Completing the analog chain for EDM/electronic - Page 7

mardyMcFly · 3 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULA ➡️

I do quite a bit of electronic music mastering. I have had a few of these units. Here were some of my impressions in the edm context:

Silver Bullet mk1- has a cool texture/grit, but especially for buss processing or mastering, I felt it always lost too much low level detail no matter the saturation level. I remember it worked well on some downtempo more rock leaning electronic tracks in mastering, but not for bass-heavy modern stuff. Fun for tracking though. Eventually sold it.

Neve MBP - Really cool box, definitely miss the SFE section, but I just tried and tried and could never gel 100% with the compressor and limiter. They changed the low-end too much. Silk was cool but I always ended up preferring it off. This unit worked wonders on poor mixes, but better mixes I preferred the entire unit in bypass. Has a little bit of a finishing quality overall but wasn't worth having it around for mastering electronic. Even the SFE engaged at neutral settings really changes how the low-end hits for modern stuff.

542s - I love these, they are awesome but I never use them for mastering.

API 5500 - had and sold this one. I couldn't gel with the low end change when engaged and flat. Really cool color though when it works.

HG2 - never had this one, but strikes me from hearing many audio samples that it changes the balance and feel too much like my TC Culture Vulture does in mastering context (for modern electronic styles). Probably cool like you said for gritty techno and lofi stuff, thats where I find use for the TC CV in personal projects but few and far for clients.

Always wanted to try the BL limiter, but I've also found I like clipping before I send out to the analog chain.

Laal I would also like to demo someday, but the various clips I've heard online it doesn't necessarily sound to me like its a winner every time. For revisions, final limiting in analog also doesn't seem ideal for my workflow and pushing a unit like this seems like what you'd want to do.

Other thoughts from my experiences: finding the right DAC was a long journey too in being happy with the transfer. I've found I'm very focused on preserving low level detail/transients and the original feel/phase response of the low-end so this impacts a lot of my impressions of gear. I find myself doing primarily a lot of EQ into clipping/limiting and light digital saturation for these styles. I've been working to pair down my analog outboard to just some key high-end pieces, the fewer the better imo for preserving the material. Not too convinced these styles significantly benefit from analog saturation boxes in mastering (but maybe I'll change my mind if I ever get a Vertigo VSM). I think (know) I could easily get away without the analog loop too...

I'm in the DAC trenches at the moment. I have a Crane Song HEDD Quantam and a Lynx Hilo. I've realized I need a DAC that really preserves or enhances the extended low end for EDM and punchiness, while also having the depth magic of the HEDD. Which DAC did you end up going for? At this stage I think I'm better off going full ITB for EDM, but still am hoping there's a DAC out there for me. Thinking my next try is Dangerous Convert.

boomyak · 3 weeks ago

I really love my Dangerous AD+ for converting the input, but TBH I haven't bothered with the DAC beyond what my RMI interface can do.

My thinking is that on the way out you want it just as 1:1 as possible. I think that the modern DACs all do that quite fine, clinical even.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my philosophy. My only issue has been weather I clock from the Dangerous AD+, or the nice FS clock on the RME. Probably either? Currently letting the RME handle it.

ULA · 3 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by mardyMcFly ➡️

I'm in the DAC trenches at the moment. I have a Crane Song HEDD Quantam and a Lynx Hilo. I've realized I need a DAC that really preserves or enhances the extended low end for EDM and punchiness, while also having the depth magic of the HEDD. Which DAC did you end up going for? At this stage I think I'm better off going full ITB for EDM, but still am hoping there's a DAC out there for me. Thinking my next try is Dangerous Convert.

SPL Mercury. CS has amazing midrange and depth, you won't quite get the almost artifical feeling separation with the spl but its quite transparent and linear and the lows are spot on. For edm, yea itb is the way...

Sance21 · 3 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by ULA ➡️

SPL Mercury. CS has amazing midrange and depth, you won't quite get the almost artifical feeling separation with the spl but its quite transparent and linear and the lows are spot on. For edm, yea itb is the way...

It's funny you mentioned the units that you were fighting against. I have three of them, LTL MK1, Neve MBP II, Ironage V2 (550A flavor). I have the SPL Vitalizer MK3T and two SSL Bus Comps. For the LTL, MBP II and HG2 hardware, sometimes the analog roundness comes at the expense of the transient punch of my ITB mixes. I was trying to convince myself that it wasn't the case of the more digital the track is, the LESS it needs analog in all cases.

For me, it depends on a track by track basis. If I'm going for boom bap hip-hop and dirty metal, then the analog begins to show it's strengths more. One thing having analog helps withe me, is now knowing exactly to match it as close as possible back ITB. It seems for many electronic genres, the ITB mid-range heavy slight clinical but occasionally subtly dirty sound is very common right now.

That sort of goes against all the myths I keep seeing all over these days about analog always being superior.

