Ah interesting. Waiting impatiently for zen 5. The guy states zen 6 in 2025 is the one to wait for tho...uff. Hopefully it's on the upgrade path from zen 5.

Air coolers have limited surface area for heat exchange and
500W they will also need very cold air even with 3000RPM fans.
Phanteks T30-120 here and I like it up to +- 1500RPM.
I don't like any fan above 1500 RPM.



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Here we see a +-10W difference in idle. (Click in the image for the video)


AMD X3D is your friend.




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I would get the 14700K because it may have security fixes and better memory controller.



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Good point!

...

Oh that is VERY compelling data.

Quick question, how does the 7950x3d compare to the 7950x? Same temps?
Similar performance for audio?
The X3D is $80+ more expensive here in Australia, and i don't game at all so not sure if i need the extra "3D" part for audio?

One more question if you don't mind. How is the integrated graphics on the AMD cards as far as stability?
I've been using the iGPU in my i7-8700 for 4 years with no problems, so i have some trust with Intel in that regard. Would AMD iGPU be equally as reliable?

All that peripheral chip powerdown wizzwass only has a minor effect in the first place. You shouldn't get much of a disadvantage from what you are doing unless you touch the CPU. If you want to know you have to buy a power meter (pays for itself quickly).

What really matters for idle power is that you get your CPU cores into a high C-state.

Real time audio by definition is a tragedy of peaks and lulls! My max c-states are C0 coz turn all that crap off!

http://www.scanproaudio.info/2023/03/03/4841/

That's one way to do it. But casual users should buy a powermeter before doing this. It has a real impact on idle power.

And modern CPUs transition very fast, at least out of C1-C3. It might not be necessary anymore. Only one way to find out of course.

Well here's another video that has similar test results to the other video i posted:



Don't think there should be any doubt now that Intels draw much less power at idle.

The question becomes how relevant that actually is to real-world usage. How often is my computer idle? Probably not that often

I wait for Intel 15 gen. No one should be surprised that 14 gen has very limited gain compared to 13 gen. I always knew that this release would be very similar to the 10 gen VS 11 gen. release.
Lets see what AMD fanboys says when 15 gen. comes out. Then they cannot use the heat/power consumption argument in real-world usage anymore. That release gonna take a huge step forward and shock "everybody".

Thanks, when I build my next studio PC I will experiment to see how things have improved.

I don't use any windows application so I should be fine I suppose

Interesting, I wonder what the point of diminishing returns is, where your fan is louder/faster but not making things any cooler. It would be an interesting test to see.

The t30 seems like a monster fan. My buddy was deciding between that and the megacool.

https://www.thefpsreview.com/2023/10...-cpu-review/9/
https://tinyurl.com/4aknenhb
I do not see any complains.
When installing the iGPU driver we can install the driver only and not the bloatware.

Thanks again Pictus.

In other news... Hmmmm, i've just realised that my audio interface is Thunderbolt2, and these AM5 boards are Thunderbolt4. I think I remember hearing on a DAWbench podcast that TB4 isn't backwards compatible to TB2, it's only backwards compatible to TB3. I think that means i wont be able to natively use my interface via any AM5 motherboard with TB4, right?

It's not so bad, the interface can be connected via USB too (which is how i've been using it so far), so it's not like i wont be able to use the interface at all. But damn, i was looking forward to the performance boost that finally being able to use Thunderbolt might bring as far as latency and stuff.

Are there people here successfully using TB2 devices through AM5 motherboards? Is that even possible? If so, what's the deal, do you have to get an adapter or something?

Or maybe it's worth just letting go of the Thunderbolt idea and buying a cheaper motherboard instead. I've never used Thunderbolt before, but my projects have always reached limitations/dropouts/crackle and i'm not sure how much of it is due to my older i7-8700 or due to the lack of Thunderbolt...

