Hi all. Long time lurker of this sub-forum. I've learned some incredibly useful stuff here over the last couple years as I have become more and more interested in mastering. My background/day job for the last 5+ years has primarily been as an engineer/mixer, but I am feeling more and more aligned with making small, but deliberate moves on the stereo mix, finding ways to achieve competitive loudness that doesn't harm the mix, and focusing solely on deep critical listening in my space. I've been doing some mastering work here and there for clients and friends, but I'm feeling like I'd like to give it an honest go on making it the primary service I offer.

All of my mastering work has been in the box with the usual suspects, but I vastly prefer the ergonomics that a small one-bay mastering style desk with a few nice pieces in front of me could allow me to work with less emphasis on the screen. I have the option to either pick up a couple of used Maselec pieces (thinking of an MEA2 + MLA2 combo) or a few more esoteric/fun/slightly colored pieces instead (RND MBT, Great River MAQ-2NV, Terry Audio SEQ). I use a Black-Lion modded Apollo X series unit at the moment that sounds vastly more relaxed/transparent than the stock Apollo units, but I am considering a dedicated pitch/catch convertor as well, such as the newer Lynx Hilo 2 for the analog chain and feeding my monitors.

If you were starting from scratch, and wanted to invest in a couple of hardware pieces to get going, would you go the Maselec route, or opt for pieces that allow for more creative/coloring options as needed? Most of my clients are all ITB mixers, so a part of me is intrigued by having a bit more analog "vibe" on tap to add to projects that are missing it, but I also feel like Maselec is kind of the gold standard, and would require me to make moves that are more in line with a "do no harm" approach, instead of my love of hardware on a 2bus which seems like an extension of my mixer-brain.

Any advice is appreciated!

of all the analog outboard i had used in earlier years, i liked gear from crane song, focusrite, grace design, millennia media, summit audio and tube-tech best but i've long switched to digital outboard...

get whatever you think you will enjoy a lot (and which fits your budget)!

+1 for Crane Song. I have the IBIS, STC-8, HEDD Q and Solaris - all top-shelf.

You might also look at Hendyamps. Chris has some cool gear and The Oven (which I also have) is a great piece of hardware. Also, the Michaelangelo is quite popular.

budget?

First I’d tackle decent full range monitoring and treating/building my room. Then I’d look at converters- no use having nice outboard if the capture is crap. Only then would I look at analog color pieces or processors that don’t yet exist itb.

Someone needs to invent a screen-less midi controller that can be mapped to ANY plugin. That would change everything for me.

Totally with you on this. I've been using a Novation Nocturn for 10 years for this purpose. The concept and form factor had so much potential I can't understand why Novation abandoned it or why no one else has developed this concept further.

Well, you'll see once you try it, but using a mouse and scroll wheel is way faster and a lot less stressful. Plus, the scroll wheel is stepped, so every piece of gear becomes a mastering version for free! lol.

In the end, it’s really just a matter of muscle memory—if you work on it every day and build up that muscle memory, using a mouse shouldn’t be an issue at all.

If you're not heavily leaning on surgical, screen-based, digital tools, the guys and gals that are will be running rings around you, mastering-wise.

IMO.

You might feel happier with your rack of analog gear, just like someone might prefer the experience of a vintage sports car, but be under no illusions about where the performance and cutting edge are.

Sure you can mix up both approaches, but your comment about less emphasis on the screen sets my alarm bells ringing, in terms of modern, commercial mastering.

You could also choose to approach it with the mindset that you're in control, and you'll control the digital gear and screen, and not let them control you!

Plugins have so many different kinds of layouts, how would you create a hardware surface to suit every plugin?

If you accept that the control surface layout won't map to you plugin, there's nothing to stop you hacking together your own control surface.

There are even modular MIDI control surfaces, for example:
https://intech.studio/discover/

I see the main problem as twofold: firstly, the DAWs that are strongest for audio editing and mastering are weakest for MIDI (Sequoia, Pyramix, Wavelavb etc).

And secondly, you need your controller to automatically map to a plugin when you instantiate it or open a different instance. And then how do you deal with the knobs not matching the plugin settings? Ok, so now you're gonna start dreaming about motorized pots and knobs. Or continuous knobs with a ring of LEDs. But now you're back into heavy visual feedback, which is what you were trying to avoid!

TBH i prefer to just accept that the best way to work with plugins is with the good ol' fashioned mouse, tablet and keyboard. It's mind over matter, as i intimated in my earlier post!

Thanks for the link I.R. Baboon.

This is the thing. Novation's Automap software actually handled this really elegantly. It automatically maps to a plugin's parameters and you can modify the mapping in whatever way makes sense to you. It has continuous knobs with LED rings that instantly jump to a plugin's state when it's opened or when you switch between different plugins. I don't even look at the control surface, I just reach out and grab a knob and see the visual feedback on the plugin's GUI (or close my eyes and listen to the effect). Easy.

It's as close to using my hardware as I can imagine getting ITB.

Nah, I just prefer knobs.

I get it!

My problem with control knobs is in a sense it complicates things by introducing an extra thing that isn't strictly necessary.

And how does it deal with changes of 0.2 or 0.3dB?
I'm guessing that isn't possible to represent on the LEDs, right?

It’s not a muscle memory thing for me. It’s that I listen differently with no / limited visual feedback. And that I hate maintaining a mouse position over a bypass button while not looking, ymmv. I suspect older generations of engineers may feel similarly.

