Anyone else wishing that Microsoft's native MIDI driver would allow for MIDI ports to be shared by multiple applications? It is such a significant limitation if you want to use a DAW and patch editor at the same time.

There are work-arounds like loopmidi, but they can be a hassle to set up and use within the applications. Would be nice if Windows MIDI drivers would allow for it. Until then I am stuck using Win 8.1 since that is the latest version my MIDI interfaces have working drivers.

Also, some synths that have editors provided by the manufacturer force you to use their USB midi ports, so loopmidi is not an option. The editor locks the ports and the DAW cannot use them.

It obviously doesn't help you right now, but it might be interesting to know that Windows 10 has the provisions built-in to support multi-client access to MIDI devices, see extract below. The full link has a lot interesting info!

MIDI Enhancements in Windows 10 [from Sep 21, 2016)]
MIDI Enhancements in Windows 10 - Windows Developer BlogWindows Developer Blog

Extract:

"In Windows 10 RTM last year we introduced a new MIDI API, accessible to UWP Apps on virtually all Windows 10 devices, which provides a modern way to access these MIDI interfaces. We created this API to provide a high performance and flexible base upon which we can build support for new MIDI interfaces.

/.../

One great feature of the new API is that it is multi-client. As long as all apps with the port open are using the Windows 10 UWP MIDI API and not the older Win32 MME or DirectMusic APIs, they can share the same device. This is something the older APIs don’t handle without custom drivers and was a common request from our partners and customers.

Finally, it’s important to note that the Windows 10 UWP MIDI API works with all recognized MIDI devices, whether they use class drivers or their own custom drivers. This includes many software-based MIDI utilities implemented as drivers on Windows 10."

Edit: That link also provides some cool info that Microsoft worked early on with Cakewalk on the Windows 10 UWP MIDI API and a wrapper for it, enabling DAWs like Sonar to implement those features faster. Cakewalk really was/is ahead in the Windows game!

Thank you for all of the info. Really appreciate it.

Its a shame that MS doesn't make the native midi driver multi-client, as so many USB devices use them. If I understand correctly, their approach requires custom drivers to be made to allow the multi-client capability. That means the manufacturers have to then go through the expensive process of creating custom drivers and go through the driver certification process. Those manufacturers will then need to have their drivers re-certified (at a cost) with each new version of Windows. So, it is the same situation that I am facing now, Edirol decided not to make drivers for Windows 10 for their older midi devices, so now they are useless.

It sure seems that MS is being greedy and forcing manufacturers to go through the costly driver certification process rather than just providing multi-client midi drivers as Apple has done.

Glad you found it useful!

I just re-read some of that Microsoft blog entry: you do not have to write new drivers, but you have to implement the new UWP MIDI API in your Win32 application. Microsoft is trying to make it even easier for developers with a so-called "Win32 wrapper", which is how Cakewalk did it.

Summarizing the important points:

• "The new API is /.../ multi-client. As long as all apps with the port open are using the Windows 10 UWP MIDI API and not the older Win32 MME or DirectMusic APIs, they can share the same device."
• "The Windows 10 UWP MIDI API works with all recognized MIDI devices, whether they use class drivers or their own custom drivers."
• Most Windows desktop DAWs use the old Win32 APIs
• Microsoft wrote a Win32 wrapper for the UWP MIDI API to make it even faster for developers to implement the new UWP MIDI API for Win32 applications (like Cakewalk did for Sonar)

Interesting... I wonder if VST editors running in Sonar can use the midi ports at the same time.

I downgraded Windows 10 to 8.1 on my new music computer so that I can still use my 3 Edirol midi interfaces. Now I am getting warnings that the 7th generation processors are not supported on windows 8.1 and that I can no longer do Windows Updates. There appears to be a hack to get around it. It would be so much easier to sell the hardware synths and use soft synths.

When you're using a DAW and a patch editor, do you have to quit each application when the other one is in use?

I feel your pain with regards to missing drivers to old MIDI interfaces! I had to sell my old and perfectly working Emagic AMT8 when Apple bought Emagic and dumped Windows support, so that no drivers would appear for Windows 7 x64.

I bought an ESI M8U XL, which is class compliant, so no drivers are needed even for Windows (XP to 10 supported). Although ESI does provide a driver for Windows if you want multiclient operation.

Wow, I had not heard that Microsoft won't support a 7th generation Intel Core CPUs in Windows 8.1. It seems they say "your PC is designed for the latest version of Windows". :P

I'm kind of the other way - I'm still using a 1st generation Core (Bloomfield) on Windows 7! No signs of removed support, yet...

