Hello Slutz

My trusted 12-core cMP is showing signs of fatigue and am contemplating options to upgrade

It is setup with Metric Halo ULN-8 3d & 2882 3d converters over Ethernet

Main DAWs : Reaper v6, Logic X, Ableton Live 11

I don’t use PCIe, only USB and Ethernet, and 6 hard drives for now

I am never running out of multi-core cpu (between 30-70%) but getting more and more single core overloads/buffer issues/clicks and pops early on in the production process with new plugins/plugin updates/virtual instruments (freezing before an idea is properly put down doesn’t really work out, whether in early stages of production or mixing)

Looking for any experiences with similar setup and workloads

My session loads are like this

1. Tracking : 24 tracks at 48KHz, no real-time DAW monitoring except a few reverbs/delays (DSP near-zero latency monitoring through Metric Halo) and hardware effects

2. small-medium sized mix sessions mostly, at 48KHz :
- 20-> 80 audio tracks
- a couple of plugs per track
- 8-12 busses
- 8-12 aux
- a couple of hardware inserts

3. production sessions also at 48KHz:
- 8 to 12 virtual instruments (1-2 Diva, 1-2 Repro, 1-2 Serum, 1-2 Kontakt with 3rd party libraries, Geist 2 & few others)
- 24 audio tracks
- up to many inserts and/or aux plugins

Thoughts on current Mac options :

A) not against the nMP, but not sure I need that much power of the 12-16 core models; the entry 8-core is many bucks compared to the iMac for similar performance.
B) iMac 10-core looks nice, but spec’d to my needs (32 GB RAM, 1TB SSD, video card) comes close to iMac Pro territory price wise and don’t know if iMac keeps fully silent (really needed as control room is whisper quiet and finely tuned).
C) iMac Pro is from what I hear whisper quiet, but its technology is not the newest around, not sure it will still be ok in 3-5 years of OS updates, for a price close to nMP
D) Really curious about the M1 Mac Mini, but only Big Sur means many of my still-unported older plugins will not run, leaving my current sessions not compatible.
E) Hackintosh: not crazy about it unless it’s still worth it for Catalina and beyond.

I am more thinking of Mac Mini M1 or iMac for a 1-2 year solution until M1 porting is unified and M2 Macs showing up, still finishing the ongoing work on cMP and migrating slowly to newer system side by side.

Also I could go for a 16-core nMP and be done with it for many years
, but due to the sizeable difference in investment, my modest cpu needs and Apple’s higher end M2 ARM around the corner for significantly less dough...

Any insight appreciated

Best

Nico

The iMac Pro was just discontinued last week and Apple sold out of all the remaining stock they had in like 2 days after the announcement so keep that in mind if you're set on one of those..

Thanks for the heads up Monotremata

Wonder if they are being discounted?

You could wait for a new MacPro rumoured for 2022 (https://www.gearnews.com/new-mac-pro...-32-cpu-cores/)

I have no major issues with my 12-core cMP.
But I should mention that I record at 44.1KHz,
And my cMP is fully upgraded, 3.1 USB ( giving 6 x MIDI channels dedicated for my synths), 5.0 GT/s NVMe boot, 3.46 GHz upgraded CPUs …
If I hit the wall, I freeze the tracks.
I am very careful what virtual instruments/plugs I use.

I gave up trying to get my 5.1 12 core with 64gb ram to take Mojave. I got a nMP and never looked back - excellent computer.

All it needs is the proper Radeon card in it and it should go smooth as silk. Mojave was actually pretty awesome on my 5,1. Might still be using it if it weren't for Logic.

Hey Dhancaster, thank you kindly for your time and the very informative reply earlier, glad am not the only one in the same boat, and lucky you did some pretty thorough investigating on the matter !

Agreed on absolutely all points, even the Vulcan brain wrt iMac Pro. In my experience end-of-cycle/obsolete products are not too high up the priority at Apple’s should a hardware failure arise, and if fixable will still be costly (look at retina screen repairs for 2013-2015 MBP’s still more or less same dough than buying a used one in good condition)
As they made user-repairs near to impossible and illegal surely raises red flags here.

I will need a new system in a few months I guess, but I have to factor in to what extent the recording/tracking business will pick up again as to not dig a hole with a big nMP that might take some time to absorb.

I never used the Apple financing options for businesses, neither for leasing, don’t know if anybody here has gone that way and if it is worth it? If yes, might be a doable way to spring for a beastly nMP machine.

