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Old 4th March 2016 | Show parent
  #181
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🎧 5 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAW PLUS ➑️
Goddard, welcome back! Where have you been hanging out?
Very OT, sorry...I thought the aliens abducted him to pick his brain.
Hiya Leon! Just saw your post. Thanks for the welcome back.

Nope, aliens didn't get me (not yet! ). Was just afk, paying the bills, writing the tunes. I hang out over in the SOS forums mostly, where Vin has parallel running LLP and Dawbench threads in their PC Music forum (seems he has closed his own forum).

Nice to be back. Hope you're doing well!
Old 4th March 2016
  #182
XI-MACHINES
 
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🎧 10 years
Nice! All fine here...
Old 21st April 2017
  #183
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🎧 15 years
Blowing the cobwebs off this thread again.

In the process of sorting a refresh of the DAWbench Suite for 2017.

DAWbench DSP : I am currently researching and have narrowed down a new VST/AU Cross Platform Freeware Plugin that should be suitable and will be an addition to the ReaFX XComp default plugin on Windows .

This will allow easier cross platform testing instead of using the commercial plugin demos that are used currently , which are not convenient for most.

Still looking for something that also includes AAX, but to be honest Protools might be dropped from the suite from lack of interest.

DAWbench VI : This one will take a little more work - currently using a sample library from Kontakt 3 , which really isn't practical for anyone who doesn't have the previous sample sets , and due to licensing I cannot supply the required samples.

I am looking at using Free Sample libraries that will work with the Free Kontakt Player , which will allow using the benchmarks even for those that do not have the full Kontakt. Orchestral Libraries were the challenge, but I have narrowed down a few options that are using open source samples that I can freely use in Kontakt Player ( some Free libraries still required Full Kontakt ) and make the links available , as well as using some elements from the Free Kontakt library available with the player.

I'll pop up some further details as I progress further.


Last edited by TAFKAT; 21st April 2017 at 12:37 AM..
Old 21st April 2017
  #184
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Old 7th July 2017
  #185
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🎧 15 years
DAWbench Suite 2017 :

I have streamlined the suite for this year to only include Cubase and Reaper , as there didn't seem to be much interest on the other DAW platforms. I may navigate the new sessions across to other DAW's if there is a demand.

DAWbench DSP 2017 : I have included a new Freeware plugin from Shattered Glass Audio , the LGA1156 , which is best described as a Vintage Tube PreAmp. This has double the resources even at its default low CPU setting than the RXC-EXT, so it will serve us well for the newer/faster multicore CPU's that are being released. I have 96K version in the works which I will sign off on shortly.

I have discontinued any of the 3rd party Plugins to simplify the testing for all.

DAWbench VI 2017 : Session has now been extended to 3200 notes of polyphony , which is double the original session which served us so well for about 4-5 years. Sign of the times. The current 10 core CPU's are already challenging this session, so the next step will be 96K versions when I get some clear air to sign off.

You can download the new benchmarks Here

Last edited by TAFKAT; 7th July 2017 at 12:53 AM..
Old 22nd August 2019
  #186
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🎧 15 years
Time to blow the cobwebs off this thread again.

DAWbench Suite 2019 : Some new DAWbench session in the works as a response to the continuing increases in CPU core numbers and scaling, which have left the last suite of sessions lacking.


DAWbench DSP 2019 :

RXC-UXT : This is an even further extended version of the RXC-EXT ( 16 Bands ) , which will now have 32 Bands , doubling the resource load over the EXT version.

LGA1156-EXT : This is a higher resource version of the original LGA1156 session.

DAWbench VI 2019 :

DAWbench VI - SMP : Original Kontakt Sampler version of the test with any extended polyphony count of 6400 Notes , double that of the last session.

DAWbench VI - SYN : New VI test session using virtual synths. This is still in early development. It will feature a selection of instruments including the popular u-he Diva, RePro, Zebra.


For those that have followed the DAWbench Project over the years, and are interested in having a listen to a podcast, you can catch myself, Leon Herbers from XI Machines and Pete Kain from Scan Pro Audio chatting on the first DAWbench Radio Show Here

We cover the early history of the project, the past and present curves of navigating the area of DAW multiprocessor support and optimization , dip our toes into the pro's and con's of hybrid playback engines, and more.

