Ok, I've been a Mac user all my life and never owned a PC, but last night I was at a friend's house and he showed me some beats he made with Fruity Loops.

It was so quick and easy and they sounded great, even on the crappy little home soundcard he had.

So here I am, having used Logic and Pro Tools all my life, I'm thinking to myself, if I was a rap producer, I'd be all over this program, screw everything else, it's so simple.

Why don't we have something like this on the Mac?

In any case, would be curious to hear others' thoughts on this. But I figure provided Fruity Loops does 24 bit/96K, putting an Apogee converter in front of it, having my 1073/1176 chain for vocals and then outputting the tracks to Pro Tools at some point, making a rap song would be pretty simple.

how big was the bus you took to school?

Fruity is untouchable...get your facts straight....

I've been using fruity since 95 and once PT started to support rewire, I moved my HD system to the PC. If you're a drum programmer than this combo IMO is the best there is.

ps. I'm talking about fruity's drum programming capabilities...the synths and stuff they added a few years ago sound crap...also it goes without saying that you must have a huge library of top notch single hits to enjoy it fully...the stock sounds are not that great...

The thing I loved (using Logic7/Mac now) about Fruity is the samplebrowser and the integrated sampler/stepsequencer, that's just the best, quickest and most intuitive thing I've ever seen in my life, you can immediatly catch an idea you have and bring it down - and I wish so much there would be something like this in Logic, but you can't have it all

But I also thought that recording, editing and arranging audio is PURE PAIN in FL...

FL , PT, Logic are all very different programs with different specialties.

Logic blows PT away at midi. PT blows Logic away at audio editing.
FL if used without worrying about what other people think of it tutt , is a excellent program itself.
Somehow it has gotten a bad rap but if you like being creative when you create sequences and not worrying about technical details than you might just like FL. Would I use it for tracking, heavy midi production.....hell no, but once again thats what PT and Logic are for.

Believe it or not, FL has better drum timing than the big daws, so to use it just as a drum sequencer is fine for sure. Wouldn't want to record audio in there, but to hash out ideas quick it is great. It gets knocked because of the graphics and the number of kids using it.

It's not a myth! I've been using FL forever for programming beats...it just works. The quickness which you can put together something is unmatched in other DAWs.

It's geared directly towards getting down beats quickly. The UI is designed for that... That's why I do all my beats in FL, and then bounce to do vox/mixing in SX. "Bigger" daw's are designed more for audio tracking or mixing, and their UI doesn't lend itself to just jumping in and starting a beat.

Even though it has limited audio capabilities I use them for recording my synths. Also the audio editing area is a bit weird, but once you come to grips with it you can do some major things.

People who talk shit about it just don't know how to use it or never spent the time. I've used Logic, SX, PT, and Digital Performer - out of all of em I continue to come back to FL to create my beats, SX for mixing and recording vox...FL got a bad rap because idiots talk shit about the samples included with the program...guess what, anyone good doesn't use em! They have their own sample library.

Unfortunately it's not gonna run on your mac...unless you have a new intel box with bootcamp that is

contra:
the GUI is "dark". there´s a psychological aspect that comes with it: everything that you put into it sounds worse than with other DAWs´ bright GUIs.(this is NOT a joke)

audio is not exactly PT like.......well, I can live with that. Rewire it and use PT for audio straight.

pro:
price
workflow
MIDI
sample management
automation (workflow)

I use logic on a Mac with a shit load of expensive gear and plugs, but yes, sometimes the simple cheap stuff is a million times better.

I still like redrum in Reason for programming drums with.

And this:

http://www.fxpansion.com/product-guru-main.php

no doubt, fruity is a very usefull tool. i love the drum grid and how quick you can laystuff down. the browser is super efficient. i also like the colors. people who laugh at it, have never used it. i dont know if i would record auidio in it, but for drums/midi it pretty good. funny thing, if it wasnt called fruity loops, it would get more rerspect....

I think a lot of people here nailed it exactly with Fruity Loops - the drum programmer is quick and easy to use and yes, imo it does feel tighter than the other DAW/sequencers I've used to program drums. Didn't feel the need to nudge any of the drum tracks, it just sounded and felt right (and tight). Also, amazing how you can just pretty much load up a bunch of .WAV drum hits and start programming. No messing with EXS24, no stupid sequencer and hassle of Reason, no having to load an instrument plugin. Quick and easy.

FL studio-PC

Garageband-Mac

sdf

ahhhhhh, not exactly.

IMO FL=drum sequencing...for everything else there are better apps out there...but the drum thing was good enough over a decade ago to introduce a new door stopper at my place...the MPC3000!

you're sleepin on the piano roll...tools for days. chopper, timestrech for midi notes, control values inline, etc....................