PTB · 3 weeks ago

Question for you guys - why is the consensus not to use a vari-mu on the master? I've seen mention of it being too slow and a VCA compressor would be a better option however, many people on this forum rave about using a vari-mu on the master for the "glue".

Can you guys elaborate on why the faster VCA is better on the mix bus than the slower vari-mu?

Regardless of compressor type, are you guys using the mix bus compressor in parallel or running the entire mix directly into the compressor before moving onwards to other processors?

I've been experimenting with the plugin version of the Vertigo VSC-3 for adding in parallel compressed version of my entire mix.

I'm down to two frontrunners - the Phoenix Mastering Plus (vari-mu) or the Vertigo VSC-3 (vca). Which one would you go with for "vibe" and enhancing the "bounce" of a track? I guess that can be described as glue?! If it helps, the Mike Dehnert - Infix track that djalexg posted is along the lines of what I'm producing.

buckan · 3 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by PTB ➡️

Question for you guys - why is the consensus not to use a vari-mu on the master? I've seen mention of it being too slow and a VCA compressor would be a better option however, many people on this forum rave about using a vari-mu on the master for the "glue".

Can you guys elaborate on why the faster VCA is better on the mix bus than the slower vari-mu?

Regardless of compressor type, are you guys using the mix bus compressor in parallel or running the entire mix directly into the compressor before moving onwards to other processors?

I've been experimenting with the plugin version of the Vertigo VSC-3 for adding in parallel compressed version of my entire mix.

I'm down to two frontrunners - the Phoenix Mastering Plus (vari-mu) or the Vertigo VSC-3 (vca). Which one would you go with for "vibe" and enhancing the "bounce" of a track? I guess that can be described as glue?! If it helps, the Mike Dehnert - Infix track that djalexg posted is along the lines of what I'm producing.

EDM’s tough to profit from, and going analog’s a gamble—99% won’t recoup time or money.
Analog sound alone can lack the in-your-face edge, so you need high-end gear and smart moves.
A budget- and time-friendly alternative is a desk or multichannel drive (e.g., SSL, Looptrotter or Heritage MCM-8 with 500 series units) for cost-effective analog flavor.

PTB · 3 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckan ➡️

EDM’s tough to profit from, and going analog’s a gamble—99% won’t recoup time or money.
Analog sound alone can lack the in-your-face edge, so you need high-end gear and smart moves.
A budget- and time-friendly alternative is a desk or multichannel drive (e.g., SSL, Looptrotter or Heritage MCM-8 with 500 series units) for cost-effective analog flavor.

Not trying to recoup time or money... besides I'm already all in lol

I agree, analog and tracking (even digital sources) through tubes bends the sound and it's not as punchy or "clear" as producing ITB, but there's more to using analog gear than just for the sound, it's about the process, too.

Are the recommendations in this thread to use a VCA over a mari-vu based on processing EDM tracks vs. more traditional house & techno tracks?

mardyMcFly · 3 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomyak ➡️

I really love my Dangerous AD+ for converting the input, but TBH I haven't bothered with the DAC beyond what my RMI interface can do.

My thinking is that on the way out you want it just as 1:1 as possible. I think that the modern DACs all do that quite fine, clinical even.

Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my philosophy. My only issue has been weather I clock from the Dangerous AD+, or the nice FS clock on the RME. Probably either? Currently letting the RME handle it.

What opened my eyes, or ears, was doing loopback tests with my DA, XLR cable straight into my AD. Then volume matching to the original file, and carefully listen to all areas, slowly. Transients, depth, punch. Detail. How much I felt I was there with the instruments (if that's important to you) it is possible your listening DAC and setup may prevent you from noticing the differences. I know on my old Orion 32 plus monitor out DACs, they weren't as detailed as my SMSL D1seV2 DAC, and couldn't hear the changes that well that my DA-AD loop was doing.

My chain, not exactly sure the order for my new room when I set it back up. Wish had a black box HG-2 btw. ��

Cranesong HEDD DA (might change)
Bettermaker Mastering EQ
HVA4K Compressor (SSL G clone with mix knob)
IGS Tubecore 3U Vari Mu (mid side with mix knob)
Avalon 747
Carnaby HE-2 (really great flexible saturation)
HVA EQ-6S (Maag EQ clone)
Elesia Nvelope (probably in mid side through Carnaby HE-2 insert)
SPL BIG (this is great, but will prob only use a click or 2 to widen up just a little.)
Back into Lynx Hilo ADC, the Hilo captures more low end that the HEDD ADC, HEDD has more tightness though.

sergioelectro · 3 weeks ago

Hello,

What is the most fatest analog summing unit for Dance music ? Looking for weight and strong analog sound fat creamy signature . Something really obvious.

Up to now, I have focused focused my attention on the folowwing units:

- Thermionic Culture Fat Bustard 2
- Great River Master 20
- Chandler Mini Mixer

Which one will sound the FATEST ?

Any other summing units that fits this goal ?