… and yes I use digital eqs everyday, imho there’s room (and a market) for tactile development.

Mouse positioning and clicking can easily be turned into a shortcut with just one keystroke using AHK or similar tools, so you don’t even need to look at the screen nor touching a mouse for bypassing. I always do this even without thinking (muscle memory). Honestly, I think you’re just not using the computer to its full potential.

In terms of visual feedback, you can achieve the same thing by operating with just your right hand without even looking at the screen. And in terms of not having to move your head at all, the computer is clearly more advantageous. But if you still think hardware is easier to operate, then, in the end, it’s really just a matter of muscle memory, I believe.

I spent some time mastering in the box, results were good enough.

I spent some time mastering on hardware, results were good enough.

Now the new studio will have the best of both worlds! I love the surgical precision of ITB and I love the instinctive vibe of outboard.

What I will say is most of the Hardware outboard will be colourful and the tools in the box, accurate.

Currently selecting hardware pieces. Usual suspects.

I wouldn't know what values the LEDs show cos I'm not looking at them, I get my feedback from the plugin. So this is not an issue for me.

But we all get to work in whatever way suits us, right? The Nocturn helps me work faster and more intuitively. I promise I won't try to make you use one

PLEASE DON'T TAKE OFFENSE

This is just an opinion - so no worries to disregard

Why Hardware Only?
Plugins used to get 80 percent close, then 90 percent close, now some say 95 percent close...

Weiss is a direct port of the code of the hardware to the plugin...

Use an AB Tool First - and see if you can hear the difference!!!

Can you choose the hardware version with certainty 80 percent of the time? (or more)

So many benefits to plugins IMHO
• instant recall of sessions (huge time saver as all settings are saved)
• expense - use for top line computer - sound system and room treatment
• etc...

I want to see you happy and live your dream! If it is hardware then so be it! Best Wishes to you - Mike

If "do no harm" is your ethos, you will stay in the box 99% of the time, even if you have the hardware (Ask someone who knows).

Focus on getting your room and monitoring dialed, deep listening and learning your digital tools. In almost all but the fewest cases, "adding vibe" will not be on the menu. RX, Equilibrium, Standard Clip when appropriate and Pro L2 are the only processing happening in a huge majority of my masters.

These are all nice pieces. I’ve had a few of them and demoed others. I would advocate for Hilo. And if you ever want to get a different DA or AD at some point, you can just hook it up to Hilo digital IO and still use Hilo for routing and monitor controller. It’s amazing kit. Didn’t jive with the MLA-2. I think there are other opto comps that you might look at such as the new Gainlab Governor. The MEA2 is beast. There are some good plug-in emus but it’s a mean box. Of everything you list, I would grab the Terry. I don’t think there is a plug-in or set of plugins that can achieve it sonically. It might be the only hardware piece that Chris Gehringer has in his studio anymore. I have the Terry and SSL Bus+. I use plug-in digital Eq for surgery. Covers all ground. I am ordering the new Stam Sontec emu.

Another contemporary option would be the Wes Audio ngcomp and ngtube eq. Digitally controlled analog. Great sound.

Analogue gear with digital recall:
Wes Titan - with Rhea, Mimas, Prometheus etc
Bettermaker - Mastering Comp (much better than Wes NG Comp), Limiter 2.0
Black Box Audio - HGQ, their Tube mastering EQ with recall thats due for release soon.

Most of the above can double up as saturation devices with full digital recall too.

+ good converters + good acoustics + good monitors + good headphones

The man that invented the term do no harm is Bob Ludwig.

He would use analog or digital or a hybrid approach,

Depending on the mixes, the artist, and where the record needed to go sonically, to be a commercial success.

I on the other hand use a hybrid approach 99% of the time, the best of both worlds, and it’s worked for me going on 35 years now.

When I met the esteemed Mr. Rupert Neve many years ago, he encouraged me to use more analog processing

Cheers, JT

I think the ancient Greeks might have something to say about that…

Is it not part of the Oath Doctors take? I seem to recall.

Only found out in Covid, I was the only one to have studied Greek amongst my friends. Apparently that is unusual these days, I did not know, I was just a kid at school.

Back on topic: What is the AD/DA choice for new mastering facilities? Tried HILO but realised basically same as my Grace. RME a bit bland without outboard warmth. Prism I like but is that sound a bit dated now? Too snobby to try my Audients, SSLs at al.

I use a Hilo for just pretty much a monitor controller and some stereo analog hardware chain duties. Handy having the xlr AES in/out also. For the time being I've thought about an RME FS802, maybe UFXII/III if I'd like to add more quality I/O channel counts in future, and have wondered how those RME units fairs in a 'mastering' scenario sonic wise, if comparing them to units from any other manufacturers deemed as more 'mastering' duty specific.

+100!!

Hilo is more than just among the most transparent converters you can find. It has so much easily accessible functionality.

Yeh I've 'bashed' the Hilo a bit once or twice on g'space, some moans about quirks it may have (had) or at least what I've experienced. No big deals. I probably wouldn't go for a Hilo v.2 if a need for anything similar arised, but then again if in time they're selling at the used prices the Hilo v.1 go for used these days I most likely could be interested. I do love it for all its functions and uses etc. indeed. Some of the RME interfaces/converters mentioned prior are very appealing as well.