Two possibilities I can think of.

Some copy protections do sneaky, naughty, unsupported things with files, disks, partitions and filesystems. Like hiding data in a reserved bit of a disk. Or making files that are technically invalid. This can get overwritten, 'repaired' or 'corrected' or disassociated into oblivion by the OS overwrite.

The other one is that the license software has made a 'fingerprint' of the system it was installed on and tied itself to that. If the system changes enough to render the 'fingerprint' invalid it assumes it has been illegally copied to somebody else's machine or similar and says 'nope'.

I don't know about iLok/eLicenser specifically but have seen both those things with other protection schemes.

thanks - I totally understand why 'system ids' may change - I just wondered why Pete picked those specifically as 'almost certainly'.

Like others, if I install W11 then I'll do a W10 upgrade but if it means some software will need reinstalling then I'd like a heads up before I do it.

Lots of (most?) software uses its own inbuilt copy protection so is it likely that all that needs reinstalling too ? Usually based on some kind of 'sys id' .... At some point is it easier just to do a clean install rather than chasing all the stuff that hasn't survived the update ?

I have updated a music and a games pc. Nothing needed reinstalling, not found anything significantly not working yet either by way of software or hardware.
Much the same as Win10 updates which I can't recall as problematic as a rule.

The graphics/ folder are much nicer, right?

Stop, man! You’re killing me. Listening to people talk about their updates is like hearing about a succulent steak while I’m fasting.

Oh well. At least I have the Melda update to hold me over. They updated their browser too.

It's just with how they do the copy protection. They don't use anything built-into Windows, but instead do their own thing their own way. It just doesn't migrate over.

From past experience from myself and others here, just about every time there's a Windows upgrade, those products need to be reinstalled.

I use the soft eLicenser for something. I forget what now. I haven't had to reinstall that, but every time I do an upgrade, it pops up a dialog box in the middle of the setup complaining that it can only be used by one installation at a time and can't be shared. :P

Pete

I haven't run into other software that needs reinstallation. If they're using persistent identifiers supplied by Windows, they should just work.

The iLok (and to a lesser extent, eLicenser) experience is based on tons of reports of it here over the various Windows 10 upgrades.

Pete

thanks Pete - re: the elicencer, it can be a bit fussy even after a 'service pack' type update. Usual fix is to run it as Administrator (not just a user with admin privileges) - although I'm not sure I've seen that particular dialog you describe.

Obviously both ilok/elicencer are primarily USB based but I assume the licence issue is with the soft-elicencer/ilok cloud tied to a sysid of some sort.

Either way knowing that some copy protection stuff doesn't migrate succesfully makes me a little more nervous....I'll hold on on my main audio PC I think.

By ‘elicenser’, are we talking Cubase?

While we’re on it, has anyone had to deauthorize their updated machine and authorize the new one? I remember forgetting to do this with one developer going from macOS to windows and had to contact support.

Do what's right for you, of course. Just know that a reinstall or run as admin as brought up earlier, has always fixed those. It's pretty easy to deal with. Copy protection is always walking a fine line between being useful and user hostile. I'm not a fan, but I get why it exists. :P

Pete

essentially yes - there are a couple of other manufacturers who use it but basically it's Steinberg's current USB based (plus software only version too) licensing solution. I think it may even predate iLok ? I can't remember when SB moved over from that parallel port dongle.

11, you know...

From experience machine based activations such as iLok and Codemeter tend to stop working after O/S upgrades. iLok will generate a new machine ID for your computer. To avoid any issues before updating it's best to either remove any machine based activations or to move all licences to a USB dongle.

I have upgraded to Win 11 without any iLok issues ... like lots of other things, it just works. I had a similar upgrade experience to Pete, with Opera windows retained, etc. So, I'd take his advice and be prepared, but it's not a definite issue? When I changed MB/CPU I had a new machine identity and had to change stuff, but 10 to 11 seems little different to a 10 update.

By all accounts it's stable and no major issues. Rough around the edges and unpolished though. Very odd and disappointing that MS didn't properly and thoroughly rework the UI. We have multiple generations of inconsistent UI elements piling up now. And a few minor quirks. A number of headline features missing at this point. Anyway, looks fine but no reason to rush into it and not much to be excited about yet.

I am slightly nervous that the ominous sounding "universal mute" will do stuff that messes horribly with us audio folks. I expect a future of a thousand "Halp!!!! No SOUND!!!??? Whyyyyyy#*$!!" threads here and on Reddit from this one. {See Pete's clarification below.}

FWIW, ASIO is a completely separate stack, so nothing we do with mute or anything else with audio will impact it. That's why the volume slider doesn't even do anything for ASIO

Pete

Ah, OK. Thanks Pete.

