Pulsar Modular and Marc Daniel Nelson Introduce the P821 MDN TAPE Plugin
by p900   3 weeks ago

Thats nice to hear people are notcing this. Z and I spent a lot of time trying to get that to work. One thing about tape outside all the over color and such is the ability to pull things forward without it sounding like expansion or something like that. I think of it like taking a magnet and bringing it over some particles for them to pop up a bit.

I posted an earlier version of this awhile back on the Sidecar thread, here's a remix with P821 on tracks/busses and also the 2Bus.

I haven't used the plugin as yet, although I've watched a couple of demo videos.

It imparts a nice sheen and adds space around instruments, no doubt. I'll be buying it as soon as the Aussie dollar starts improving against the greenback.

One thing I noticed in the demos is that the plugin appears to be scooping some low mid energy - I perceived this as a lack of heft on some sources.

If this is the case, could it explain the "unmasking" of previously unheard mix elements?

Of course, this could simply be related to the settings in use on these demos, so I'm just speculating here.

It feels p821 is like the lighting effects used for a show on a stage: it highlights what the spectator is supposed to be looking at, and at the same time, all the light movements together give the whole scene an artistic movement, depth, and signature.

This thing is definitely different, and in artistry, different is welcome.

Btw, to all who argue that they haven't heard the real thing: have you heard about The Wall? Aja? Rumours? If you didn't, I urge you to take that deep listening bath; and you'll get a sense then on how the real thing sounds and feels.

For those who have it, how do you feel this compares to Phoenix II?

I've actually been using both together. Phoenix first and then P821. Been using it that way on vocals and whatever else I feel.

As a Perth resident I hear what you’re saying. The Aussie $ is not good right now, which is very unfortunate.

I still do it this way. Old habits can be hard to break.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

Cool vibes, great sound, space, separation. The tracks melt together like warm butter and hot chocolate.

To my ears it goes beyond the simple unmasking you can have with an eq. I would guess the eq curve you can measure tells you just a fraction of what is happening, and is more a consequence than a cause.

The truth is, technically it can be anything. It just sounds damn good in every detail.

Presumably not just dynamic EQ, but frequency dependent saturation, plus the separate bias controls for highs and lows, plus programme dependent ratios for the dynamic EQ, plus whatever else is going on...

Hello Marc, hello everyone,
I have limited experience with tape recorders. I have a Studer B67 at the studio, which I no longer use for maintenance (and therefore money) reasons. When I used it, its sound print wasn't always adequate, but when it worked, and then it was magic, it brought everything into relief. The image that came to me was visual, and came from comics. The so-called "clear line" school (Hergé, Edgar P. Jacobs, etc.) has the characteristic of underlining all contours with a black line (yes, it's counter-intuitive given the name), giving relief and sharpness to everything drawn. Well, the B67, when the sound was right and the breath (hiss) wasn't too problematic, systematically gave this result, a 3D feel. Tube equipment gives a halo around the sound, so another 3D effect, but very different, and tape recorders (at least the B67), a relief and contour giving sharpness and depth of field, as well as character.
I haven't yet bought the P821 for silly but imperative reasons of money, but as soon as I can I'll rush out and buy it (I'm already an enthusiast of the P42 and your 1st joint creature, the fantastic and systematically used P455).
Thanks for everything, you make ITB work not a second choice, but a 1st!

Brilliant descriptions!

Guys, please check the following image.
Would you be able to distinguish these colors?

Magenta is used for Red
Emerald Green for classic Green
Amber for the Orange

I've tested it on the color blindness simulator, and it now seems easy to distinguish various modes, but I would like to hear your feedback to make sure.

If all went well, @ p900 will add a corresponding option to the P821.

Awesome, I have a severe defective sight for red, in particular when red has a green or dark background. I can recognize the new colors perfectly; and they look great.

Yes, I really put this one through its paces, because of the price. In the end, I had to buy it. I spun it against all flavors of Acustica/UAD/Cranesong/Taipei/Machine Head, etc. It's different, unique and very, very good. Tried hard to get something coherent out of that blue staging focus switch, but in the end decided it's just a distraction. It should default to "off". The shelving and bias adjustments are very handy. Personally, I don't find any use for the modulation section, tape delay or tape hiss.

So, what I'm left with are just expensive tape sounds...but what sounds! They merge with the music. They occlude nothing.

I don't think it's too much of an overstatement to say that -more than any other tape plugin I have- P821 services the song, rather than the other way around.

Let's do a tape plugin called Relief relief
That's also the word that always springs in my mind as one of the principal tape magic ingredients.
In U-he Satin, as impressive as it is, i often felt as it's nearly a woodcut relief, aka on the heavy-handed side, like a double dose of A77, and when comparing now with 821 i really appreciate the subtleties which are all the more enjoyable once you found a sweet spot.
The words relaxed and effortless have been mentioned a few times and i think that's also a big bonus here; the kind of lively fluidity we could hear since P42 and that (to me) is another crucial part of the magic formula...

