There are some other threads around, mostly older ones, about Metric Halo vs. this or that.

I'm always late to every party (just bought altiverb last year, eesh! (yet happily so!)).

I'm somewhat seriously considering leaving the Apollo universe with an x8 and Twin for a LIO8 or perhaps ULN8.

In many ways feels a little goofy to go from the 800 pound gorilla to a much smaller company whose software, website, etc. still stuck in like 2004.

But I'm using UAD plugins a bit less than before, have more hardware than I used to, I actually like the metric halo channel strip when I need DSP in a pinch.

MH appeals:
1. blazing fast latency
2. perception of better convertor quality? Don't know how true that actually is
3. seemingly much more flexible software mixer for I/o

UAD appeals:
1. already own it
2. own a ton of plugins and many are very good
3. big company that's not going anywhere any time soon, big user base/support community

Anyone do anything similar in recent times?

From what I can tell, nothing other than perhaps the look of the website is 'stuck' anywhere. In fact, I know of no other brand who offer the option to physically upgrade interfaces you bought 20 years ago to current spec.

Love my ULN-8 mk4, and unless you need non native UAD plugs, you can still have them.

In 2025 there's really only 1 UAD plugin not available natively that I would actually miss and that would be difficult to replace. And the fact that they haven't released a DSP plugin in what feels like years really only makes their hardware that much more expendable in certain ways.

I get that MH does cool things other brands don't. Some of which are highly commendable. Whether it's fair or not, their public profile can make one wonder/ask questions. Their flagship software (console app and channel strip plugins) have been substantially similar for basically 15+ years. Their hardware has been on a steep sale for a while now (which is great for me as a potential customer), their website is super dated and pretty much broken in many ways. Feels like a one man show or a small operation running on fumes or something, kind of how URS went from the IT plugin company to more or less defunct in a very short period of time.

I obviously have no idea what I'm talking about, don't own the hardware or know the company or folks involved. Have a bit of software I like and am obviously intrigued by the hardware, so...

Metric Halo had a very big and impressive booth at NAMM this past January - bigger than RME, Avid, and DAD / Penta - while neither UA or MOTU even bothered to host a booth. Part of the added energy there came from Makebelieve Studios who developed many of the new plugins that MH are selling, all of which can run on the host or on the dedicated DSP inside the interfaces for use in the MH Console while tracking.

While the MH website may look a little old and funky, their documentation is extremely complete and goes deep into a lot of topics that other devs don't even mention, which I appreciate.

Their MH Console app seems to get very frequent updates, both for functionality and for appearance, and now has a modern flat UI with dark mode etc. It also supports use of MCU, MIDI, or even StreamDeck+ for remote control, which few other devs have got working. Using a four-knob StreamDeck+ as a monitor controller is very very cool - and no subscription to SoundFlow needed. Their StreamDeck+ support and long ethernet cable connectivity are the two most compelling features for me to switch from MOTU AVB.

Lastly, their founder and main dev, BJ, is very responsive and answers all sorts of questions posted to the main MH thread on this forum, from issues with 20-year-old hardware to beginner-level questions about features. This seems kind of unusual and pretty great.

So it doesn't look to me like they're limping by any means, but who knows.

I've mocked up setups to replace my AVB rig using interfaces from other manufacturers, and MH seems to come out on top (although I haven't pushed the button yet). My use case is not typical though - I need to push a minimum of 64 channels from my main DAW machine to a secondary print rig, I need surround or even Atmos monitoring, etc.

- RME = restrictive USB3 cable lengths (unless I use PCIe MADI cards + FerroFish analog boxes), and no networking / expansion to multiple interfaces (unless FerroFish via MADI etc.), but TotalMix is great and can import SonarWorks profiles for monitor correction eq. I tried a UFX-III a while back and with 12-foot USB3 cables I had occasional "interface not found" issues... 6-feet just ain't long enough for me, sorry.

