Howdy all,

I am getting more serious about recording myself, but I really don't know what to purchase next.

I currently use a Gen3 4i4, and I am sick of it. It creates buzzing in the monitors when plugged in to PC via USB. There is no option to use a power adapter...

I only record myself, one instrument at a time, and so I have a Rupett Neve Shelford Channel Strip plugged into a line input on the 4i4. This seems very mismatched, in terms of price / quality.

I want my Shelford to reach my DAW in the best way possible, or at least a "midrange" solution. No more bus powered humming, good A/D conversion, but preferably staying with USB transfer for ease of use.

I'm not totally opposed to a sound card or something, but it seems these are outdated and USB is supposed to be just as good?

What are some great solutions for somebody like me? A "good, better, best" type of analysis could also help me. I'd rather not drop 3k for a pro A/D converter and sound card, but if you convince me, I might?

Well your Focusrite jolly well shouldn’t be making noise like that. I’d find out why it does and fix it. Most likely it’s a problem elsewhere in your setup.

A mismatch in price is irrelevant. The mismatch in quality (I assume you mean between your channel strip and the 4i4) is probably only relevant when you get good enough to know, which you won’t while you’re getting this noise. My guess it the computer, but obviously I don’t know for sure.

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I suggest this because I get the feeling you might drop a small fortune on replacing the 4i4 only to have similar problems with the new interface. When all’s said and done, Focusrite gear is close enough to good enough.

It does sound like a power issue. Often you see this more often when you have a separate power supply, but it appears you have the opposite issue!

Are you using a laptop - if so, does it still happen when the laptop is on battery power?

Can you try your interface on another computer to see if that is the issue?

Again if you have a laptop - can you check it in another room, another building?

Can you beg/borrow/steal another interface to try with your computer - to see if there's a difference? It might be a problem with your interface specifically in which case another similar option might be fine.

Before dropping any money, you need to work out where the problem lies. So isolate it.

As for the original request - There's nothing really wrong with Focusrite conversion. The preamps are a maybe a little underpowered but you've taken care of that. Unless you're listening (without noise!) in a good space, you're unlikely to notice a difference in purely conversion upgrades (other than placebo).

The Focusrite pushes noise out to the monitors when the USB is plugged into the computer.

I have tried different USB cables, and I have tried different USB ports on the computer.

I've looked into the issue online as best as I can, and I believe it is likely an issue with the USB power being provided by my computer.

There are "clean usb power" solutions, but they are as expensive as a new interface.

Additionally, I have all of my recording gear on Furman power conditioners - two of them - not the super high end ones, but in this case, I don't think that would help. Not sure though.

Externally powered RME or something like MOTU Uktralite MK5 should be super clean.

What computer and what monitors do you use? Do you have buzzing on the headphone out too?

As said before here the buzzing is not normal and should be trouble-shooted before doing anything else. Swap cables, including power cables on the monitoring. Try to swap channels and see if one output of the interface is faulty or the speaker has a problem. Also try in a different room and especially on a different computer. Powered USB-Hubs are cheap and will help if your computer is not delivering enough juice.

The Focusrite interfaces are better than some people online try to make believe. Before I bought a RME Babyface Pro FS I used a 2i4 for the longest time. The differences between the two are quite small when it comes to A/D. Mic pre's and headphone amp on the RME are noticeably better. Since you got a proper pre I would spend the money elsewhere. Mics, room treatment do make real differences. ADDA comes long after that.

In which location and country are you in? That will help me asses your power...

Focusrite is cheap, lowest common denominator stuff. Ok for the money. I had friends with all kinds of wild issues over the years, and of course they always bloody ring me! Totally incapable of providing full fat +48v on the older series.

I would get a USB cable with a ferrite bead on, you may even already have one plugged in a printer or the like.

Much as I love Furmans they don't actually do a lot. Please look around the web for more on that one.

Shelford is lovely. I would follow other advice and get a soundcard that has mains power. If you are looking to be affordable an SSL 2+ might fit the bill. Although that is not mains powered.

This allows to externally power USB-powered gear and get rid of ground loop noise:

https://ifi-audio.com/products/idefender-plus/

Then they have 2 other options that reduce noise:

https://ifi-audio.com/products/isilencer-plus/
https://ifi-audio.com/products/ipurifier3/

I saw those.. they are a bit cheaper than I remember, but I think I would additionally need to get a plug in adapter for the iDefender to help.

And I am not certain if that would actually help. It's a lot of money to try, versus spending a bit more and getting a new interface with a power adapter that can keep it separated from audio signal.

If I had a 5v or 9v adapter, I could just turn USB power off from Windows. But I appreciate the responses and suggestions.

Reluctant to go there but... anyone considering buying a magic beans power solution, please make sure you can return it for a refund.

It is highly unlikely to make a difference. As I said before there is plenty of empirical evidence of this with full AP scope analysis out there on the web.

Power is essential, but a very boring topic for me. (Too much in the day job.)

I built my computer from parts - if Ibremember right, i9 13700, 64gb DDR5, 4070ti, Steel Legend mobo... my PSU is more powerful than needed, but I am wondering if my PC is overall more power hungry than it should be, or even if something is misconfigured. Which brings me to others suggestions of trying the interface on others setups.