I've used them all...they are cool but...I use other apps for these functions or outboard ...(although scrathcer is dope...)

Use Ableton Live rewired with Logic! Ableton has a similar but improved file browsing configuration, which is just like Fruity Loops'.

That is why I asked if he used Live, IMO its a nice little mix of everything. They make file browsing and loops better than anything, loops can play in time when previewed, and start on the downbeat when previewing. The internal audio routing within live is also great.

Get some third party drum sequencers if you like working like that with your drums.

I am not putting down fruity loops, but, it does not have the capabilities that other more advanced DAWs do.

You get what you pay for, and for the money it's good, but for the same price I think Ableton Live would do you better...

If you take the time to learn any system you will become faster at it. In my many years of making music one of my personal goals is to improve efficiency, so as I progress, I do not see how I could possibly go back to FL and work as fast, even though I know that program inside and out.

Not even close.... FL > GB

the same price...............ahhhhh a good copy of fruity is 100$

I was talking about the full version, I forgot they have lighter versions.

Like I said I just don't see how I would go back. Now that I have mastered all of the technologies, working in FL would impede my workflow.

Just my $.02

that´s why now it´s called FL Studio (heh

funny thing, the aspect of the GUI making you THINK it sounds worse than other DAWs is another aspect.
blind testing will reveal it..........or putting in a visualization plug and listening to it while on/off.

You might want to try Fxpansion's GURU

Brian, before you read on - please don´t take any of this personal. thumbsup

I´ve been trying to make people switch to Live on this forum for quite a long time.

While Live has a unique workflow, it (until now) lacks some essential MIDI tools.

To dismiss FL because of it´s MIDI features is........bullshit.
I can´t think of a thing that´s impossible on the MIDI side.......in fact, I can´t think of any other DAW besides maybe Logic and Energy XT, which let´s you work as fast and detailed (on the MIDI side) as FL. No, I will take that back.

There is NO DAW or hardware "DAW" with similar features that will let you work as fast as FL.

My only efficiency goal was to be able to produce LIVE.
I am able to by combining Live with FL.

The (internal) MIDI timing is ABSOLUTLY tight.
In fact, with a little help of my beat detector/envelope follower plug, my voice is the MPC.
And it doesn´t get tighter/more "human" than that.

The first time I heard your music, I thought it was done with FL (I didn´t care to read your sig line).
Now due to it´s reputation, you will think "What? He said my beats sound like Fruity Loops?". Ain´t that unfair?

Fruity Loops doesn´t have a "sound". The plugs have.
But I don´t use many of them. The DrumSynth is awesome.........and that´s the only plug I use in FL on a regular basis.

You have to understand: there are people out there, who have to work really fast. on the fly. on the spot. If you are a good freestyle MC and you can spit for an hour without a break, you will get an album from me......after an hour.
L-I-V-E is the key. And (I mean it) I suck in that department compared to people I know.

Let´s use our VocAlign conversation in the other thread. It´s great, but you said, doing it my way is less efficient........well, you are right. But only if you have the time to record a guiding track (which has to be pretty much perfect too). So while I scan the track, you recorded your first "guide track".............by the time you record your second to try another timing, I have already tried out dozens of different grooves.

halfguard (was it him?) asked about "audio engines" a couple of times.

I don´t think that´s important at all.
Do you. Create your own sound. Learn how to do music LIVE.

The moment you will reach a certain level of improvisation skills, you will automaticly look for an additional set of ears.

Timbaland beats without Mr.Douglass sound like.....great ideas without "the sound".
I was once shut down, when a (famous) "mixing console artist" stepped by my studio and we had a discussion about hardware vs. skills.

He used the internal plugs of Logic 4.8 (yeah, it´s some years ago) and I had my (great) "hardware mix". My jaw dropped so hard on the floor man.....
I will never ever start another hardware/software vs. skills discussion in my entire life. heh
If he reads this.......I hate you LOL heh

As far as "getting what you pay for", I disagree.

Fuzzpilz, who is a Buzz "icon", created Oatmeal.
I think it´s by far the best softsynth (and I know a couple of them) that I have ever touched. It´s $free-99.

You have Energy XT on the sequencer side. It´s $50 and I don´t know of a sequencer, that has such a knowledgable and friendly userbase. Needless to say, some of the craziest MIDI plug ins have been created for it by it´s users.......some of them you always wished for and probably will never find in a "expensive" and "established" DAW. Used in Live as a VST, it gives you MIDI control you could never dream of.

