be/pNEexbqOOHs

Obviously this doesn't tell the whole story about the quality of the Pro Channel II but any discrepancies would be about the mix rather than the quality of the Pro Channel II?

If the ART PRO Channel II isn't going to be a step down in audio quality/performance I would sell 2x TB12's, 2x EQP-KT's, KT-2a, 76-KT and DAC's Headlite. This would free up the most budget to put towards upgrading in more important areas for my work.

My other options are to :-

- Just keep 1x TB12 and both Klark KT-2a and 76-KT. Sell 1x TB12, 2x EQP-KT's and DAC's Headlite.

- Sell 2x TB12's, 2x EQP-KT's and DAC's Headlite and buy Cranborne EC1

You say you only need one channel, but you're still looking at stereo units? Why not put double the money into one channel? Proceeding on that assumption, there are some really great channel strips out there. There are also some really awful ones. What's the difference? About 2000 bucks. But, hey, that's the difference between a boutique manufacturer giving it their best shot and someone building something with the same knob count in Asia. Tools vs toys. Now you understand my bias and can take or leave what follows.

Replacing post-Behringer KT stuff with similar stuff from ART seems like pretty much a lateral move to me. I just don't know why you'd bother. Is your apartment really so small that using four rack spaces instead of six matters to you? Personally, I'd just stand pat until I could afford something great. Then you'll be down to 1 or 2 RU, but way up in sound quality. Here are some candidates:

• API Channel Strip Love it or hate it, you know this sound. If it's your thing, look no further.
• Aurora Audio GTQC I wanted to leave this one out because its maker is has been *ahem* scrubbing the pooch on customer support lately. But I just can't ignore the sound, a brilliantly-modern take on classic Neve with a very unusual dual-mode compressor.
• Grace Design m103 Strictly business here. All the knobs you'd expect and each one does exactly what the label says. No vibe, no bull$h^t, no trouble, fits in 1 RU. My favorite live sound money channel, and at a really fair price.
• Manley Core Reference Strip Who knew that Manley could build something worthy of their reputation at this price point? Not even the Goddess of Thermionic Emissions herself. But she and her team buckled down and did it. As is typical, there's a learning curve but you won't regret the investment.
• Millennia STT-1 Origin You thought Millennia was just about squeaky clean? Think again! This thing offers a huge degree of sonic flexibility, yet somehow you can never make it sound bad. They've been out long enough that you can find used ones at a decent price and they have a great service department if anything ever goes wrong.
• RND Shelford Channel Think of it as Sir Rupert's final and best statement of what pro audio is all about. Modern enough for today's productions, but still with a sonic nod to history. A fitting epitaph for a great designer.
• Tree Audio Branch II A truly impeccable tube channel strip with one of the best vocal limiters around. Wait, three rack spaces and no midrange EQ? Dude, just listen to it!

David

Thanks for posting your thoughts. Unfortunately I can't justify spending around £2000 on a channel strip. Also, like I said my current setup is working great and the clients the clients that I've sent recordings to in very high end studios have commented on how great the audio quality was.

If I need to upgrade the "quality" of the preamp, the Cranborne EC1 is arguably as good as many high end pres.

One of the reasons why I'm considering scaling down is to free up budget to spend on areas which would benefit more from being upgraded.

I have serious respect for the Cranborne folks, and I think an EC1 would serve you well. The ART VLA had a reputation for punching above its weight class, but is it better or worse than a KT or Warm clone? I dunno; never used any of them. I only buy stuff with good after-sale factory support. I email John La Grou at Millennia and get a reply the same afternoon. If you call Manley with a technical question, they might very well route you to EveAnna. The Bricasti folks phoned me three times in one afternoon when my M7 reverb had an issue. Yeah, gear from these companies costs serious coin, but they also treat their customers seriously. Most of my audio work involves recording one-time events, and I can not afford to own gear I can't rely on.

David

I agree with David above.. and as I said already in my original post, don’t invest in another cheap chain.. there’s no sense in that.
Sell what you don’t need or like.

You could also buy used if budget is tight..
or keep 1 channel of what you have and wait until you can raise a little bit more to get something great on the used market.

Look at stuff that I or David Rick mentioned..
a used ADT channelstrip could be another great contender.
I’d even go so far to suggest an Avalon channelstrip.. it’s a solid piece and can be found for reasonable amounts used.
Or get a lunchbox, and build it slowly with high quality stuff.

I hope this helps,



Cheu

Thanks Cheu. I do hear what your saying but I really don’t think I can justify the cost of something more high end, especially as I’m already getting great comments on the quality I’m already getting!