It is definitely an improvement! Thank you, brother!

Can we please have a lite version of the plugin? No tape hiss, no delay? Cos I also just want the tape sound, no modulation or hiss or flutter or fx.

Great idea, if it comes out more DSP efficient. No delay and no hiss for sure. Keep modulation and bias or eq. Perhaps loose the stereo width thingy as well. Hell, I can even live without the modulation. :D

Yes, we obviously live on the same sound planet

The P821, from what I've heard so far, is the best magneto effect I've heard (I've never had Phoenix II, but I work quite a bit with UA's ATR 102, which is good but too heavy-handed in terms of sonic footprint and compression, and sometimes Flywheel or Airwindows' ToTape), PM's version being both more subtle and more effective (yes, it's apparently contradictory), and more original (it brings characteristics that the others don't have, as you pointed out: fluidity, cohesion, perfect relief, sound plane work that instantly improves the mix, etc.).

Thanks to the work of our friends at PM (and others of course, but there are very few of this level), the advantages of analog are becoming more and more accessible with simple and affordable plugins, with all the advantages of digital (yes we've been seeing this phrase for 15 years, but we're finally starting to get out of the Method Coué - self-persuasion).
The last thing I'd miss is a software version of the vinyl pressing stage + vinyl playback in the best possible conditions! This may seem strange, since these two stages are riddled with constraints and defects, which we're happy to do without (euphemism). But after listening systematically for a year to the comparison between digitized versions of the original tapes (our official versions of classics from before 1984/1985), remastered or not, and the digital transfer, well done according to the rules of the art (it's difficult) of the same albums, blind, my subjective listening recognizes and favors the vinyl transfer.
That's not the problem with digital, because both are digital! It's what these two stages (pressing and playback) bring. To my ears, they bring two precious things (apart from their classic shortcomings): on the one hand, a certain sense of musical continuity, the sensation that nothing separates successive sounds temporally (it's obviously an illusion, but it's effective), and on the other hand, less tiring listening over time. As for the last aspect, undoubtedly the most obvious, it's undoubtedly linked to a more obvious one, that of not being able to compress ridiculously excessively, without creating crippling problems at the pressing stage. But also, in a more subtle way, to the treatment of high frequencies which, when they are well treated in the preceding stages, makes them particularly pleasant to listen to. But it's the 1st aspect that is the most original. Not even the tape recorder is capable of generating this sensation. No idea why, but the result is constant and reproducible (always the same, to my ears at least). Waves made an attempt, but it wasn't very convincing, TDR more recently, but I haven't had a chance to try it out yet, and I don't think they had these objectives in mind, it's mainly a simulation to anticipate the feasibility of pressing if I'm not being silly. Well, that's another subject anyway.

I've always felt that great analog circuits serve as a filtering effect for our brains, giving us what we want (emotional connection) by removing what we don't (emotional distraction).

I can only imagine how the historic development of the four t's (tubes, transistors, transformers and tape) aligned with human emotional perception thru tone, but there was certainly a lot of intense listening going on and I'm sure many designs were discarded in favor of the ones we love 50+ years later.

I think when digitally modeling old analog it is important to keep the ears active just like the old timers did - at least the ones who's devices we still praise. Going for a strict model could backfire by locking you into a cerebral approach where the measurement scope is more important than goosebumps on the skin (my only scope).

I support developers reframing what they hear in these old circuits into todays full spectrum world, where lows, mids and highs are served meticulously to our ears in ways they were not during the original development. AirPods mainlining audio to the central nervous system?

So I think there should be a modern translation effort that preserves what we loved in the past, while staying true to what is heard (and felt) today. Pulling that off requires an unusual balance of intelligence, intuition and ears, something that IMO 95% of devs do not have, so they are forced to rely on a barrage of releases hoping to get lucky.

I used to own the actual Stephens 821-24 track that was used to create the P821 MDN Tape plugin and agree it was the best sounding tape deck ever made. I recently demoed the P821 MDN Tape and I plan to use it on everything from now on. I own numerous tape emulation plugins, this is the best one I have ever heard.
Mark Linett

That means there were multiple machines being used..

Haven't used the tapes from algo plugins for a long time. Usually use it from nebula or neural (nam, genesis)
But a friend told the story of this tape and advised me to try it. And that really got to me)

Here are some mixes i did recently using some neural processing and P821 on 2bus.

Default settings, 900 tape, 30IPS and various gainstage

The P821 immediately puts a smile on my face

lol these are the most Suno sounding tracks i've ever seen posted here

Yes, part in suno, part in udio. However, it does not matter when it comes to post-processing, considering how the originals sound there. And it also does not make the P821 sound worse.

Are others folks getting this extreme boost?

That used to be the go-to behavior for plugs in default mode so that inexperienced demo-ers would go “whoa, listen to how much better it sounds just engaging it!”

Hopefully not the case here.