Episode 2 and 3 are already recorded and in production , where I have some additional special guests on each respective show, one being a leading cross platform DAW developer , the other the co-founder of a leading and highly respected audio interface company.

I'll pop some further details re the new suite , shows, as I progress further.

Old 28th September 2019 | Show parent
  #187
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT ➑️
Time to blow the cobwebs off this thread again.

DAWbench Suite 2019 : Some new DAWbench session in the works as a response to the continuing increases in CPU core numbers and scaling, which have left the last suite of sessions lacking.


DAWbench DSP 2019 :

RXC-UXT : This is an even further extended version of the RXC-EXT ( 16 Bands ) , which will now have 32 Bands , doubling the resource load over the EXT version.

LGA1156-EXT : This is a higher resource version of the original LGA1156 session.

DAWbench VI 2019 :

DAWbench VI - SMP : Original Kontakt Sampler version of the test with any extended polyphony count of 6400 Notes , double that of the last session.

DAWbench VI - SYN : New VI test session using virtual synths. This is still in early development. It will feature a selection of instruments including the popular u-he Diva, RePro, Zebra.


For those that have followed the DAWbench Project over the years, and are interested in having a listen to a podcast, you can catch myself, Leon Herbers from XI Machines and Pete Kain from Scan Pro Audio chatting on the first DAWbench Radio Show Here

We cover the early history of the project, the past and present curves of navigating the area of DAW multiprocessor support and optimization , dip our toes into the pro's and con's of hybrid playback engines, and more.

Episode 2 and 3 are already recorded and in production , where I have some additional special guests on each respective show, one being a leading cross platform DAW developer , the other the co-founder of a leading and highly respected audio interface company.

I'll pop some further details re the new suite , shows, as I progress further.

Vin, any idea on when the next editions of your podcasts are likely to emerge for us to watch ?
Old 28th September 2019 | Show parent
  #188
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➑️
Vin, any idea on when the next editions of your podcasts are likely to emerge for us to watch ?
Hey S,

I have been fighting some time constraints of late and have not managed to get the other 2 shows finalised. Show 2 is almost completed , but I will be travelling abroad for the next month which has pushed back the final sign off and broadcasting unfortunately.

Episode 2 is now scheduled for release end of October/start of November , Episode 3 will follow shortly after around mid November.

I can give you some details that I shared on the FB page.

Quote:
I have 2 new Radio Shows recorded and currently in the editing and production stage .

I am joined on both by some cool co-hosts and special guests that I am sure many will enjoy listening to.

Episode 02 : DAW Evolution : Reaper - Past , Present , Future !

Special Guest : Justin Frankel

Run Time : 110 Minutes

DRS-03 – Audio Interface Low Latency Performance : RME – Setting the Bar !

Special Guest : Matthias Carstens.

Run Time : 90 Minutes.
Apologies for the delay, but they will be worth the wait. I had a great time chatting to all involved, and there is a heap of valuable insight and information being shared.

Stay tuned.
Old 28th September 2019
  #189
Lives for gear
 
🎧 10 years
Vin that's super interesting what you're preparing to your show.
To be completely honest.. I'm terrible with listening to long conversations, my attention usually stops after 20 minutes, unless I'm doing something with that audio (that's just alternative listening mode )
But I'm very curious about both mentioned guests. It's great, you've managed to make interview with them.
Matthias is very sympathetic, smart guy, I've met him years ago at Musikmesse in Frankfurt. It was right after release of MADIFace XT, we had short talk about USB 3 interfaces. I was using some RME stuff for years before that and was never in contact with anyone from the company. Then first visit of their stand and I ran right into MC He was great, direct and interesting answers (even to complete stranger), humble, down to earth approach, no BS and free of pompous marketing claims.

Looking forward to that

Michal
Old 29th September 2019 | Show parent
  #190
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr ➑️
Vin that's super interesting what you're preparing to your show.

To be completely honest.. I'm terrible with listening to long conversations, my attention usually stops after 20 minutes, unless I'm doing something with that audio (that's just alternative listening mode )
Hey Michal,

I understand, long form interview/podcast shows are not for everyone, especially in this world of quick soundbites, but you don't have to listen to the show in one sitting :-)

I was tossing up splitting the 2nd episode into 2 parts, but on doing the final editing I decided instead to keep it in one long form show.