I updated a laptop as a test via the installation assistant. Took about 30 mins from start to finish....longer than a 'service pack' type update but not too bad and no outside assistance needed. Very painless.

Seemed to migrate 'most' settings but some not quite right (compact view in folder lists for example)

ilok was fine
elicencer had the usual upgrade/corrupt error but running as Adminstrator fixed it (as always)

MS does the usual annoying practice of quietly installing stuff you almost certainly don't want, MS Teams for example - plus lots of shortcuts to Solitaire, Adobe lightroom and other rubbish.....(sigh). A few odd things pop into the Startup Apps group too

The whole start menu area is a bit of a car crash IMO - you can remove the 'recommended' files but you end up with a big blank area...The 'pinned app' area isn't big enough and you can't organise it. It's a step backwards.

Lot's of other small irritations like enabling the 'startup sound', or making 'right click' on the taskbar pretty useless, but hey, that's progress.

The new look is nice but lots and lots of inconsistences in how it is applied across various settings windows etc....usual MS mish-mash.

Everything I've tested seems to work as before but unless you MUST have rounded edges on your windows I can see zero reason to upgrade at this point (apart from to take a look ) ....and lots of reasons not to upgrade on your main DAW pc.

YMMV

wow.. lots of brave souls on here. I would not touch Windows 11 for at least 1 or 2 years.

ARCHIVE APPS (turned on by default)

wow - that's sound like an exciting feature - russian roulette for you apps.

For me, the reason for keeping updating Windows is that things get ever easier and fewer problems... many years of updates being complex, scrabbling around for floppies with drivers, registry hacking ... I like everything getting better, simpler, etc with passing years. Rounded corners are neither here nor there ...

Where is that quote from?

I copied it verbatim from the setting page for Archive Apps - if you dig around you'll find it somewhere.

I'm guessing it's aimed at apps downloaded from the MS store - a bit like what Apple do with the iPhone. Probably not an issue for most audio users...who knows ?

I'm generally and early adopter and big fan of Windows (and MacOS) but Win11 has left me a bit underwhelmed so far.

I'm struggling to find any real (visible?) improvements to workflow although I am finding quite a few 'oh dear' type things. None of it is show-stopping (first world problems!) but lots of slightly annoying changes for the worse and the usual MS thing of assuming it knows better about what you want on your hard drive and what you want your CPU wasting cycles on.

I'll live with it on a few less critical machines and see what improvement/fixes MS bring out.

For those who are upgrading their audio PCs what is the reason for it...apart from being 'cutting edge' ? Are you seeing any actual improvements ?

I am not thinking in terms of what has been added but rather what has been taken away.
MS has been known to 'throw the baby out with the bathwater' when they get general complaints from who knows who about such and such feature. There have been many reports that this is the case now, and many features are incomplete or just roughed in.
I think it depends on how you use Windows and what you expect. It does seem like Microsoft is trying to take 11 in a new direction.

Lol @ Pictus . This one is better because it goes to 11.

This was added to Windows 10 as well.

AFAIK, this only impacts apps downloaded from the Windows Store or installed via .msix files.

In Windows 11, you can go to System > Storage > Cleanup recommendations and then see what it lists in the "unused apps" section. You can do this even if you have the feature turned off (which I recommend for most of us here).

Pete

That alone is a a reason to switch to win 11 lol :-)

So ... in 1982 Ric Parnell was kicked out of my band and into immortality as exploding drummer "Mick Shrimpton" in This Is Spinal Tap for passing out at too many sold-out gigs from subsisting on a diet of pure cocaine and 12 pieces of chocolate cake a day. We reunited 35 years later in 2017, recording 18 songs together.

He was an awesome studio drummer. Hear him on songs 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 15, 19 and 20 our 80s playlist here:

https://themilkmen.space/spilt-milk-...sics-1980-1985

The most Spinal Tap sounding song on that 2017 playlist is #23 , with #14 a close second:

https://themilkmen.space/songlab-2018

The guy can play anything, he's also on songs 1, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12, 13, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, and 22.

If you want to see what he looked like recording in 2017:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0e7n...annel=LoryKohn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7o0...annel=LoryKohn

That's rather conservative, but whatever works for you. In my experience since Windows 3.1, my process has settled into the following on my primary PC:

1) wait until the first major service update after a new version of Windows

2) PLUS wait until the follow on bug fix

3) always a full backup before applying (and test the rescue process before applying to make sure it's all good)

Maybe that ends up being 1 year, depending on the MSFT updates. But 2 years seems... a lot.

I don't touch anything just released at least a year or two after release. Microsoft in particular has a history of messing up every other releases. Recall the fiasco of Windows 8 and Windows Millennium editions.

It is...

WoW!
Legendary!!