- DAD / Avid = can do "ass-to-ass" mode so two DAW computers can connect to and share a single interface and pass audio to each other without using MADI, but in order to get more than 64 channels to either host you need to step up from MTRX Studio to AX64 / MTRX2 and the price gets a little nuts. AX-Center does pass 256 to the host but more limited i/o count (and expansion slots) than I'd need. Has Dante and 256 Thunderbolt channels, but only Avid-branded boxes have DigiLink (but don't have ADAT), while DAD-branded boxes do have ADAT but do not have DigiLink. So those restrictions are kind of a problem for me. Honestly, an MTRX Studio with their Thunderbolt card that could pass 256 channels to the host and had a single MADI i/o would totally do it for me. But 64 to the host (and no MADI) is just a little short.

- MOTU = My AVB rig has been flawless for more than a decade, has crazy good building-wide networking capabilities (and can do "ass-to-ass" mode), but is aging out (no TB3 / 4 or USB-C, etc), many products in the line are EOL or just unavailable, and no replacement line is on the radar yet. If they dropped updated AVB boxes I'd jump on them today.

- Focusrite RED = big money and big rack spaces for relatively few channels, must use Dante, must use PCIeNX card for high channel counts, and their R1 Remote is underwhelming. But really it's the Dante requirement that kills it for me.

- UAD = very meh 8 / 16 channel boxes with a single ADAT port, no networking or even MADI, and the onboard DSP doesn't matter to me as I have UAD Octo boxes already. Great for stereo-only "making records" folks, but they're not even in the game for me.

- Metric Halo = while not true "networked audio", using Cat cables for interface connectivity solves a lot of physical issues, i/o count vs cost is very decent, digital i/o expandability with their Edge Cards is fantastic, and their support for remote control of MH Console is unmatched. Hardware seems very rugged, front-panel control is very complete, and people do seem to love the analog quality of their AD / DA (no personal experience though). Being able to park interface(s) very far away and connect via a $30 Cat cable is super attractive and convenient, giving you remote preamps, analog+digital audio i/o, AND headphone outs in one rack space in the tracking room. Might have a winner here.

Tough call.

Stability of the company that gets your business is a typical concern. Small companies may cease to exist, and big companies may decide to discontinue products or support. Each of us has to choose their best balance of stability / cost / features / performance / support.

As for the recent pricing of MH hardware; Maybe they’re increasing cash on hand for ramping up something, maybe they’re trying to increase their customer base, maybe they’re in financial trouble, maybe they’ve really got their cost of goods under control and can lower their sales price. Who knows?

I’ve purchased two ULN-8 over the last 3 years; a used ULN-8 3D and a new ULN-8 MkIV. Wish I would have gotten the most recent sales price, but even so I’ve gotten great performing gear.

For me, the ULN-8 had the best ‘balance’ of what I was looking for. That’s why I now have two of them. I often recommend them, or at least make sure folks have an awareness of them.

First, love the software, wish I could use the hardware, but alas, I am a PC user.

But I did want to comment on this. My UFX+ has a 12 foot USB3 cable and I have never had that issues. Maybe the newer UFXiii has the issues with length or it's something else.

Returning you back to your MH hardware discussion (if I was a Mac person, I'd use their hardware)

USB 3 is a hard pass for me. If I’m trading out a system, it’s to get a faster, more future proof protocol, not a slower, already obsolete protocol.

Here's my experience:

I have owned a mid-sized home studio since the 1980s and have followed the tech from Tascam 688s through MOTU, Apogee and other interfaces.

My current setup is based around 2 Metric Halo interfaces (LIO8 and ULN8), a careful selection of outboard gear and a Mac Studio running Logic. I migrated to MH about 10 years ago.

My experience with the company has been uniformly positive across the board. The hardware and software have been rock solid and stable. Converters sound excellent and I have no need for fancy preamps given the quality of the internals in the MH boxes. User support is responsive and know their stuff, and MH even supports (user installed!) hardware upgrades. The 3D software takes a bit of getting used to but is incredibly deep and flexible.

It's one of those purchases that makes you lose interest in other options. Metric Halo is a great small company and their products are superb. That's why it is a bit of a cult.

How reliable is the MHLink ethernet connection? Not device-to-device - I'm sure they got their own propriety connector licked. I'm talking about the ethernet-to-computer connection. ie. Drop-outs, wake-from-sleep, compatibility with OS updates, etc...

