Every thread...every SINGLE thread of a new product from Slate, Waves, AA, UAD (pretty much anything now that I think about it) inevitably turns into a shitstorm with the exact same tired arguments (and I mean EXACTLY the same arguments, no variations on the theme, just the order in which they are presented). Let me give the caveat that developers' continued use of hyperbole IS annoying because we are not idiots and said product may fall short of it's intended target, I get that. But there is a point where it just becomes noise and sifting through pages of nonsense is WAY more irritating than any publicity copy generated by a developer.

Every thread must be a pointless series of exchanges based on brand loyalty or the need to make anyone who disagrees feel like an absolute imbecile. Meanwhile less and less people talk about what the product being discussed on the thread is like in actual use. I am not against disagreements and healthy discourse. I've had my opinion about a given product changed by listening to examples and tips on workflow because I didn't get it right and needed someone to point me in the right direction. I have 0 issues being wrong about a given subject and have been corrected more than a few times over the years. But give me something, ANYTHING besides just your opinion with nothing to back it up. I WANT to be educated on something that I am ignorant on. But please give me something to go on.

I dislike it very much when someone bandies about a negative opinion without a single AUDIO example (you know, audio? What we actually do here?) of why X or Y product sucks. Mr. Phil is right, stop feeding the Trolls. There are people here who could give an opinion based on just their body of work and not give a single example because that body of work gives them built in credibility (Bgrotto comes to mind). And yet they STILL give examples of what they are talking about because they know that it helps to have examples for better comprehension of what they are trying to say.

Been here for over 15 years and I am in my mid 50s so I've gotten to see the gradual change from intelligent discourse and example based opinions (with a few notable exceptions) completely devolve into bullshit arguments that do more for the individual egos of those looking to cause a stir than informing/helping/educating the community which ultimately was what this place was originally all about.

I have a little proposal for all the opinion only based members of the community. Lets get some tracks for any who wish to participate and let's create a mix of the exact same song with whatever developer's tools you prefer using only their SSL based tools (SSL, Waves, UAD, Slate, take your pick. Tools like noise gates, transient enhancers, de-essers, tape emulations, reverbs, delays etc. are open to whatever you want). I want to hear what you are actually capable of doing with whatever you claim is the right tool and let's see what you come up with. I'm talking a simple Drums, Bass, Guitars and Vocals track with actual human dynamics in the performance. A well performed track is needed so that mixing is the sole consideration. I am sure that in all the mixoff sites we can find something that fits the bill.

My guess? I am going to read a lot of "I don't have to prove anything...my opinion is valid because I say I am experienced and blah, blah, blah". My retort in advance is if you can't walk the walk and all you have are excuses then your opinion does not matter because you do not have the knowledge and/or experience to actually give an informed opinion.

I invite all of you anonymous keyboard warriors to put you money where your mouth is and show ALL of us why we should give the slightest bit of credence to anything you say. Note that I have mentioned no names as you know exactly who you are. I say this because inevitably someone will get triggered and react without realizing that they were not mentioned. The objective of this exercise is simple, can you create a solid mix with your tools of choice?

The tracks can be provided by anyone who chooses to but it must be a human performance so that all those little imperfections need to be ironed out. All mixes should be right at -14 LUFS so that we have an even playing field.

Years ago I used to do this for fun, and it WAS fun. Everyone learned from different perspectives on how to approach similar problems and everyone benefitted. It is not a competition and it was never meant to be one. We are all here to learn from each other and I am legitimately curious if there is anything to learn from you.

I invite anyone who cares to participate to show all of us the quality of your work.

Any takers?

Right on !!!

I'm totally up for this using only Slate Plugins

I'm in. Team Acustica using just Sand and Celestial (plus reverb/delays).
Won't be able to work on it until Wednesday though.

I am currently up to my eyeballs and am going to have a break in about 2 weeks. This gives time to anyone who wants to participate to get in on this. I'm a little disconnected from sites that have mixing stems. Any ones you can point me to that may have tracks with the criteria mentioned? If not I'm sure I can track down something in my old drives that will fit the bill but I would rather we do something I've never heard before.
As for tools I originally thought to go with UAD (since Doom went AA and EvenHarmonics went Slate) but , I will go with Slate since they finally rounded up their entire SSL combo pack and I am curious as to how it all ties in together.

Count me in.

My suggestion would be Wesley Morgan's Back Room in Tulsa on the Cambridge Audio multitrack library. It's recorded by world renowned Oz Fritz so there can be no excuses about famous mixers getting a different class of recording to work with.

Honestly, I've opened up the multitrack a couple of times and have been so intimidated. It already sounds like a record and I know my amateur hour futzing could only make it sound worse, no matter whose plugins I use!

Full disclosure - I don't want anyone to get into hot water over the distribution of published master tracks - I'm not a professional mixer (serious hobbyist) and have no published recordings so if this causes you any problem them I am happy to bow out.


Otherwise, my time and ears are all yours

Well, this immediately sounds like the right thing. Are the tracks 96k? I only ask because of the resource issues that brings. Not everyone has a computer that can tackle that. Worse case scenario we agree to convert them to 48k for resource management purposes.

I just went to YouTube and heard the track. Plenty of dynamics with great players, perfect!
Thanks for the quick response, this is going to be fun
Can you provide download links?

I'm fine with 96k

This is a good point, are there any copyright issues we should be aware of or are the tracks available to use for anyone?

None, not from the library chosen. Just checked

44.1 kHz files

I won't link the files directly, because I wouldn't want to rob Mike Senior of the ad hits. He performs a great service by running his library.

Multitrack library: https://www.cambridge-mt.com/ms/mtk/

Search the page for "Tulsa" and you'll find the download link.