Did Microsoft drop this? As far as I can tell none of this has been rolled out yet.

It's out there, but from what I've read it's quite buggy. The only DAW that I know of that implemented it is Cakewalk and you can read the users complaining about it:
http://forum.cakewalk.com/Why-use-MM...-m3582841.aspx


I echo the sentiment from OP, multi-client MIDI should work natively in Windows. Same for multi-client low latency audio.
MacOS has had this for ages.


Pro tip: if your USB MIDI keyboard doesn't come with a multi-client driver for Windows 10 you can check if a driver for an older Windows version exists. Sometimes those work just fine in 10 too.
Alternatively, if your keyboard has the regular old MIDI out port, you can plug it into your soundcard or some other MIDI interface that does support multi-client MIDI. I know the Behringers UMC-HD do, for example.

Pete from Microsoft just replied on the W10 thread and said it's still being worked on, but doesn't know when it'll be ready because Microsoft is busy developing W11. We really are a small crowd...

Alas, it's almost been 2 years and generic MIDI is still single-client. This remains top of my Windows features wish list.

I agree. I'm a Windows guy at heart, but Apple have definitely made their OS a lot more media/creator-friendly in many aspects: built-in support for aggregate audio devices, class compliant multi client MIDI driver and out-of-the-box MIDI loopback support are just a few examples of great MacOS features.

I just got a Moog Subsequent, and to use USB midi: Mac users can just plug it in; Windows people need to install a custom USB MIDI driver.

Microsoft, please prioritize us music creators a little bit more! It's tough love for us sometimes! (Ok, to be fair, we didn't have to update all our music creation software recently and spend hours and hours on Gearspace complaining about lack of support. )

It's comical that Microsoft can't get their act together on multi-client midi... Last I heard from Pete he was suggesting they would be available summer 2023.

I dunno but the last I heard from Pete was recently and he said they were working on it full-steam now and it would be rolled out some time in 2024. We have to remember we are a relatively small bunch and Microsoft allocates resources accordingly—sadly often times they seem to devote extra resources to breaking stuff, features of questionable usefulness and even lost causes...

Don't hold your breath for 2024. I believe it was in 2018 when Pete said it was only months away.

I got tired of waiting, and switched to Mac.

For the love of god, when????

LOL your frustration rings home

If I had a dollar for every time I've considered switching to Mac, I could buy a Mac today.

Later this year, apparently!



Check Pete's separate thread about this:

Windows MIDI Services Info

I did not say that as far as I recall. My teenager kids insist I'm going senile, though, so who knows.

We had multi-client MIDI for WinRT MIDI in Windows 10, but it was pulled very early on (around 2015, IIRC) because it had a huge negative performance impact.

We've completely rewritten the MIDI stack over the past year+ and it will support multi-client when it ships. In the developer previews we have, it supports multiclient, has built-in app-to-app MIDI, built in loopback, full MIDI 2.0 support, and more. At NAMM, I showed a Cubase prototype and Bremmers MultitrackStudio using the new API.

Gary on the audio team is right now in the process of rewiring the old API to point to the new service so existing applications get multiclient and a few of the new features (they don't get MIDI 2.0 unless they use the new API directly because the data format is different). This is the part we have to make sure we get absolutely 100% right before we ship because it's all about backwards compatibility.

I've also been working on reimplementing the bluetooth MIDI 1.0 transport in the new architecture. That may not ship in v1, but will be a fast follow-on.

Also, it's all open source.

https://aka.ms/midi

It's taken a while because we couldn't extend the old APIs to do what we needed to do, so we redid everything from the driver through to the service and API.

We recorded a podcast yesterday with TAFKAT (the DAWBench radio show) where Gary explains why we had to rewrite everything. It's pretty technical, but good info.

Pete

That's sick If it wasn't for you, Pete, none of this would ever get done. Thank you!

Dear Sir, ETA please? Thank you.

Edit: I see it's "later this year". Just getting a bit impatient after many a midi reset.

Before/near end of year for the latest supported Windows 11. Shortly after (depends on our servicing windows) for other supported Windows 11 versions and latest supported Windows 10 version.

We finished the API review a week ago, and I've made most of the required changes. So the SDK for apps using the new API directly will be pretty solid soon.

The part of this that is taking the most work/time is the backwards compatibility work for the older APIs and all the testing that goes with it and with a myriad of older MIDI 1.0 devices out there. It'll be no good if we release this and either current apps or devices break.

Pete

Thank you!

Can someone tell me which midi drivers are tighter-better-with less midi jitter in cubase? Direct music, windows midi or winRT?

Answered where you had cross-posted the question
Windows MIDI Services Info