I'm curious to hear about this from experienced MH owners too. I saw that MH did report issues with using the built-in Ethernet ports on some Mac models (can't remember which though) and their solution was to use an external TB >Ethernet adaptor like these, which you'd need anyway if you're using a Mac laptop without built-in Ethernet ports:

https://www.sonnettech.com/product/n...etworking.html

I have two of the smallest / cheapest ones lying around just in case, but I'm still curious to hear how MH-Link is behaving, either with or without an adaptor.

I’ve had no issues with the MH Ethernet to computer connection.

I’m using a Belkin USB-C to Ethernet adapter into a MacBook Pro M1.

I’ve never had a problem over ethernet. M1 Mac Mini.

Ethernet works fine with a 2012 macbook pro 15" (non retina) on built in ethernet, as well as 2021 M1Pro through a lenovo TB3 dock or apple tb2 ethernet adapter.

Thought of selling my MH gear since im so fed up with finding a Mio crash and starting up Mio console even the computer to just hear my connected synths... with my DM3 mixer its almost immediately ready to play or record..

Guys how do you feel about summing its 128 channels of MIO?

I’ve used up to 20 channels during tracking (on location recording) and monitoring, and I’ve also been using the MIO Console / ULN-8 for mixing (summing, routing, DSP). I believe the summing mixer has 80-bit resolution. I’m very satisfied.

Okay, I've been doing a deep dive into MHLink the last couple days and while I really really like the using idea of using Cat5/6 cable to make the near-20' run from the computer to my interface rack, I am getting the impression MHLink is less suited for modern 2025 writing & recording workflows which can often involve tracking with virtual instruments, amp sims, etc. Talking <5ms rtl DAW latency with real-world, everyday settings. Feel free to correct me if I am way off base.

rock solid here

It's a small engineering-driven company which devotes their resources to product stability/improvement and customer service. I've never seen another company who have maintained the long-term commitment to upgradeability and development that they have. Their web site may not be fancy, but the gear and support are second to none.

MH advertise round trip latency, audio in converted to digital, run through their DSP in MIO, and being converted back to analog, as happening in a fraction of a second. How this could be true, and also a VST instrument having 5+ ms latency doesn’t make sense. Obviously your mileage may vary in terms of how powerful your computer is to run a soft synth at low latency is a different thing, and not anything MH can control. Part of the appeal of MH to me is that .5ms round trip latency at 96khz.

To be fair the Apollo x8 I have is I think right around 1ms. And many of the plugins add .5-1ms of additional latency. That’s also very fast.

They are advertising the latency between MH aggregate devices, not the typical MHLink round trip latency to computer and back (RTL), which of course varies depending on buffer settings and such.

Again, that's internal device processing latency, not RTL with the computer/DAW.

I use my studio in part as a practice and recording room for my band: guitar, keys, bass, drums and vocal. We rehearse live with MIDI drums through Superior Drummer, keys through Keyscape or one of several synths, plus guitar bass and vocals tracked and monitored in real time through Logic and a big Genelec monitoring system plus a dedicated set of drum monitors. Generally have Logic set up with a 64 sample buffer.

I couldn’t give you the exact latency, but it has been good enough for live monitoring and recording since about 2015. We’ve made a couple of albums using the setup, and it has been stable through multiple software and computer upgrades. All tracking and outboard here run through Metric Halo interfaces x 2.

Was there something more specific you are worried about? We have never had a problem with latency using this set up.

In the interest of full-disclosure, I am a Metric Halo endorser, and proudly-so. The company has consistently delivered products (both hardware and software) which are well engineered and incredible sounding, and their support is top-notch. I cannot say the same for UA.
I have done full albums using only the ULN-8 and its built in mic pres, and would not hesitate to do so again in the future. It is an exceptionally good piece of gear, and my only complaint remains that MH does not offer a Digilink edgebus module, so I cannot connect them directly to a Pro Tools HDX rig.

Thanks for reporting in - very helpful. I was hoping for specific latency data for a setup like you describe. ie. RTL for your 64 sample buffer. Latency is very subjective and one person's "good enough" may be another's "unusable."

It's generally accepted rtl latency should be under 10ms before it starts becoming a potential issue. So what is the ideal MHLink setup for achieving this without worrying about stability? ie. Sample rate and buffer size.

