I look forward to the VST.

Definitely.

And more importantly - I think BigDaddy has a good point which is that you really need to try it out for yourself.

It's not an easy plugin to use - it's designed to work as a parallel effects processor, which alone requires a slightly different approach. Rather than using subtlety of effect to create the desired results, you use a dominating amount, and then tuck it in at a lighter wet/dry ratio. It makes it a bit challenging to imagine the results and then assess how to get there. Part of the fun for me has been that it challenges my way of thinking and gives me a pallet to experiment.

But I'm certainly hitting my own hitches along the road playing with the UBK-1. The first is that there seems to be a fixed threshold, which means you get the best control over the UBK-1 with a trim plugin before it. The second is that the make-up gain during the compression stage seems to be a bit gungho. Luckily there's a master out so that the level can be easily readjusted, but it does add a little step between the tweak and the desired result. Mind you, having sufficient experience working with analog equipment, this isn't particularly challenging - but having been primarily ITB for a while now it took me a second to step back into a mindset where gainstaging is so determinate of the outcome.

No need for a trim plugin, you just need to grab that Headroom control and use it for exactly that... it simultaneously adjusts the internal operating level of the plugin across all three processors, so you can lean into everything more aggressively or back everything off with a single knob.

First thing to do when you instantiate a UBK-1 is grab the Headroom knob and set it so the green Ample LED is blinking in time with the major transients, and is off as much or more than it's on. That will set the gainstaging up 'properly' for all 3 engines.

As your tweaking evolves, you may find you want a bit more or a bit less action and drive from all 3 engines, in which case you adjust the Headroom accordingly.

This plugin thinks and operates in a very analog fashion, and as with analog hardware, managing your headroom is critical!


Gregory Scott - ubk

You gotta do a video soon!

I think if you are gonna make a bold/attention grabbing statement like that, then I think an explanation is in order.

What exactly do you mean?


Operating in an analog fashion can mean so many things including smearing, softening, dulling etc amongst a thousand other things.

It would be helpful if you could clarify how this plug behaves in an analog fashion.

"In analog fashion" means like most analog gear, most coloration comes from driving the input. He just spent that whole post describing how to use the headroom (input) setting.

Ease up, homie. You're allowed to not love it but don't micro analyze every positive statement made about it. You've made your point, now lets see where this thread goes.

no I really don't understand.

analog, as I've said can mean any number of things..driving the input to saturate is a digital approach as well with most plugs these days.


But maybe that's what "analog fashion means"...I would like clarification....because sometimes "analog fashion" means smushy transients and less focussed too....which would be in line with my experience with this plug.

Correct!


Gregory Scott - ubk

hillarious!



Merchant: "Buy my fork, it works like the mythical, enchanted forks of ancient Rome"

Potential Customer: "You mean the ones made of stone that were more like spoons where you had to eat beastmeat with your hands anyway?"

Merchant: "You don't understand"

I thought so too!


Gregory Scott - ubk

...

Which part did you find hillarious Greg?


The part where you avoid the question...or the part where you make a huge all encompassing statement like "this digital plug has all the analog magic you could ever want!"? I mean I'm perfectly fine to say what I think and leave it at that, but for some reason some feel the need to pick at my opinion as if an opinion can be wrong somehow.

I'm sure your plug will be useful for a bunch of folks...just not me. Shall we leave it at that then?

Imagine if people communicated so poorly and in such a hostile fashion in person!

Uh... BigDaddy asked a simple question. Although to say "an explanation is in order" is perhaps a bit overly aggressive when a simple "can you ellaborate?" would have sufficed. Regardless, I think it's perfectly valid to ask for UBK to go into further explanation - hell it might have been enough for him to revisit the plugin.


Anywhose, I can't answer for UBK but I feel I can at least make a few statements toward it.


The plug colors the sound even when all three stages are disengaged.

The compression the staged curves are similar to mechanical compression curves, rather than plugs like stock comps, rcomp, L2, etc., which utilize digital mathematics for their functionality (both in speed and linearity).

The saturation stage rounds transients and breaks up in a way that is similar to hitting a transformer - the roundness and the buzzyness. Of course, one can say that by a definition a saturation plug is meant to sound analog.