(My interface is an Antelope Discrete 4 Synergy Core by the way (legacy version, not the new Pro version))

here:

TB(Thunderbolt) 4 does not talk well with TB2.
Modern Intel/AMD/Apple are ALL TB4.
I can't answer any questions or help with this, but
Compatibility Summary: Thunderbolt 1/2 to Thunderbolt 3/4&USB4

If you plan to buy a new audio interface, look
Audio Interface - Low Latency Performance Data Base

I would love someone (scanproaudio?) to test the new 14th gen with both DDR4 and DDR5. I wonder if the memory controller improvements would help DDR4 performance?

The difference between 4 and 5 for virtual instrument counts was very large and unexpected, almost suggesting a bug.

I am 90% certain to upgrade my 12700K to the 14700K.

Yeah, i've seen that post already, but it doesn't say whether he's using a TB2 device like me or TB3 device

Ah, yes. Shoot him a PM maybe?

I've run my MOTU 16A with a TB 2-3 Apple adapter on my x570 ProArt's USB4/TB4 and it worked. This was with the device connected and powered on during boot which is the way it has to be anyway when operating that interface (also with USB). I obviously can't speak for the latest generation.

I have posted some works arounds. Either find a thunderbolt 4 motherboard you can downgrade to the thunderbolt firmware to NVM31 or lower. Asus Z690 ProArt Creator WiFi can be downgraded to firmware NVM 31 with bios 9901 (a specials made bios for Hackintosh community). This support maximum 13900K I think.

I also posted a question about the Gigabyte Z790 AERO G and if you can use one of those thunderbolt headers for a thunderbolt 3 add on card. From what I understand the headers are the same but I don't know if the thunderbolt 3 works as intended. If it does thunderbolt 3 should work with thunderbolt 2

That's promising.
Hopefully it would be the same for the AM5 boards.
RyanC is using a AM4 board too, so don't know how relevant his experience is to my setup either, given i'll be AM5 (assuming i choose AMD over Intel)

That's some great progress, but i'm most likely gonna go in the direction AMD 7950x3D (cos of the thermals:performance ratio).
Let me know if you see any workarounds for the AMD side of things

Not something I would do but maybe you can also use headers on modern AMD motherboard for thunderbolt 3 add on cards. I don't know. I'm pretty sure the same rule for the thunderbolt NVM firmware also count on AMD. The reason why some can use thunderbolt 2 on x570 ProArt's USB4/TB4 is that the bios is old and still has old NVM(31) thunderbolt firmware.

DDR5 is new and we will see improvements in the
controllers and memory chips, but DDR4 is finished.
It's not a bug, it's new improved technology.
https://www.igorslab.de/en/ddr5-deep...-the-practice/

You should double check with Ryan because he wrote 7950X which is AM5 and before that he wrote x570e. The x5-series is AM4, but I don't think there is an ASUS ProArt x570e, so I'm guessing it was supposed to be x670e. I think I recall him saying he upgraded, but I could be wrong about that, so check.

New Threadripper

So this time around the non-Pro will also use registered RAM. Very good.

Good point!

I'll summon him in this thread first because other ppl reading in future might benefit from the info. If he doesn't reply I'll PM.
Hey @ RyanC , is your motherboard AM4 or AM5? Was x570e a typo?

And have you got a TB1/TB2 device working? Or TB3/TB4 only?

I have both, or kinda all 3- AM4 with TB3 (giga) AM4 with TB4 (Asus) and AM5 with USB4 (which is TB4+USB on Asus ProArt x670e).

Your interface is a RME Fireface?

I don't have one to test, so I have no way to know specifically, but I'm almost positive that the USB4 in a general sense works with TB2 stuff using the apple adaptor, but I'll check tomorrow or saturday.

The startech adaptor doesn't work with TB4. I have one though, I'll plug it in too and see- IME the apple TB3 works for sure with TB4 on the Asus AM4 board (in use every day at the studio)...

If TB2 works on the x670e board, I would be surprised if RME TB2 didn't. People were (probably still are) using FW400 interfaces with both the TB3->2, TB2->FW800, FW800->FW400...