From the experience you shared, indeed getting a Mac Mini M1 right now for modest processing needs for tracking/mixing/mastering in Reaper and Logic is a sensible solution then, to ensure continuity of services should the cMP choke up completely or not run certain plugs at all after a soon coming update that will up the minimum requirements out of my range (am on High Sierra, it is super stable, but almost obsolete, have no intention to even try installing a metal-compatible graphics card for just Mojave)

Good to know about Ableton Live not being happy on M1, as it is our most used DAW for production/pre-production; on the beta program of Ableton 11 however, version 11.0b24 says in the release notes M1 users should see some performance improvements, might be useful.

Another possible intermediary option : for portable use (have a 2014 15” rMBP i7-2.6GHz/16Gb RAM/1Tb SSD with Mojave for writing/sketching/beats&sequence programming) get a MacBook Air or Pro M1 instead of the Mac Mini, like that if I go for a nMP later or other future Apple desktop offering, I still have a portable replacement that won’t double up with a Mini + nMP

Question is : are the Air & Pro M1’s silent?

Best

Nico

Live 11 runs fine for me so far on M1. No issues.

I have a GTX970 that is very snappy in my 5,1.

The final High Sierra update won't take on my computer, it says it updates but doesn't, so a lot of software is locked out for me.

So, made more sense to buy the professional tool where I don't have to compromise. If I were doing this as a hobby it would be different.

I put an RX570 in my 5.1 12 core and run Mojave, that works fine / probably where I will keep it.

IMHO the best options are, the following order:

1. Wait for the next m1 machines
2. Buy a used Intel mac
3. Buy a m1

For my money, I would not feel comfortable in investing in a new expensive Intel Mac now knowing it’s essentially obsolete in Apple’s eyes. Not that they are bad systems, but I expect minimal hardware support from Apple and truncated future software support from Mac OS and third party developers as they transition.

Here's some information in the first link about my experience updating my 5,1 from High Sierra to Catalina. During that effort, I felt like I fell out of the Ugly Tree, and hit every branch on the way down! The second link has a dramatic appropriation of the drama unfolding for Intel-or-M1 decision-makers.

Upgrade to 'metal' compatible graphic cards

Am I stark raving mad to buy a fully loaded i9 iMac now?

Yeah same here, maxed out 12-core 3,46 Ghz Xeons and if you know how Logic handles the cores (livetracks, busses, instruments, I/O ..) it's still quite the beast running a big studio, 4 displays, RME cards, still works with my powercore setup - I'm glad i didn't go for the last iteration of the i9 iMac, which i thought about doing. It's quite easy and cheap to get parts for the 5,1 if something breaks, or even a second machine, just in case.

When an ARM mac or ARM mac pro arrives, i'll think about switching systems again, i'd not invest in an Intel mac right now.

This was my original thinking, but watching compatibility disappear in High Sierra leads me to believe that Mojave isn't far behind.

Also having a 1,1 Mac Pro stuck in Snow Leopard is not something I'd like to be forced into again.

Thank you Dhancaster for your experience with the Air M1 and the OWC dock referral

Silent and cool operation is an impressive report

It is shaping up to be the most logical temporary upgrade for my immediate needs

Does anyone have experience with Apple’s financing services wrt buying or leasing?

Best

Nico

Thumbs up for going through that Catalina on cMP route, impressive, I just couldn’t do that for my own sanity

M1, although still in its infant shoes, looks by the day like a reliable switch, at the cost of some incompatibilities with some plugins and some hardware

Every time Ive gotten a new Mac or wanted to get one Ive applied and got shot down. Even tried last year when I got my Mini. They turned me down but got approved for an Adorama credit card 2 minutes later and bought it there instead. Go figure, I could never get a loan for a computer but they just gave me an Apple Card I can buy a Mac Pro with.

Absolutely Cowudders, it is still a beast and very stable, it’s my third Mac Pro and the best machine I’ve had until now.

Like Dhancaster said however, for new/updated virtual instruments (and some audio processors) that dig deep in the cpu bucket, it is easy to get to a point early in production stage, even with balancing the cores where you can hit a ceiling really fast and that’s a real workflow killer for me.

Ha that’s a good one

Apple Card is not yet implemented in Europe, for now you have to go to Apple 3rd party sellers for Business, which then apply local credit card company loans, but the interests are quite high

I’ll try to get in touch with Apple Business in Belgium to see what the options are

Logic 10.5.1 is the last version supported on Mojave, while on High Sierra is 10.4.8

My Catalina nMP is on 10.6.1 so Mojave is already on the way out...