Downloading, I haven't done anything like this in quite a while and I am definitely looking forward to it. BTW that site as a whole is an excellent resource, thanks for the head's up!

Basically this mix is done way back only Waves plugins so I can't participate but will put this one on the table.

Beautiful mix man, great job!

Mix Off looks cool!

Mix Challenge is a hidden gem with prizes:
https://mix-challenge.com/

Just downloaded the files. This was a good selection. Less than 20 tracks and well recorded. I'm looking forward to Wednesday!

I love this kind of challenges and love the song.

I could do two separate mixes, one with UAD and one with Slate.
I compare plugins on the same song all the time but rarely come up with a finished mix... this is a great opportunity to do just that!

Shall we have a separate thread to post our mixes?

Best,
Andy

There shan’t be any takers, sadly

I just wish we could nuke the troll stuff instantly… it’s so tiresome, man

I think that is an excellent idea (creating a dedicated thread and linking it here for those that wish to participate). I would also love to hear what felt/sounded different to you (between UAD and Slate). I will probably do the same as I feel that a complete mix DOES give more complete idea of sound/workflow, especially from 2 things that claim to be the same but are obviously not.

Curiously enough it is the people who actually want to discuss the product that are participating. What a surprise right? And yeah, it gets old...REALLY old. GrammynOut2 suggested a price discussion ban and in all honesty at first I agreed wholeheartedly but after thinking about it I'm a bit torn on the subject. It's not that I have an aversion to discussing price, that can be constructive too and gives perspective to the individual considering the purchase.

Sometimes it's worth the price, for me P42 Climax comes to mind. At the beginning I didn't get it because I was using it wrong. I tried it as it was intended and now it is a staple of my workflow (again, someone else pointed me in the right direction and I benefitted from it). Other times it doesn't. IMO the PA 9099 had absolutely no business costing what it did, especially compared to Amethyst (both the Rupert Neve Amek Consoles). To others it was awesome and that is the beauty of all of this. Everyone sees/hears things differently but we CAN discuss it civilly and collectively benefit.

Besides in the case of the 9099 I recently saw it sold for a way more reasonable price and with PA you only have to be patient for that to happen. It's fine if we as individuals in a community disagree with the price but you mention it once and then you move on, it doesn't have to be the mess that it always seems to become.

The problem is that there is an entire group that wants things at the price they want and/or listens with their eyes. This means that anything that disagrees with that worldview turns into pages of petty garbage the rest of us have to sift through.

I apologize for the rants, back to the topic at hand

I guess I should have a go seeing as I suggested the track.

I'm going to go for Kush and Sly-Fi because no-one else has and it will be an interesting challenge doing a mix without a node based EQ or mastering limiter. I usually use Greg's plugins as a sprinkling of colour, so it will be cool trying not to use anything else. No fixing is needed with these tracks (beyond editing out sticks hitting tom mic's), so I reckon it's doable.

I'm not expecting great things, not only because this isn't how I make my living but also because I will have to mix entirely on headphones.

I have nothing to lose though, and it will be great to take a step outside my comfort zone.

I'll be late to the party, but will also jump in once in the new studio :¬)

I like this idea. Like Judders, this is not my day job, but I enjoy it. I should have time to download the files and work on this over the weekend. There’s a large winter storm heading our way, so electricity may be a concern. Fingers crossed.

I’ve become very comfortable with PA’s 4000E channel strip and Townhouse comp over time, so I’ll be going the PA route with this.

Anyway, looking forward to hearing what everyone comes up with. I can see this being very educational, and I’m hoping to have my eyes opened by some of the very talented people here. Thanks for the opportunity to participate.

Hope it's OK for us non-opinion only based people who use a variety of tools to participate. Since you want SSL emus I'll try with the PA 9000J. Fun!

Seems like the perfect opportunity for someone with the whole DMG Audio toolbox to give it a go.

I’d like to participate but don’t have many SSL plugs. I could do:

Fabfilter
Reaper Stock Plugins
Reaper Stock +JS (all included or free downloads)
Soundtoys

Is there a deadline?

@ bigEjams , studioman22 and Judders

You know what? Let's do it by developer then. All compression and EQ MUST be from the same developer and preferably the same type (in my case SSL, this is more my to see/hear how Slate's SSL stuff comes together as a whole to satisfy my personal curiosity). As stated before Delay, Reverb, gating, transient shaping, tape, etc. is open to whatever. I had originally narrowed it down to just SSL because I wanted whomever said "oh this version is MUCH better" to prove it. Because this has turned into a legitimate good time mixoff let's broaden the scope to do it by developer and see what happens.

I love doing stuff like this and it has been years since I did it just for fun. I am also grateful that this community hasn't completely eroded into Trollville. Things like this make me smile and I am very glad so many want to participate in good faith.

Yeah, would be cool by developer, but how in the world would you ever police such a thing? Good faith?

This is an exercise, not a competition. There is no policing because there is nothing to win outside the newly acquired knowledge that said exercise will bring. Everyone who participates knows what they did and how they did it. If someone decides to cheat they will know that they were not capable on delivering on what they said and that will be on them.

If someone finds that they needed to use something outside what they originally stated I would hope that they would say what they used and where the original workflow failed. That helps us all collectively. Hopefully someone else who has a lot of experience with that tool can give the user who wasn't successful a tip or two that will help them know that tool better. Once again, helping the collective.

The objective here is to find out 3 things:

1- how we deal with limitations (like you would if you have to go to another studio and work with unfamiliar tools).

2- to see how our tools can be used beyond what we normally think they can be.

And finally 3- to learn from each other. The only hard rule is all mixes must be at -14 lufs.

So yeah, good faith