If the preamp, compressor and eq in the ART Pro Channel II is no worse than what I already have, I would have thought this would make more sense as it would give me all I need whilst freeing up more money to invest in gear that will get used a lot more?

Why not keep what you have? Just one channel.. sell the rest and save some more for future “upgrades” or enjoy life.





Cheu

I have had the Mike E by Empirical Labs for some time. It doesn't have an EQ but nice pre and comp

Ive had those art channels and didnt care for them. Id say what you have is better with the KT2A and a pre.

dumping the outboard gear, I'd get a nice preamp and go ITB, theres not the need for the outboard anymore if you dont want it.
Its a preference these days not a requirement. imo
I already did what you are talking about and Im finding its easier doing the EQ and Compression in the box too vs channel strip, and getting the room quiet is easier than working with the gate on. the channel strip....so for me the channel strip could work if you have some demanding need to track with it finished, like recording to reel to reels? but my 2 cents is its easier to do the EQ Plugins and Comp plugins later on playback.

LA610, Emperical Labs Mike E, Focusrite 430, Art Channels, Joe Meek channels new and old, Symetrix, and others I dont remember...lol
I have a few Channel Strips in software too and at least you can "save as" and recall.
I do like having the solid preamp though, and knobs, but most can do fine with ITB preamps too.

Maybe get a Great River preamp ....that Art Transformer pre looks well done... its Gearslutz! buiy more gear!! more plugins! more mics!

As long as you don't want to invest into a LA-610 or similar channel-strips, I would stay with what you have. I have a LA-610 MKII and a Warm Audio TB12, WA EQP, WA76 and KT-LA2A. Use them 80% for recording bass and 20% recording synths and vocals.
The LA-610 isn't that much better than the WA/KT chain, but I like it a lot. Kind of teached me that tubes only make a difference I like, if you invest into it.
The Art Pro Channel - although nice to have - will be a step down.

Thanks guys. I know one award winning producer who owns the UA LA610 but prefers tracking vocals through the Cranborne into a Klark KT-2a (with upgraded Kenetek optocell).
I could just sell the EQP-KT’s, one of my TB12’s and possibly the DAC’s Headlite. However, I hear great things about the Cranborne preamps and really like the sound of the Mojo circuit in the demos. Also, the specs are extremely impressive. I think if I were to make any changes, I would likely keep the Klark compressors but replace the TB12’s, EQP-KT’s and DAC’s Headlite with a Cranborne EC1. I like the sound of the Mojo circuit from the online audio demos and using the Thump circuit could help add more weight to some bass guitars. I could connect the Klark compressors to the pre-converter TRS sends and have the flexibility of being able to track with and without compression.

I do feel slightly nervous about the ART ProChannel II as it offers so many features for around £400!? I do wonder where corners have been cut and how this will affect the audio quality and reliability? However, there are a lot of very positive reviews and from a few audio clips that I’ve heard, it certainly doesn’t sound bad.

There is aged argument for a single high end channel. Unless it is a stereo source or I’m using more than one mic, everything goes thru my RND portico II. If something doesn’t sound good,I don’t have to worry about that hardware. But I have a warm based stereo input too, and it works fine, as your pro friends say.

If you don’t need stereo (have you tried mixing or mastering thru your hardware?) I’d wait to sell any 2nd units until you can buy a high end unit. Really, the sound might not be radically different but it is a nice ride, since I know you are in for the long haul.
@

I've used the RND Portico II channel strip and a Focusrite Liquid Channel which both cost significantly more than my current pres. I wasn't particularly impressed with the Liquid Channel at all and whilst the Portico II did sound really good, I actually preferred the Warm TB12 on the particular vocalists I was working with at the time!

I have to admit that the Cranborne EC1 option does look and sound very appealing. I love the fact that it offers so much flexibility with extremely low noise. From the audio clips that I've heard, the two different Mojo circuits offer way more tonal variation than the different options in the Warm TB12!? Also, I can see the Thump being more useful when wanting to add more weight than using a simple EQ because it reacts dynamically to the source? Finally, the EC1 will still give me one very high quality headphone amp for driving my high impedance headphones.

The Cranborne EC1 packs a lot of quality for their price and features for sure, can’t go wrong.
The other inexpensive clean preamp that I can think of that offer a great quality is the Integer XMP-2 (and their ribbon pre, if you don’t need phantom power).

Keep your warm (I can’t believe I’m suggesting this LOL) and get the Cranborne, if that’s what you want. Then YOU could decide if you still need the warm or can be sold

Sell what you don’t need and don’t worry too much.

