I've only tried using Lustrious Plates a couple times. It's part of my Slate Digital all access pass.

Lustrious Plates seems nice but I woudn't trade my Seventh Heaven for it.

I'm updating to an M4 Mac Mini with 24 GB RAM and a 1 TB SSD. About the only hack I'll try re Mac is turn my iMac into a display.

I fully support the Open Core community. It is just not for me. I used to be able to run my own network with Windows, Mac and Linux all getting along. Brain injury ended that.

The only reason I still have 7HP is for the discount on some future reverb. It’s long since been deleted from my computer. It’s great that Liquidsonics has so many different reverbs using different technologies - something for everyone.

If you're looking for the holy grail of reverb, you owe it to yourself to check out the new Quantec which comes with Logic Pro 11. It is as close to perfection as I've heard or used.

I have Lexicon, TC and Eventide hardware and software plus a bunch of very nice plugins but the Quantec is in a different league. It is transparent without sounding cold, artificial or metallic. You can create "invisible" space that wraps itself around the source in the most pleasant and musical way. The Yardstick algorithm is particularly refined.

Even if you generally don't use Mac, you could get something like a 2018 Mini with macOS Sequoia for a couple of hundred bucks. You might want to attach a budget interface to it with digital i/o and treat it like an outboard FX unit.

Have you compared it to the Relab Quantec or Savant Quantec plugins? Both of those are relatively new to the plugin market, and highly regarded. Hard to imagine the Logic team is out classing ReLab on quantec emulations, but I've yet to hear a comparison...

I believe the Quantec in Logic is an officially-licensed direct port of the original Quantec code. Unlike the Relab and Savant versions, the Logic Quantec is not an emulation.

They are - they are black box attempts to try to emulate what the Quantec is doing, as they don't have access to the actual code.

Apple licensed/bought the *actual* Quantec IP, so the exact actual algorithms are running in Logic's plugin - you can't get closer than the actual IP running directly, which is why it allegedly nulls with the highest end Quantec hardware.

and yet the UAD Lexicon 224 runs "the actual code" and is.....not the same.

Even with the original code, it's still an emulation of the hardware. I get it, it's 100% digital, so it should be identical -- and likely is.

But I've heard this before re: "it must be the best because it's the original code" and it seems *a bit* more complicated than that, in the plugin world...

I think people will read "identical licensed code" and it will immediately bias their assessment of the logic plugin vs Relab and Savant, it's inevitable. A blind test between all three would be cool.
It's a bit telling that I asked if anyone has compared the three, and instead of anyone posting that they've compared, they simply assert there's no need because Logic's is "identical" and the conversation is apparently effectively over. Huh.

Regardless, I'm less interested in which is "identical" to the original hardware (which I've never heard, anyway) and more interested in which sounds best for various modern day DAW-based reverb applications.

Yes, I don't believe UA model the old convertor stages in the 224 [Edit: yes they do, apparently] , so the effect will be a little different than comparing to the hardware, even if the algorithms generating the reverb are the same.

Edit2: UA claim they use the actual algorithms, and control processor code, so they recovered and reversed some of the code, and the docs of the algorithms, but it doesn’t run all of the exact code, the original of which was lost.

This is true for the QRS mode in the Logic plugin too - the old 80s I/O stages are not modelled I believe, so the algorithms are as clean as they can be without the degradation or colour brought on by the 80s tech of the time.

The later Yardsticks had much more modern I/O and were essentially clean enough, which is why the Yardstick nulls with the hardware, as reported by Matt from Liquidsonics who compared them, and knows a thing or two about reverb...

I'm not particularly reporting any bias, I'm just stating to the best of my ability the facts and evidence we know so far. I haven't stated a particular preference yet, nor am I in a position to compare to the original hardware, so I haven't commented on that.

I did have a brief comparison across plugins, and they all sound different (as to be expected) but that doesn't really tell us anything other than if they all did a 100% perfect job at emulating what the original hardware is doing, they *should* sound the same. They don't, albeit pretty close in many areas.

The Logic one is more convenient for me, has a better interface, and sounds great, so that's become my preference, but then I'm a Logic user. It also has freeze which I like a lot and the implementation of this is way better than the other plugins (well, Relab doesn't have freeze at all yet).