Both Justin and Matthias were very easy going and great to talk to, the shows are very relaxed with enough tech nerdiness to cover the subjects at hand, but also fun to keep it interesting.

I'm looking forward to getting them out when I am back at the desk.

Old 29th September 2019 | Show parent
  #191
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT ➑️
I understand, long form interview/podcast shows are not for everyone, especially in this world of quick soundbites, but you don't have to listen to the show in one sitting :-)
I've meant that in sense, I'm looking forward to both interviews despite the length (which otherwise discourage me).
And yes, when I listen to longform podcasts, its in few parts.. typically from phones during some walk or travel.

Quote:
I was tossing up splitting the 2nd episode into 2 parts, but on doing the final editing I decided instead to keep it in one long form show.
I see, when someone has periodic, scheduled show with somewhat fixed format and make several episodes from one long interview.
But otherwise, it seem to me, it's better to have one long piece.
I've heard first DAWBench episode from some web player, but later I found, it's also on Spotify, so the it would be much more comfortable to listen with their podcast player.

And of course, thank you for efforts and work on the show!

Michal
Old 29th September 2019 | Show parent
  #192
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🎧 10 years
With the calibre of people that Vin has engaged for his DAWBench chats, I don't advocate any shortening or editorializing of their spoken content, for the sake of brevity.

By all means break them up into shorter segments for the attention-span-challenged amongst us....but don't edit out vital content, just for the purpose of making it shorter, lighter, snappier

These key players in the industry don't often give interviews or chats...and I want to hear everything they have to say !

If English is your second language, or you are easily bored...you can always watch it in multiple/sequential 5 minute segments, until you have absorbed it all.

Looking forward to the next (and future) episodes in the series.
Old 29th September 2019 | Show parent
  #193
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by msmucr ➑️
I've heard first DAWBench episode from some web player, but later I found, it's also on Spotify, so the it would be much more comfortable to listen with their podcast player. l
Yes the show is also on Spotify , and will also be pushed out to iTunes.

I am being mindful of Netiquette here, as I don't want to push boundries regards direct promotion. I will do my best to get the information to all reading in without being too shouty :-)

Old 29th September 2019 | Show parent
  #194
Gear Guru
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT ➑️
I am being mindful of Netiquette here, as I don't want to push boundries regards direct promotion. I will do my best to get the information to all reading in without being too shouty :-)

I honestly don't think anyone will mind if you post a link to it, or even start a thread about it. I haven't heard it, but if it's informative it's for all our benefit.

As far as I'm concerned I'd appreciate it if you posted the Spotify url...
Old 30th September 2019 | Show parent
  #195
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattiasnyc ➑️
I honestly don't think anyone will mind if you post a link to it, or even start a thread about it. I haven't heard it, but if it's informative it's for all our benefit.

As far as I'm concerned I'd appreciate it if you posted the Spotify url...
I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet but you can find it here: https://dawbench.libsyn.com/

Alistair
Old 1st October 2019 | Show parent
  #196
XI-MACHINES
 
DAW PLUS's Avatar
 
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT ➑️
Yes the show is also on Spotify , and will also be pushed out to iTunes.
Vin posted the Spotify link 2 posts above.
Old 1st October 2019
  #197
Gear Guru
 
🎧 10 years
Doh!

For some reason I didn't realize it was a link... thx...
Old 3rd November 2019
  #198
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🎧 15 years
Quick heads up.

I have finally uploaded Episode 02 which features Justin Frankel.

This show was recorded in August , but with life getting in the way and me travelling for most of October, it took longer than I had hoped to get close to 2 hrs of raw material edited and produced, but I am happy to be able to finally get this to air.

Buckle up, strap on the propeller cap , enjoy.

DAWbench Radio Show :

Episode 02 : DAW Evolution : Reaper - Past , Present , Future !