This is a process and you might need to go through this.. like most of us.

Make sone great music with whatever you get, that’s the thing that matter.



Cheu

Thanks Cheu. Yes the Cranborne does pack in a lot of features for sure!

Out of curiosity, where do you feel the Warm Audio products are lacking compared to some of your other suggestions? I've been really impressed with the TB12 and it sounds great in the Warm Audio audio clips on their site. What am I missing about the audio quality of the TB12 vs the other recommendations on here? I have tried some much cheaper preamps and admit they can get harsh when driven harder, make sibilance stand out more and sound thinner at higher gain settings. However, I'm not really hearing this with the TB12 compared to those?

Owning some WA gear and the UA LA610 I have to agree.
I'm not overwhelmed by the EQPT from Warm Audio, but the WA76 and the Tonebeast are really great imo.

Yes. I hear issues with some cheap preamps compared to high end pieces but I can’t say I’m hearing this with the TB12? I fact it sounds great to my ears. I’ve not had any clients or studios complain about the audio quality of the tracks I’m giving them but am happy to learn from others with more knowledge and experience

I’ve changed the X18 opamps in my TB12 to the Hardy 990c+ and whilst the differences are subtle, I hear a little more clarity and a little more bandwidth.

i don't see the need to collect lower-end stuff. it takes up space, ties up money, and just gives you more ways to produce mediocre results. i would sell all of it and get one good thing.

Yes I hear this but I’ve used preamps such as the £3600 Neve Portico 2 and honestly couldn’t hear why it costs 10x the price I paid for the TB12!? However, I can hear the difference between cheap Behringer preamps and the TB12. I hear how at higher gain settings the sound gets noticeably thinner, harsher, noisier and emphasises sibilance.

This track was mostly tracked with the Warm TB12

https://youtu.be/qAJYa8GXJ_Q

I would be very grateful for someone to point out why a £2000 preamp would sound better than the TB12

What I’m saying is:
IF you’re not happy with what you have now (otherwise this thread should not exist, I guess) then it might be worth to look into a piece that:

1. YOU really like (and suits your needs)
2. It will last a long time and it’s a quality piece (that will stop your “need” to upgrade, simply because at a certain level you might find more appropriate a certain piece than another, for YOUR taste and needs, but it is hardly so that the xyz preamp will not perform decently enough, nowadays).

IF you’re happy with your tb12, then it’s good! You’re happy and it’s not a very expensive preamp.. win-win for you
Reduce/sell what you don’t need, get just what you need.

Since you were shuffling the cards in your studio, I (and others, I imagine) thought that it might be good to improve things, IF possible.

I’m not surprised to hear that something from rnd is not worth the price asked.. (that doesn’t mean it’s bad, just not worthed the asking price for what you get imho).

As said above IF you’re happy with your tb12 and want to add a cleaner pre (with a rather low budget yet a good quality, there are very few options, and the ones that seems ticking all your boxes, also regarding the headphones out, quite special, it’s the cranborne, and it’s very well made for the price asked).. there are 2 others that comes to mind, but they don’t have the headphone out.

I’d say that there are preamps that are incredible from the get go (some are very expensive, like the vintage neves, some are still expensive but given their quality, quite reasonable)..

I’d add the modular vintage VintageTools Danner cassettes channelstrip to the second category, with telefunken or Lawo preamp, Neumann 3band eq and the neumann comp/limiter
( https://www.vintagetools.de/VT-Racks...73a-white.html )
Some of the other mentioned above in my other posts are also worth considering.
If this is going to be better is also a matter of needs and taste..
you have a decent/good selection of mics..and you seem happy with them..
There might be better mics (like schoeps, and some usual suspects), BUT maybe you DON’T “need” them to reach the results that YOU like.

And while every part of the chain plays a role, the room, the mics, and your monitoring system are going to be the first priority..

after that the preamp might also bring you closer to what you want (and because of the quality of the room/mic/monitoring system), you might be able to better discern what YOU need/want (and what the differences are, some maybe rather small) and get the results faster and with less fiddling with itb plugs after the fact.. BUT the preamp it’s not the be all end all piece, just a part of the chain.

Warm does have a couple of products that are actually ok (especially thinking at the price), some others are more of a gimmick or a “marketing trick”, of course they have to cut corners to reach that price.. also are not innovators, and their work is mainly coping other stuff as cheap as possible to still reach decent results. (Although I have to admit that maybe the tb12 is probably their best effort, was also one of the first ones, if I remember correctly).