Indeed, and that at least is an easily attainable goal with a little bit of demo time. So give them and try and tell us what you think and what your preferences are...

You stated it was “hard to believe” the Logic team “is outclassing Relab on Quantec emulations”. Whose opinion would you value?

Vito, we read that you don't like 7HP the first 345 times, it is okay to let it go

I do like it along with my hardware M7, my friend with two M7s likes it, and so many other guys like it as well.

But, we don't talk about it out loud all the time.

I do have two hardware Yardsticks - 2402 and 2496. I also do have Savant and Relab emulations, as well as newest Logic one.

From my personal experience, formed while working in real world on real mixes the least used one is Savant version. The most used was a Relab one with my own presets, especially when I need to work ITB only and don't have spare time. However if it is not a time pressing issue I'd use either both hardware boxes or one of them, depending on what I need - Simple mode or Complex - denser mode, etc.

As about Logic, I really liked the interface and the sound. I use Mac mostly for project transferring so I didn't compare hardware and Logic version directly yet.

"which is why the Yardstick nulls with the hardware, as reported by Matt from Liquidsonics who compared them, and knows a thing or two about reverb..."

He does know these things, doesn't he ?

He’s in my opinion the best in the business re: software reverbs.

I was interested in people sharing their thoughts who were actually comparing the various Quantec plugins. Both in terms of "accuracy to the original" (which is nearly impossible to do, since nobody here probably even HAS an original to begin with" but just as much in regards to "what sounds best to me, for whatever I'm working on in my DAW"...

... that's it. This was never meant to be a fight or a pissing match or anything other than, "huh, this was emulated before Logic did it, I wonder how they compare?". I only said "out classing" because ReLab is a highly regarded developer in this field, I meant nothing more by it.

I do think it's silly, though, to assume that no comparison is worth making because Logic has the "original code" as already stated. But Mu:Zines posted a helpful and constructive reply to that, so we're good there.

re: 'original code': They still have to successfully implement that into new plugin software and I'm sure there are various literal differences between that code running in an 80s hardware box and a 2024 logic plugin. but I'm no expert here, just wondering aloud.

re: opinions, I'm interested in everyone's opinion who is actually using the plugins discussed and deciding if they sound good and work well in the context of mixing their own music, whatever that may be. I was frustrated because the first few replies suggested that any such evaluation was irrelevant because Logic has the actual code, therefore conversation over.

Cool. Either do I. But I do read about how awesome it is. I sometimes (surely only 109 times by now, not 345! Ha) point out one or more reasons that isn’t true, at least for me.

In a way I’m thankful for it existing, as that also took the hardware out of any consideration at all for me.

Did someone say no comparison is worth making? In fact, you and a I have absolutely zero difference in opinion as far as I can see. As someone who is well acquainted with hardware and software, I have truly been disappointed not even the mighty Eventide can seem to make its H3000 plugin iterations sound like my H3000 D/SE. Those converters and circuitry must be sprinkled with magic dust.

I own or have tried all the Quantecs (bought Relab before Logic got the Quantec algos) and the Logic uses so little CPU as to be classed negligible.

Relab uses a ton.

Whatever Apple did, it’s super efficient.

For that reason alone I use the Logic one.

On my windows box I obviously can’t use Logic so I use Relab but it crushes my CPU… (and no, my Mac is an i9, not the latest M4 Max monsterbox, so Logic’s Quantec is efficient even on Intel CPUs).

Cool! I didn't know you are counting, my deep respect

If you don't like hardware as well, then, well, I can't say anything else. I love my Bricasti and I'm grateful for having 7HP

Agreed but there’s a time and place for crazy non-transparent reverbs too

Tai Chi for that most probably.

We at least have @ temnov , and Matt from LS who have indeed access to the hardware... and those are people I trust to give reasonably informed opinions.

Yep, I get that, but I don't think anyone was actually saying that though. I think though we have to concede that there is some advantage to running the actual algorithms from the code, schematics and design docs, than trying to guess what the actual code might be doing by analysing the output of the hardware as emulations have to do - assuming the Logic team did a good job on that, of course.

(Evidence so far suggests that they did, from what I've seen.)