The density control when used subtly can add a certain extra flavor which is often prescribed as "mojo" in the analog world.

The relation of each stage and how it reacts to signal level forces an "analog" way of thinking where the gain staging of each part intermingles. And I think that is the main point that UBK was getting at:

Take an LA-2A. If you crank the input knob, you not only hit the compression stage of the LA-2A harder, you also hit the input transformer harder effectively giving you more saturation. The idea of internal gain staging.



Anyway, give me about a week with it and I feel I will be able to say things with more authority. Right now I'm enjoying being able to hit the thing over the head and automate the bypass to create moments of swing.

take it easy fellah. You gotta calm down in here - every post is a little "edgy" ....so - take it easy. Gregs one of th egood guys. Deep breaths, friendliness hmmmmm yes....relaxxxx

As I said before - I'll defend you to have your own opinion but lets keep it nice

Absolutely, and for whatever it's worth, I completely respect that you do not like my plug or my hardware; if I had to guess, I would say our record collections probably look very different as well, and that we gravitate towards different shapes and colors of sound.

I would never try to persuade you (or anyone else for that matter) that your opinion is wrong, that strikes me as disrespectful. My job is not to convince non-believers such as yourself, it's to expose my work to as many people as possible so that I can reach the believers, those who need no persuading. I'm not about controlling belief, I'm about piquing curiosity.

You've done all that I could ask of anyone, which is to try the thing for yourself and report back with your honest experience. I respect that it wasn't your thing, and I appreciate your acknowledgment that others will come to the opposite conclusion.


Gregory Scott - ubk

I think you'll find that Greg in opposition to ANY other manufacturer has actually drawn a clear line between the plug and the hardware, stating in no uncertain terms that this is a PLUG and will as such NOT sonically replace hardware .......about time someone did that too, instead of just harping fairytales about how their plug is indistinguishable from the hardware it is aping and pulling some famous engineer out of the cupboard smiling and nodding his head and taking the money.

So hence you may indeed be attacking the totally wrong person, regardless whether you like the plug.

Thanks for noticing. This is from another thread where I was specifically asked how the UBK-1 compared to the UBK Fatso, and I believe it provides the explanation Big Daddy was asking me for:

___

What it is NOT:

1 - a UBK Fatso emulation

2 - a Softube or Brainworx endeavor

3 - an attempt to convince analog diehards (such as myself) that "plugins have finally arrived!" and we can sell all our overpriced toys now. My racks are staying right where they are thank you very much!


Analog is analog, it is my first love and when I need what analog does best, no plugin on earth will satisfy me. But in the quest for shapes, textures, and forms of movement that the things in my rack cannot begin to create, digital comes on strong and hard, delivers the goods, and makes no apologies.

So, the UBK -1...


What is IS:

1 - an artist-engineer-brained tool designed to do things to sound that hardware simply cannot, because hardware has 21-26dB of headroom and the plugin has well over 100dB

2 - a multi-processor whose compressor sports incredibly accurate versions of the compression curves I created for the UBK Fatso, except that where the hardware only goes to 10, the UBK-1's comp section goes to about 35. Which can be ludicrous in its effect... until you grab that parallel fader and mix in the post-sat pre-comp signal.

3 - a dsp envelope shaper that, if you so desire, is capable of completely rounding and softening the under-10-microsecond leading edge of the transient in a way that I am only accustomed to getting with tape and certain rack units, which makes for sounds that are infinitely more controllable, well behaved, and very amenable to further compression and gluing techniques.

4 - a processor that, as much as is possible given the current human-computer interface, *feels* like using analog hardware because:

:: the GUI is simple and intuitive enough for the beginner to rock out on, but that still allows for an insane degree of control if your tweakhead self so desires

:: the multiple processes (including a couple under the hood that you never touch) stack and accumulate in very interactive and pleasing ways

:: the end result of random exploration and knob twiddling can often surprise, inspire, and put a smile on your face

___


Gregory Scott - ubk

cool everyone. ive ready many many UBK posts and know that Greg is a stand up guy...and Greg, you may be surprised that I happen to agree with a lot your sonic opinions and have learned a thing or two from you.

I did try to qualify my plug critique with the fact that I always think you should try the free trial...and then you'll know yourself!