The monitors are KRK 5 inch. I would like to replace them, but I do not think they are the problem. If I plug in / unplug the USB cable on the focusrite, the sound gets dramatically louder / quieter.

I have tried all USB ports, multiple USB cables, different line outs, different monitor cables (fairly expensive cables at that).

I believe I am at a point where I need room treatment above anything else, but if I am going to replace the interface due to buzzing, I would rather not buy twice.

I am in the US near Detroit. I appreciate your suggestions as well as your skepticism and criticism towards Focusrite. I am about fed up with this thing.

Ah the US, ok so you have a chance at least.

Biggest issue I had in the states is Ground. Almost every room , building etc. seemed to have its own imaginative approach. I kept hearing "Code violation" a lot. Not quite sure what they were on about.

I was not particularly knocking Focusrite, they make a popular cheap entry level product. But it would a push to describe it as professional. (Whatever that means these days.)

I am knocking people /companies who sell products that could not possibly do anything, to people who are desperate to sort out their noise issue. They are exploiting the vulnerable and I can't stand that.

It seems that idefender thing, since it has that extra power input, may be able to address certain issues if they stem from the laptop itself.

At least logically thinking about it (I’m no electrical engineer).

Yes that would be a start. (Separate power)

True Galvanic isolation would not be cheap!

You'd be amazed how much published music was recorded and mixed through Focusrite Scarletts. Call it amateur, prosumer or professional gear or some other names. Just like most $200.- interfaces in the market it's actually good enough for 95% of the use cases, espc if you have a decent mic-pre to go with it.

Anyhow: I still am waiting to hear the details of the chain - monitors etc and if the OP did try cable swaps, another computer etc. I suspect there are other issues at bay which esoteric USB-dongles won't cure. Check audiosciencereview for a few measurements of these. Most do nothing, some make things worse.

Also why not test with cheap 5V charger for the 4i4? They are 5 bucks on Amazon or 50 cents at the thrift store.

shelford into a budget focusrite interface?

it's time to upgrade the interface.

i was stunned by how good this sounded at AES:
https://www.rme-usa.com/adi-2-dac.html

really clean.

i'm not sure how this particular product maps onto the rme grey colored product line. but it was seriously excellent.

an apogee duet 3 gets you out of budget land and into something good:
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...-duet-3-bundle

if you go this route, definitely get the "dock". the breakout cables are clunky and annoying. why apogee went with breakout cables, i will never know. but the interface itself is very good quality, and the dock makes it structurally sensible.

There are two or three different problems here.
1. Your computer is pumping common-mode noise out the USB ports. Switchmode power supplies are notorious for doing this. Isolated power bricks are often the worst offenders but desktop supplies can do it too.
2. Your Focusrite interface lacks a genuine earth ground, the injected USB shield current has nowhere to go but back out on the shields of your monitor cables.
3. Your entry-level KRK monitors have poor common-mode rejection and are turning this ground current into audible noise. (You are using balanced interconnects, aren't you? If not, go to EMC Jail. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.) They may even be picking up high frequency interference from the cable shields, which are acting as antennas. (I've heard complaints about susceptibility problems with KRK stuff in the past.)

You can test this theory by putting inline barrel transformers in your monitor feeds to see if the problem goes away.

Replacing your converter set with one that uses a grounded IEC power inlet will probably shunt the injected current back to earth before it can cause mischief.

As ever, David's advice on the money!

All the other advice is good - BUT before spending significant money, isolate the issue!

Faultfinding seems to be a lost art these days, but it's really the basics of audio engineering.

No I am aware of that and have heard it everywhere. Hence the description of not professional. Just because it sounds awful wont affect record sales.

When I was upgrading my home recording equipment (for solo fingerstyle guitar) I decided to get very good gear for a limited number of channels. I chose external preamp channels and external AD converters feeding my interface.

Since you already have your Shelford channel you might want to consider getting an external ADC with its output then feeding an audio interface (quality of the interface is not as critical when using the external gear, maybe consider the Motu 624 or Ultralite AVB). If that's a good option for you, I'd suggest you take a look at the Mytek Digital Stereo192 ADC I have listed in the classified section. (Over time I accumulated 4 channels of external preamps and ADC, but now only need two external channels, so I have one of my ADCs for sale.)

Mytek Digital Stereo192 ADC

I disagree. It's generally down to the user - I've recorded vocals that sound fine through Scarletts. Not through choice; but it's more likely because it's being used by inexperienced people.

A FEThead can work wonders

Fair point. The equipment is at the mercy of the operator.
professionals will work with what's available and get the best results they can. Some wonderful engineers will have used Focusrites and so will the not so wonderful.

At least everyone can have a go, that was not true in the 80's.

And new cheap and very popular interfaces like the Gen4 Scarlett and MOTU M2/4 have pretty decent audio specs these days

Right.

If they sound bad generally, it's usually through operator error.

Or pushing the limits (eg the typical "I've got an Sm7b and it doesn't sound good...)