But this goes into a direction that have nothing to do with your case or with music, it’s more about me liking to support small businesses that try to come up with high quality stuff (that can last decades and keep their value over time), while filling a real need in the market.

Sorry for the long post,
I hope some of it make sense and might help you in one way or another,



Cheu

Some of the WA stuff is really great - not low end at all. Esp. the TB12 is just great. And I still have problems coping with the quality of the KT-2A for this low price.
Some - not all - of the Warm Audio gear and the newer products from GAP are worlds apart from cheap low end stuff decades ago.
The difference between a UA unit for 3.000,- might still be there but it is much smaller than many people expect.

Thanks guys. Yes I am really happy with how everything sounds. My original query was would something like the Art Pro Channel II do just as good a job as my TB12, Klark compressors and EQ? If it does, I would have a hard time justifying keeping them considering the amount of tracking that I do these days. It would also free up a reasonable amount of money to invest in other areas of greater importance.

I do feel the Warm TB12 performs particularly well and is working great for what I’m doing. One thing I don’t like about budget preamps is how harsh they can get and exaggerate sibilance! I had a GAP Pre73 and the saturation sounds really fizzy and ess’s could get a little s*****. The TB12 is the first preamp I’ve used that doesn’t suffer from this. The highs sound smooth and detailed without getting harsh. Also, I find the tech support from Warm to be very responsive indeed when I’ve had a few queries.
The Cranborne is said to improve on this and sounds really clean without creating problems with ess’s. It also has lower noise (though, I’ve not encountered any hiss with the TB12 on anything yet!). Also, the Cranborne can sound a lot more coloured than the TB12 and both colours that it offers with the Mojo section sound very nice indeed! Also, when you turn up the Mojo section it doesn’t add any noise to the signal so you can really crank it up and add a lot of colour with extremely low noise!! The mojo circuit provides enough colour for me to not warrant keeping the EQP-KT’s for tracking.

I feel confident that the Cranborne wouldn’t be a step down from what I already own but not so much regarding the Art. From the audio clips I’ve heard, the Pro Channel II does sound very good but I just can’t see how they can cram so much in for £430 vs £549 for the EC1 and £569 for the TB12!!?? If it can match the audio performance of what I already own and will be as reliable it would be a no-brained?

The only way for you to find out is to test the units at your place, see if you can arrange things with a dealer.. as said it’s a process, and there’s no other way to go through it.

Regarding the ess’s (sibilance), I found that the best preamp in “controlling” them (or not exagerating them) while staying clean and open was the Forssell SMP-2 (and it’s 500 series counterpart smp-500).

But sibilance is coming from the previous stages, the performer, the room and the capture/positioning and mic itself. The preamp might help to bring that freq band out more or less, but I’d say it’s not the real culprit.

Maybe you already found your nirvana with the tb12 (and I’m not joking, maybe it’s the right piece for you and your taste/vision/needs).. that’s a great thing!

But I suggest to test out stuff in your place, it’s the best thing to do.

What if I tell you that the art channelstrip (or any other brand really, expensive or dirt cheap) is the best channelstrip ever made..?
You might get it and find out that for your needs/taste is not that great..

So test stuff for yourself, if you have the chance.



Cheu

Don't sell and move sideways. The only reasonable thing to do is:

1. Sell the pieces and buy one high-end pre
2. Keep everything.

There are allot of options around 1k if you're only looking for one really nice pre. I would personally want a stereo channel just in case though. I like my A design Pacifica. Could be had for around 1k used. Also like my GAP 73dlx. Great quality and features, 600$. The GAP is probably the best value pre you can get sub 1k if you're not into soldering yourself. Blaming a pre for your vocals being sibilant is more about the mic then anything else. A Neve style pre will push the mids though the Pacifica is smoother more laid back in the mids which you might appreciate

I haven't tried the KT stuff but been disappointed with the WA stuff. Buy wise, buy once.

Yes I fully agree, I need to try them here

Yes I agree that the issue firstly comes from the source etc. However, some preamps I've tried can make it even worse that can be extremely difficult to deal with in the mixing stage.

I'm definitely not ruling the TB12 out as like I said it is already working out great so far. If the Cranborne both gives me results I like even more whilst also removes the need to keep my DAC's HeadLite and Klark EQP-KT's then it will be a worthwhile move
As much as I want to think the ART Pro Channel II will match what I already have, I think this is a case of too good to be true!

I was really impressed with the Focusrite ISA430 mk2 when I tried it. They used to be affordable at around $1500-2K. The only thing better than one would be two. The compressor was pretty cool on it too. You could really get a sound going.