Special Guest : Justin Frankel

Run Time : 110 Minutes

DAWbench Radio Show : Here

Spotify : Here

Old 6th November 2019
  #199
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🎧 15 years
Hey All,

As a follow up to one of the topics being discussed on Ep 02 of the Radio Show , specifically regards hybrid audio engine performance and my concern at the time that Cubase 10 had thrown a few additional curves into the mix with ASIOGuard/MMCSS , I did some some additional testing after the show had been recorded which explains some of the oddities we were navigating , but hadn't connected the dots as yet.

My initial concerns were surrounding some very weird and confusing benchmark testing results that Pete from Scan had been experiencing when testing the last round with Cubase 10. That initial report has been pulled as we further investigated some of the performance variables, I'll let Pete detail that further if he feels warranted , but I can offer up my testing and observations.

There are 2 areas being navigated, one being the MMCSS issue with anything above 7 cores which effected Cubase on Windows 10 , and performance of the audio engine with ASIO Guard On/Off.

I posted a report at my FB Page , which I will repost here with some additional detail.

Steinberg vs Windows 10 MMCSS !

Those using Cubase 9 that had been navigating the issues introduced in Windows 10 due to the limiting of MMCSS threading, will be familiar with just how debilitating the issue was on higher core systems.

Quick overview of the problem for those not affected or unaware. Windows 10 assigned a max 32 thread limit to MMCSS optimised processes , whereas Windows 7 did not have the same limitation.

Windows 10 reserves 4 threads leaving 28, however each process call assigns 2 threads , so that is halved again to allow 14 max. So to be clear, specific MMCSS processes can only be assigned to maximum 14 logical cores.

In practicality anything above 6 physical cores / 12 logical had the potential to be impacted , and the severity of the performance issues increased the higher the core count.

Steinberg were essentially blindsided due to investing very heavily into the MMCSS optimisations , so without an easy or quick fix, they released a hack/workaround where by Cubendo could be forced to see max 7 physical / 14 logical cores.

For those with the higher core systems that were affected , it at least gave them the ability to stabilize the system until a proper fix was found.

For me that was nowhere near an acceptable solution, considering I had clients with up to 16 core / 32 logical systems that were needing to hobble the systems to that degree.

I assembled a group of like minded colleagues comprising of Professional DAW builders and we effectively lobbied via a trusted MS rep for a fix. This took many months of extensive effort from all involved to finally convince MS to offer an "unofficial fix" for the MMCSS thread limiting , which comprised of allowing the limit to be raised. This was applied to larger core systems and completely resolved the issue.

It was unofficial because it was not a permanent fix , nor will it ever be, and was overwritten by updates that saw the entries as rouge , but it did resolve the issue and we had procedures in place to deploy and administrate it.

Steinberg were offered the fix by MS , they had absolutely zero involvement in getting it across the line, nor had any interest in being involved in lobbying for the fix. They were simply the beneficiary, and to be honest, were very clumsy in how they deployed it to the affected end users that were outside of our immediate catchment, so to speak.

Fast Forward to Cubase 10, and Steinberg announce that the MMCSS issue has been completely resolved , no need for workarounds or patches. From the initial release of C10, lets say I wasn't convinced, there was something not quite sitting with me, which I mentioned numerous times in the podcasts, but I hadn't put my finger on it as yet.

We were getting some wild and fluctuating results with the recent CPU testing with AG On/Off as well, which I will detail later the report , as its a deep rabbit hole , but first I'll highlight one area that is quite obviously changed, and I am informed this is part of the MMCSS " fix " for C10/N10.



What we are looking at is Cubase 9 and Cubase 10 with ASIOGuard Off , on a 6 Core with a reasonably heavy session running around 200 RXC Plugins.

Both C9 and C10 equally load balance as expected for the 6 Core / 12 Logical as it is below the threshold of max logical cores even without the MMCSS Hack/Fix.



Move to the 8 Core / 16 Logical and we have a clear difference in how C10 is assigning and load balancing across the available logical cores on the same session.

What is being displayed is Steinbergs C10 MMCSS "fix" that triggers at anything above 6 Cores / 12 Logical , in limiting the maximum number of threads to number of physical cores -1.

Yep, thats correct, on an 8 Core / 16 Logical CPU you are allowed max 7 logical cores of the 16 , whereas a 6 Core CPU will allow you to utilize all 12 !