Anyway, all I can offer is an additional pair of ears and eyes and a couple of ideas........plus my humble opinion.

@Kestral
you use Windows? heh that´s a big surprise. lol
did you finaly get your XV (hopefully with RAM and a SCSI drive?)

FL Studio has been great for me for drums and midi. I can't say much for the recording aspect, but at least I can export the drums/midi files to wave files for import into the DAW. (Keeping everything in the digital realm with no degradation of sound.) For recording, I need advanced features like multiple takes, better UI, stuff that FL studio seems to lack.

One feature of FL Studio I find *absolutely amazing* is the ability to have it, on a per beat basis, randomly choose a sample out of a set of drum samples for each drum piece. These makes the drums sound much more realistic.. like night and day. If you use the the very same sample for each beat, it sounds very unnaturual and mechanical.

Following are two wave files, 30 seconds each, of the same drum pattern and samples (created in FL Studio and exported from FL Studio -- all digital realm). The first wave only uses one sample for snare, kick, etc.. the other wave file uses multiple samples for snare, kick, etc. Like 3 different snares, 4 different kicks, 10 different hat samples.

http://home.comcast.net/~chipwits/dr...le_samples.wav
http://home.comcast.net/~chipwits/dr...le_samples.wav

I also really love the soundfont support for midi. You can use any number of soundfont files and it keeps everything in the digital realm. It does this natively without using buggy third party plugins; reliable with no latency issues.

So I create all the drum and midi stuff first and export the wave files. They are in perfect time with the DAW program I use such as Sonar, and N-Track. If I make a 200bpm rhythm section in FL STudio, export the wave files, import into N-Track.. setting N-Track at 200bpm, the beats line up perfectly. Same for sonar.

Get a very nice set of drum samples (multiple samples per piece) and some good soundfont samples, and it sounds wonderful.

Heck, sometimes I even take stuff I've recorded in N-Track and import it into FL Studio for final mixing; (requires me lining up the recorded wave files, but that isn't much of a problem.) I really like the intuitive interface, the aux sends etc. If FL Studio gets updated later on, having better and more intuitive recording capabilities, I might just use it for everything.

Looks like FL Studio 6 has improved the mixer somewhat; e.g. adding ability to mute a track =P. Guess I need to upgrade from FL Studio 5.

James

That's because a lot of that music was made with fruity loops! (It's old...) heh

Like I said, I used fruity loops for a long time and its a great program, but I've moved on because other things work better for me.

Live + FL is probably an incredible combination, and I'm sure that works great, can you use the plug-ins in live with that?

With the vocalign... I was talking about using it to line up doubles, maybe you misunderstood me....

Ding! Ding! Let me chime in...

I love FL. When I compose midi or sample based tracks I do it all in FL, running as a VSTI inside of SX. No tracks to transfer etc.

I record vocals or other acoustic instruments in SX with FL running in the background. I process FL tracks in SX with Waves and other plugins. I do use some of the FL plugs like the parametric eq which 'aint bad at all.

So when laying vox I'll have multiple stereo tracks coming out of FL Studio into the SX mixer. It sounds great.

Here's a song where all of the music was done with FL running as a VSTI in SX... still to this day I've never rendered the FL tracks as audio. Every sample and synth is playing and being triggered from FL.

http://theaudiocave.com/mp3s/Look_At_Me.mp3

Lawrence

Sounds good! Is that the plucked synth that drops in?

I'm don't remember exactly what patch that was but it was a FL synth. There's some good stuff in there.

Actually, there is one sound that didn't come from FL... the worm that drops in like twice in the whole song. That came from a Proteus 2000. Forgot about that.

All the other synths are FL.

Lawrence

A friend that I often work with remotely is massively into FL and PT on his PC. FL drives me up a wall. I tried it back in the day, and it's just not my thing. He floors me with the stuff he is able to do in it, but it's not my workflow and all. I love Logic.

I have a friend I work with who currently has a beat on the singles charts by a major R&B singer. He only uses FL and a MIDI controller and he is pulling in 6 figures from a publishing advance.

yeah i have to say.. stock fl sucks balls.
if you have a decent soundbank/decent plugins

fruity EASILY beats all the other programs.
i dont know anyone that hates fruity who actualy took the time to set it up properly...

another givent... anything lower than fl5 sucks balls as well.

the only thing i hate is its designed so you cannot create your own feedback loop.. you cant send a send to a send.... which totaly sucks.
but im not here to be a hater. i suport fl. and the only people that hate it are the ones that are afraid to think outside of there tight box lol

i use fruity. and i can tell you.. i know of at least one released sarah mclachlan track that was done with fruityloops