Not every plug will suit everyone's way of doing things...of course. No big deal.


PS. I did say the fatso can be killer on electric guitars driving the input BTW.

Agree with your larger points, but a small correction: LA2A has no input knob, just make-up gain after the comp stage. 1176 behaves more like what you describe

UBK-1 is pretty bada$$

Best,

J~

In case folks aren't subscribed to the thread in New Products, this is what I just posted there.

Here's a brief video overview of the concept, the thinking behind the UBK-1, I still need to attach this to the next video but what the hell, here it is on its own:

UBK-1: The Concept


And here's the Video Manual & Sound Demo, going in-depth with every control, explaining the power of the serial/parallel architecture, and finally having fun fattening up some sounds with 4 UBK-1's on instruments, chunky drums, and the 2-mix.

UBK-1: Video Manual & Sound Demo


Enjoy!


Gregory Scott - ubk

Waiting for the VST version!

VST, will be epic.

I also appreciate peoples opinion - I have not had a chance to read the entire thread - If anyone has heard the Fatso mod UBK does and has used it - HONESTLY used it - and says it doesn't sound good..well..is talking shit. I'm sorry this is not an opinion. It may be something you prefer not to use because it doesn't give you what you're looking for but MY GOD that thing is like an orgasm every time i dial in the GLUE..Spank is naughty too.

It isn't like the CV that i use a lot - It isn't aggresive..It does provide a sexy saturation and the more you drive it you can get some really amazing and spine tingling sonics.

I KNOW THAT I HAVE MY EYES ON THE BOX for christmas.

If these plugs are as close as UAD is to analogue gear - You have another buyer.

Not enough Plugs these days focus around sound. I am no engineer but i produce music and love any plug/outboard effect that has musicality. If i was to maek a rash uneducated statement - It would be go and listen for yourself in a welll treated room and comment.

Don't mean to go off the rail but the sheer audacity of a statment degregading a product like the UBK makes me want to slide down a razorblade using my nuts as breaks!

I look forward to checking this out...I WANT TO SEE MORE OUTBOARD UBK - any plans?


P.S Audio from drum buss was ran via a UBK FATSO for the upcoming remix - i should be able to play it out over the next week for those that care.

UBK - if you want to hear it i can send you via a PM.
Kid Icki

take my money




when vst is released

I haven't used the Fatso, though I heard Greg's demonstrations a bunch of times. They're not really quite the same.

One of the things I've been doing lately is really trying to embrace the idea of digital - for it's advantages and what can be done with it. You can get some absolutely crazy sounds from the UBK - super effecty stuff - by stretching out the headroom. I haven't quite gotten the 100db swing yet, but I've probably got close to the 40db swing. That's the major advantage if you are using more for creative purposes than for straight mixing purposes.

Lots of plans, have no fear.


Gregory Scott - ubk

Ya i gethered that from the demo's i have watched with the super silky JAZZ voice that is mr UBK haha! Love the swagga. Whenever i hear it i want to say lines like - Now add half a teaspoon of bass and mix it with a quart of fat back drums!..super slick!

My point was more the fact that if UBK products are to go buy well..the anaolgue is all i have to go on. They rock!

Good to hear dude. I hear from Story that he has been messing with your clariphonic EQ? ..

I know this is probably not the place but i would love to see another blend of saturation that can take it to extreme levels..I know that is probably not in the line up but man would i love that. Think of it as a culture vulture type vibe.

In fact anything that used one or two knobs so the engineering illiterate such as myself can still benefit from the product from a production aspect.

God Bless

At the risk of venturing into a discussion of things I don't truly understand, you don't have access to all that headroom (I believe 32-bit float has something closer to 1000dB of headroom). It comes into play internally, as the plug passes signal from one process to the next.

At some point it needs to be rounded back to a result that makes sense to a 24-bit d/a, and that's where the practical limitations on the theoretical 1000dB come into play.

It bears repeating: I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm just doing my best to recount discussions I've had with my programmer that frequently went over my head.


Gregory Scott - ubk

I was being facetious about have 100db of swing. It's not really possible. And I haven't measured the amount of swing, but I can get from vaguely audible to too loud - which is probably about 30-40dbFS.