I also tested this system with 7 Cores / 14 Logical and sure enough , physical cores -1 , so 6 max logical cores.

Obviously this isn't making much sense to me, and I am expecting Steinberg to just dismiss it as irrelevant as it only applies if ASIOGuard is switched off.

But its not as simple as that, there are working scenarios where ASIOGuard needs to be disabled, and it isn't the magic bullet they claim it to be in all instances anyway.

Sessions that are at a processing level that is higher than what is available with AG off, when track armed can collapse as tracks are forced to the lower hardware buffer, so overdubbing can be a challenge, and thats being polite.

That does not happen with AG off , simply because the realtime processing is known at any given time at the respective buffer setting being used.

Track arm has zero effect !

All that aside, the fact that they allowed a 6 Core CPU to still have all of its logical cores available, but anything above they come up with this mathematical theory where they need to hobble the total threads below the max available on the smaller CPU, is simply inane

Whats the fix, no idea to be honest, Steinberg by all right should not even have the ability to disable ASIOGuard with this behavior active, IMO, and the bigger question is whether its a bug or by design.

This is only Part 1 of the curves recently navigated , and its relevant to plugins in this specific test, but its not reserved to just plugins, and applies to VI's as well.

There are more curves to navigate with multipart instruments like Kontakt as well, which have their own multiprocessing / load balancing in play , but that is a whole other chapter, as Steinberg recommend disabling the MP capability of any VI that has it available.

For now I can highlight that Kontakt's own multiprocessing will initially mask the fact that Cubase is pulling cores with AG Off , but it is no longer working in sync with the max cores that Cubase is allowing to be assigned and load balanced across, so there are more than a few variables being thrown in the mix.

As noted earlier Steinberg could simply just dismiss all of the above as irrelevant and state that ASIOGuard needs to remain on for optimal performance.

Fair enough , until we get into a working scenario depicted below.



DAWbench VI, 8 Core , session running at 064 , moderate load with AG On , very minimal resources used, delivering the benefit of the 23+ms playback buffer that AG provides.



Same session with a single instrument track armed, and we get an immediate spiked core and session collapse.

The above environment is what was being navigated on some of the last round of CPU testing, when a single track was accidentally track armed, resulting in the wild variables that were not immediately picked up on.

Further investigation lead us to this scenario , but inevitably has opened an even wider line of questioning.

Stay Tuned , the rabbit warren is going to be deep.

P.S. I scrolled back to the start of this thread and realized its just tipped over 9 years since I originally posted it. It was fun reading back on some of those earlier exchanges, definitely a different time but the testing is still relevant and continues to evolve

I haven't done a lot of testing apart from the Audio Interface LLP for a while, but now that I have dipped my toe back in, I am returning to posting on this thread for all other performance reports , suite and podcast announcements, etc


Last edited by TAFKAT; 6th November 2019 at 11:28 PM.. Reason: Fixed a link to a picture*
Old 16th November 2019
  #200
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🎧 15 years
Quick update on the MMCSS situation with Cubendo

With the release of Cubase 10.5 this week, I wanted to quickly check whether Steinberg had come to their senses and restored the load balancing , max thread availability with CPU's above 6 Cores with AG Off.



Unfortunately not , still broken for anything above a 6 Core CPU.

At this point I have no choice but to completely remove Cubendo from all future DAWbench testing and benchmark sessions.

I really don't have the time or energy to be debating this with the Steinberg development, they obviously see no problem with the above behavior.

This ends close to 15 years that Cubendo has been one of the core DAW reference testing environments , all future testing will be focused on Reaper.

I will however continue with some testing and investigation with the issues surrounding their engine also collapsing with AG On when track arming a single instrument , but that is more so for my internal IP and support for my Cubendo clients. I will shared what I feel warranted.

Old 16th November 2019 | Show parent
  #201
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🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT ➑️
This ends close to 15 years that Cubendo has been one of the core DAW reference testing environments , all future testing will be focused on Reaper.
Looking forward to Reaper's turn at the bench...and I'm sure any suggestions for improvements will be met promptly and enthusiastically by Justin and co....a responsive and forward-looking platform!
Old 16th November 2019 | Show parent
  #202
Deleted 6833614
Guest
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT ➑️
At this point I have no choice but to completely remove Cubendo from all future DAWbench testing and benchmark sessions.