From Metric Halo's website:

Ultra-low converter latency
Converter latency reduced by 85% compared with previous generation
Round-trip through Converters + Mixer + DSP + Monitor:
≈ 0.9ms @ 44.1k
≈ 0.2ms @ 192k

I understand that the DAW itself addresses the interface and there's some extra latency involved. BUT:

1. The round trip latency of the ULN8 Mk4 itself is ridiculously low
2. I believed that latency introduced by the DAW was substantially a function of how fast an interface/convertor worked. my old emagic EMI 2/6 interface from 2001 running at 44.1khz would probably be very slow, over a USB 1 connection, and the device, connection protocol, and the speed of the convertor itself would mean that even at 32 sample buffer, latency is likely going to be 10+ms.

Conversely, on a blazing fast protocol like 10gb ethernet, with blazing fast convertors, the latency of a new MH device would be a hell of a lot faster than 5ms just for output latency...

That doesn't sound right at all. Even my Apollo which by all accounts is a "slower" device is a lot faster than that.

I believe you are still confusing converter/device latency with total round trip latency. (see below)

ie. analog input to interface > A/D conversion > connection to computer (MHLink ethernet) > DAW (buffer, sample rate) > connection out from computer (MHLink ethernet) > D/A conversion = round trip latency

I don't think that I am. I understand that the DAW addressing the interface adds latency. But at least on a Mac, these are core audio devices and the overall latency is going to largely depend upon the latency inherent to the underlying device itself. When the device's inherent latency is low, there's no reason why Ableton live adds 2ms of latency on an Apollo and 5ms of latency to a MH device, especially when the MH device is inherently faster. Maybe that's some weird windows crap where brands have to develop specific ASIO drivers or something.

I saw your note and was curious myself. So this morning wired a cable from the headphone out on the LIO-8 to the mic input on the ULN-8 (which is set up as the master unit).

Just to make sure we are on the same page and I haven't done something wrong: computer is an M1 Mac Studio Ultra, Logic latency is set at 64 samples, recording at 44.1K/sec. I dropped a drum loop in into Logic, set it out through the mains and back in via the cable to the ULN-8 mic input and recorded it in Logic on a second track. Then zoomed in the adjacent tracks and using the sample editor measured the transient offset between the source and recorded track.

I measured 166 samples which at 44.1 should be equivalent to around 3.8 msec RTL, including both Logic and the MH interface. Seems pretty respectable - I expect that when we have multiple MIDI instruments and some tracking plugins enabled the latency is higher, but as I said it feels pretty tight to me - and more importantly to the drummer. Obviously a higher sample rate will reduce this number.

I'll attach an image of the measurement FYI.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/oowqo...=bujx9cq0&dl=0

Wow! - 3.8ms at 44.1 is a great result! Thanks for the follow up on this! (And yes, e-drums and guitar amp sims are what I am looking at this for. So good to hear your drummer approves.)

I had to read through your test set-up a couple times, but it appears pretty valid to me. Otherwise, this free RTL Utility app is what the kids seem to be using these days: https://oblique-audio.com/rtl-utility.php

After reading this, I am seriously leaning toward MHLink. The idea of a $360 Thunderbolt cable (which is known for heating up, BTW) on a Thunderbolt interface does not appeal to me in the least. An expensive weak link in the chain, if you ask me. Another concern is that AFAIK there is only one reputable manufacturer of active Thunderbolt cables (Corning).

Thanks again for the info!

Yep, you will definitely save some money on cables.

I really don't think you would regret the MH system - just prepare for a learning curve with the software, especially the logic of signal routing which has some traps for young players.

Just an FYI, since I was already set up to look at latency, I ran a couple of other tests with Logic: (1) with our band recording template with an audio signal and some master buss plugins installed but not enabled (15 msec), (2) same setup but with no plugins on the master buss (3.8 msec, identical to the bare bones test), and (3) a MIDI keyboard with the Keyscape VI, measuring the start of the MIDI note to the start of the recorded audio note (9 msec).

I had no idea that the master plugins were having that much impact - they are gone from the template!

That's why latency is such a hard thing to nail down - it is influenced by a lot of variables and as you say, some people are more sensitive than others. But the base measurement of 3.8 msec using a bare Logic project is stable and useable for most applications.

For using outboard gear with the MH system, Logic has a great I/O tool that automatically measures and compensates for latency so you can mix in a sample-accurate hardware-processed signal.