The iMac Pro 10-core is back at the Apple store for $4999. Of course close out price is not in Apple’s vocabulary.

There are iMac Pros available in the Apple refurbished store for some pretty decent savings.

I’d be really curious to find out how many of the “new” Mac Pros were sold. I know there are businesses that have and will spend that money, but the timing of these I thought was really poor.

I applied and bought my first Mac Pro direct from
Apple about 11 years ago. I wouldn’t say at the time I had exceptional credit and I got no interest for a year or two...I don’t remember...I paid it off pretty quickly and it was done. After never using it after that I think they closed my account. I am confident I would have no trouble getting approved today if I needed to.

there's rumored to be an apple event march 23rd. may just be iOS related announcements but who knows.. could be more.

regardless.. i wouldn't buy an intel mac at the moment. the Mx or whatever it'll be is just around the corner really. make your existing set up last as long as you can.

some people can't wait and have the need and $$$$ for a new intel mac pro to solve their problems. my 2010 cheesegrater is running mojave fine and getting it done for me for mixing etc.. i don't do a lot of high track counts so no problems really.

i plan to use it as long as i can see what apple does for desktop systems over the next couple years. i have a 2018 MBP i9 6 core to bridge the gap if needed.

Glad I discovered this thread coz I'm in the same boat. I am on High Sierra and don't see why I should upgrade the OS.

Currently my main rig contains 2x maxed out MacPro5.1 connected via ethernet and Audiogridder. Additionally:
- a couple of UAD cards,
- a couple of old TC Powercores (you can find some pretty cheap now. the FW PoCos work with high sierra!)
- analog hardware processing (bus compressors & eqs). Also putting more sauce on the source when recording.
- Reaper (handles plugins much better then Logic)

All this allows me to
- offload the CPU processing and
- wait a bit longer for more serious macs with M1 (or how they gonna call it)

I also think it would be a waste of money to buy now a newer pricy intel mac, if you already have a MP5.1.
Maybe buying the cheapest imac m1 for some single core processing is not a bad idea, if MP5.1 can't run your beloved synth vst or something.

Mojave on the 5,1 is sort of what Snow Leopard was to me - totally bulletproof and invisible. A really good OS. It took a long time for me to upgrade from 10.6.8 (next stop was 10.9, also good and now finally 10.14) because it just worked so well.

I tried Audiogridder, but got lots of dropouts, maybe it was a firewall-setting, will check it out again soon - does it run perfectly on your system?

Also my 2 FW powercores work flawlessly on Mojave everyday. Mojave is the last system supporting 32 bit plug-ins. I'm planning to dedicate one of my macs as a Powercore-Audiogridder server, so i can use some of these great plug-ins with some new upcoming ARM mac.

It runs very good. Occasionally things happen, like when one of the machines goes into the sleep mode, the slave doesn't find the server. Of course you can't record with it. Also cpu hungry VST are not suitable. But for mixing it really helps. I offloaded my entire mixbus chain with some acustica plugins to another computer.

Keep in mind that you can even run plugins via Audiogridder OUTSIDE your daw on the same machine a bit.

In general, the shortest the path, the better the performance: The best performance is, if both Macs are connected via fiber cable. There is guy in the Audiogridder thread who has done that. Maybe I'll add also 2 PCIe fiber cards. You really have to experiment with the settings everywhere. My Macs are connected via Gigabit switch. AG Buffer is set to the max. I gave up Logic. Reaper is a properly coded DAW, which I realized after sort of 15 years... And it works in such a setup much more reliable...

I was able to update with a 7950 Radeon sapphire gpu. I now have a 580 in there which I love except I can’t boot older os.

Im debating adding a thunderbolt card to my 5,1 specifically to pick up a Mac mini (probably 2014) to run audio gridder and acustica plugins. I’m concerned because audio gridder does not work well with pt. Maybe I could use Vienna ensemble. Your thoughts?

Interesting idea: mp5.1<->tb<->mac mini!
maybe this is even better for me, coz I have some uad tb I currently cant use due to the missing tb. With two tb cards (2X tb inputs) I could connect both: uad tb and mac5.1 for AG.

If you’re buying a machine for Acustica via AUdiogridder only, I’d consider a win10 machine instead of mini 2014.
I got no experience with pt and vienna. Have you tried the newest AG? came out yesterday i think. Should work better with pt now. if you like acustica, switch to Reaper