I really don't have the time or energy to be debating this with the Steinberg development, they obviously see no problem with the above behavior.
Did you start a thread on Cubase forums for this issue?
Old 16th November 2019 | Show parent
  #203
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13 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT ➑️
At this point I have no choice but to completely remove Cubendo from all future DAWbench testing and benchmark sessions.

I really don't have the time or energy to be debating this with the Steinberg development, they obviously see no problem with the above behavior.

This ends close to 15 years that Cubendo has been one of the core DAW reference testing environments , all future testing will be focused on Reaper.
I’m jumping off the update train extortion scheme. I paid to update to 9.5 last year and now the update to 10.5 is $159.99

They can shove it.
Old 16th November 2019 | Show parent
  #204
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deleted 6833614 ➑️
Did you start a thread on Cubase forums for this issue?
I haven't participated at the Steinberg forum in many years, and not intending to do so again.

Lets say I still carry some scars :-)

I don't believe Steinberg consider this an issue, from my understanding its by design.

They will simply dismiss it because it only effects the engine with ASIOGuard Off , but due to the fact that DAWbench is dependent on the measurement of the real time engine , it complete eliminates Cubendo from the future testing if it can't load balance across all available cores.

I doubt Steinberg will be concerned over being dropped from DAWbench.

Quote:
Originally Posted by studer58 ➑️
Looking forward to Reaper's turn at the bench...and I'm sure any suggestions for improvements will be met promptly and enthusiastically by Justin and co....a responsive and forward-looking platform!
Reaper has been an integral and core element in DAWbench for over 10 years , Justins involvement goes back to the beginning of the Universal Suite.

If you haven't already, check out the DAWbench Radio Show podcast , episode 2 features Justin for close to 2 hours.

Old 16th November 2019 | Show parent
  #205
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by zephonic ➑️
I’m jumping off the update train extortion scheme. I paid to update to 9.5 last year and now the update to 10.5 is $159.99

They can shove it.
Sign of times Z,

It was a smaller jump from 10, but its becoming more common to sting annually and punish those that don't. AVID are the masters of that business plan..., don't get me started.

I digress.

Old 16th November 2019 | Show parent
  #206
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by TAFKAT ➑️
I don't believe Steinberg consider this an issue, from my understanding its by design.

They will simply dismiss it because it only effects the engine with ASIOGuard Off , but due to the fact that DAWbench is dependent on the measurement of the real time engine , it complete eliminates Cubendo from the future testing if it can't load balance across all available cores.

I doubt Steinberg will be concerned over being dropped from DAWbench.
Hey Vin,

I enjoyed both episodes of the podcast so far. Great stuff!

As for the above, I actually think you are doing Steinberg a favour by dropping Cubase from DAWbench. I understand that you might not have the time, energy or will to continue including Cubase if Steinberg are not even pulling their own weight but wouldn't posting benchmark results that show Cubase performing much much worse than Reaper be more effective at having them change their approach?

Or maybe include a footnote in any benchmarks you post that you do not include Cubase because it, for whatever reason, can not use all cores in a system with more than 6 cores once AG is turned off?

I just feel that Steinberg shouldn't be let off the hook that easily. But again, I fully understand if you just couldn't be bothered any more.

Alistair
Old 17th November 2019 | Show parent
  #207
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🎧 15 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnderTow ➑️
Hey Vin,

I enjoyed both episodes of the podcast so far. Great stuff!
Cheers Alistair.

Quote:
As for the above, I actually think you are doing Steinberg a favour by dropping Cubase from DAWbench. I understand that you might not have the time, energy or will to continue including Cubase if Steinberg are not even pulling their own weight but wouldn't posting benchmark results that show Cubase performing much much worse than Reaper be more effective at having them change their approach?
In its current state it simply can't be used for any further benchmark testing, as the engine is simply broken with AG off IMO , and testing with AG On against other DAW's will be difficult as each have their own idiosyncrasies with their respective hybrid engines causing various issues with higher core systems i.e, StudioOne.