I'm kind of amazed at how CPU light it is, to be honest. Of course, we've had a long history of high-end hardware reverb companies saying that it would be impossible to emulate their reverbs on a general purpose computer (see Lexicon, Quantec, Bricasti etc). I remember when the Lexicon PCM plugins were released (at hardware prices, no less), expecting them to destroy a typical PC and thinking wow, these are CPU light even in 2010... it kinda debunked that long-standing belief at the time, at least for me.

I'm also really heartened to see the respectful way Apple did this too - when have you seen Apple buy up a company or IP to integrate it in their products and include not only a dedication to the brilliance of the original designer in the manual and the update notes, but to also add in a window in the Apple app about him and the IP they're using, with historical pictures and all?

It kinda feels way more personal than I'd expect from Apple - I'm wondering if people on the Logic team (the core original team also being German of course) had some personal connections to Quantec... I might reach out on some of my connections to see whether that might be the case...

Very interesting observations. Basically I'm sitting here trying to decide if I want to install Logic on my system just to check this out I'm a mac guy, but I use Ableton, and seem to add + remove Logic from my system(s) every other year or so, ha. But I'm also a reverb junkie and this one has me intrigued (I don't own the ReLab nor the Savant, but I do own Logic!), thanks for sharing your detailed thoughts on it!

Logic's Quantec is indeed impressive... Whether or not it stacks up to the hardware or other emulations, it's a fantastic-sounding reverb with tons of beautiful options.

I just installed Seventh Heaven Pro today as well, and so far I love it as much as I hoped I would. Between these two and my beloved Valhalla verbs, which I've leaned on for years, I'm buried in luxurious choices.

If it’s been a bit since you’ve tried Logic, I think you should see what they’re doing. I went a long time not using it and I gave it another go over the past few weeks and I am impressed.

If I knew someone that had the hardware and I could try it in person I would!

Agreed!

Logic's Quantec has basically replaced all of my "clean" reverbs, hardware and software.

My general frustration with reverb has always been what I would describe as ringing resonances which, depending on the frequencies involved, can build up and add a layer of incontrollable and very distracting "weirdness". All reverbs I've tried do this to a greater or lesser degree... The Lexicon PCM does it the least which is why it has been my favorite so far.

Logic's Quantec, on the other hand, just adds space without adding unwanted resonances. It is extraordinarily consistent across the entire frequency range which helps when playing piano libraries, for example. It also keeps the original sound in the foreground, the soundstage does not change.

Logic's Quantec sounds so different and "clean" that, at first, I wasn't sure if I was going to like it. However, I now appreciate the fact that I can dial it in and forget about it.... No endless tweaking of EQ or decay settings, it just works.

Hi Krapoot, I'm just curious, are you using the Logic Quantec as an insert or as a send/return aux routing in Logic ? which approach is leading to the results you're describing above?
cheers!

Have you tried Cinematic Rooms?
I was just doing a mix and used the Bright Hall preset
Then I pulled up Savant Concert Hall -A preset.
They are similar enough. The amount of glue and liveliness that I heard in CR was quite obvious and objectively better. Very very nice.
One day I’ll track down a logic user and get to hear this new Quantec code.

I love Cinematic Rooms!

You have to try Illusion, it is such an overlooked reverb, but it is pretty good.

Hi mholloway, I currently use the Quantec as a return signal from another computer since my main machine still runs macOS Monterey so I can't install Logic 11 there. (I have several Macs networked via ADAT and MIDI over LAN). I guess I'll upgrade to Sequoia soon as it appears to be quite stable.

The Mac I upgraded already to Sequoia/Logic 11 is a humble 2018 i7 Mini. CPU usage of the Quantec is indeed negligible which is impressive considering EW Spaces II, for example, can bring the same machine to its knees.

With the Quantec I literally use the Yardstick default preset. All I did was reduce Reverb Time to 1.80s and increase Reverb Delay to 20 ms. I find this setting works on just about everything. When I get a moment I'll spend some time exploring the options but I get a feeling the basic character won't change much.

The other day a friend of mine who is not a musician but a music lover walked into the studio while I was playing Ivory 3 with just a touch of Quantec added to it, not to create big cathedral reverberation but merely fill in the gaps between the notes. The first thing he said was "You've got a very nice piano sound there" which I found interesting. I tend to think, if you can impress non-musicians with whatever it is you're doing, you might be on to something.

in my experience, reverbs that ring usually have a modulation being applied to the tail that is causing the ringing to happen.