Reaper is the only one as detailed in the podcast by Justin, that has a completely different approach to managing the way it arbitrates the extended buffering routines ( Anticipative Processing). It also isn't effected by simply track arming an instrument as some of the others are when forcing that instrument to the real-time native buffer setting, and scales and threads perfectly at each respective buffer setting. In short, you know eactly how much real time overhead you have.

Quote:
Or maybe include a footnote in any benchmarks you post that you do not include Cubase because it, for whatever reason, can not use all cores in a system with more than 6 cores once AG is turned off?
I think detailing the issue being navigated and removing Cubendo from all future DAWbench Suite test sessions, is pretty much all I can do regards keeping everyone in the loop as to the reasons why.

Quote:
I just feel that Steinberg shouldn't be let off the hook that easily. But again, I fully understand if you just couldn't be bothered any more.
I don't think I have really let them off the hook , bringing this to the attention of users here and other mediums has brought some focus to the behavior.

Its up to them to respond if they feel warranted, I just don't care to engage with them personally, too much history to detail past that ship sailed years ago.



Last edited by TAFKAT; 17th November 2019 at 08:44 PM.. Reason: *Amended typo*
Old 20th November 2019
  #208
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🎧 15 years
Cubendo vs MMCSS : Part 3.

In the previous post where I combined 1-2, I mentioned some issues with VI's as well , even with ASIO Guard On , when dealing with multi-part VI's. Further complicated when they have their own multi-threading capabilities independent of the DAW's interaction with the Windows Task Scheduling.



As a follow up to the previous post re the effect of track arming an instrument within a multi-part Kontakt instance, here is the same test scenario in both C9 with the Unoffical MMCSS fix and C10/10.5 side by side.

C9 load balanced evenly across all available cores , the process was left rolling for a few seconds to show the balance in TM being even. C10 however immediately spiked the first core on TM , the remaining logical cores are showing to have some multiprocessing/load balancing assigned to a lesser degree, which I believe is the Kontakt 5 Multiprocessing assignment , not Cubase's , which has landed the processing on the first available core causing the spike.

This is indicating to me that anything forced to the higher priority MMCSS scheduling is also limited even with ASIOGuard On.

There are also significant performance variables in this test depending on the audio interface being used at the same latency.

Above example was on a Focusrite Scarlett Gen 2 at 4ms playback ( 064 ) , I also have test data of the exact session on a UFX+ under USB3 at the same playback buffer of 4ms playback ( 128 ) , showing significantly lower real-time load, again highlighting the importance of overall driver performance.

I'll leave that for another report as I am starting to digress.

I also have test data on disabling Kontakt Multiprocessing, as Steinberg have indicated that interferes with their internal multiprocessor load balancing / scheduling, and recommend it be disabled.

Lets just say that test with AG On was almost comical, as soon as I disabled the K5 MP the session playback collapsed even before any additional load was placed on it over the default orchestral/music elements. No additional polyphony , and track arming actually caused the session to completely garble and crashed the audio driver to the point I had to completely exit out of the session to regain playback.

Down the rabbit warren we go.

I need to fast track the new Reaper VI sessions.


Last edited by TAFKAT; 20th November 2019 at 06:02 AM.. Reason: *Amended for clarity*
Old 20th November 2019
  #209
TNM
Lives for gear
 
2 Reviews written
🎧 10 years
I just noticed the post about pro tools. I haven't been here much and this is the first time I followed this topic (I think).. well certainly recently in any case..

what was decided? was PT dropped from testing? I still like PT and use it a lot. I do know at anything under 128 buffer with tracks record armed at 44/48K or 256 buffer at 88+K it falls apart and will be thrashed by the others.. but in my own tests it beat all other DAWs in load balancing and polyphony at 128 buffer or above.. I'd be interested in doing some tests with it if it's still on the table. I have 2019.6 at present but can install 2019.10 if preferred.

Cheers
Old 20th November 2019
  #210
Gear Head
 
🎧 5 years
I was in the market for a new rig, but after reading this. I may just need a new DAW as well since I am looking to go probably to an 8-core CPU or more. For some reason it feels wrong to upgrade to a 6-core with all these higher core counts becoming more affordable just to keep using 1 piece of software to full potential. Thanks Steinberg. Or maybe it's time to dust of VEP...
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