Thanks for sharing your experience

Regards

Sergio

sergioelectro · 3 weeks ago

Hello,

What is the best ssl compressor like, unit to be put on the master 2 bus for Dance Music: I hesitate between those 2 analog units
-Wes Audio Ngbuscomp
- Stam Audio Sa-4000 mk3 with Neve mod, or another mod.

Or, are plugins enough?
Or are analog units a step higher ?

Thanks for sharing your experience

Sergio

buckan · 3 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergioelectro ➡️

Hello,

Any particular summing unit that could be effective for Dance music to add fatness ?

Thanks for sharing your experience

Regards

Sergio

I currently have the Dangerous Music unit positioned last in the summing chain, with other summing mixers upstream.

My next focus is on input-stage coloration—driving signal into tape emulators, tubes, transformers, and other analog circuits.

I appreciate what SPL Iron and Vitalizer and such bring—especially for that polished, radio-ready Billboard aesthetic—but they’re not the right fit for genres like Berlin techno. In some cases, I’m prioritizing character, saturation over sheen.

OrphicTrench · 3 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergioelectro ➡️

Hello,

What is the best ssl compressor like, unit to be put on the master 2 bus for Dance Music: I hesitate between those 2 analog units
-Wes Audio Ngbuscomp
- Stam Audio Sa-4000 mk3 with Neve mod, or another mod.

Or, are plugins enough?
Or are analog units a step higher ?

Thanks for sharing your experience

Sergio

Summing is extremely overrated. Bob Katz demonstrates this in his book "Mastering Audio: The Art and the Science". He suggests placing transformers for the same effect. I think both units you mentioned include transformers, which is nice.

I think the Stam is great, but I wouldn't choose the Neve mod for electronic music. I would prefer no mod or the API mod. Fast paced music tends to benefit from cleaner gear IME.

Personally, I would recommend the Foote P3S ME. I'd use the SSL flavor during mixing if I need to (I like it especially on drums). For mastering, I lean towards something cleaner/more subtle like the Foote.

sergioelectro · 3 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrphicTrench ➡️

Summing is extremely overrated. Bob Katz demonstrates this in his book "Mastering Audio: The Art and the Science". He suggests placing transformers for the same effect. I think both units you mentioned include transformers, which is nice.

Hello,

Thanks for your kind reply.

I really wonders if there is a signigicant gap between the best latest ssl compressor emulation plug-ins and the harware units???

I think the Stam is great, but I wouldn't choose the Neve mod for electronic music. I would prefer no mod or the API mod. Fast paced music tends to benefit from cleaner gear IME.

Personally, I would recommend the Foote P3S ME. I'd use the SSL flavor during mixing if I need to (I like it especially on drums). For mastering, I lean towards something cleaner/more subtle like the Foote.

Thanks for your kind reply.

I really wonders if there is a signigicant gap between the best latest ssl compressor emulation plug-ins and the harware units, so that it is really worth buying the harware version ??? I am particulary attracted by the WesAudio ngbuscomp.

Thanks
Sergio

OrphicTrench · 3 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergioelectro ➡️

Thanks for your kind reply.

I really wonders if there is a signigicant gap between the best latest ssl compressor emulation plug-ins and the harware units, so that it is really worth buying the harware version ??? I am particulary attracted by the WesAudio ngbuscomp.

Thanks
Sergio

I'm sure it's great! If you like how it sounds and it makes you more excited about mixing, I say go for it!

A couple of years ago, I would put my hw SSL clone on almost every mix (I have the Audioscape one). Nowadays I'm a bit more lazy and only place it if I'm already going OTB. If I'm all ITB, I try to keep it that way just for convenience.

In the A/B tests I did, the HW compressor beat all of my plugins, especially when hitting it hard. With more subtle settings, the difference was small enough that I wouldn't mind using the software. But I still liked the HW better.

mardyMcFly · 3 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergioelectro ➡️

Thanks for your kind reply.

I really wonders if there is a signigicant gap between the best latest ssl compressor emulation plug-ins and the harware units, so that it is really worth buying the harware version ??? I am particulary attracted by the WesAudio ngbuscomp.

Thanks
Sergio

The Wes audio bus comp must be amazing. I would get it but I'm very satisfied with my HVA-4K. It's a fifth of the price so basically free 😆 hardware wise, I've only tried the HVA-4K. I really like Acustica SAND 4 plugin. but it's a CPU hot and my PC is getting on...

Servellen Music · 3 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergioelectro ➡️

Thanks for your kind reply.

I really wonders if there is a signigicant gap between the best latest ssl compressor emulation plug-ins and the harware units, so that it is really worth buying the harware version ??? I am particulary attracted by the WesAudio ngbuscomp.

Thanks
Sergio

I just got the Wes Audio NG Comp specifically for mastering (mostly electronic) and find it has a great sound and helps me create needed density and punch. Beyond great sound it has all the control you need with SC, dry/wet, adjustable attack, release, ratio and Iron transformer, digital recall etc. This unit for me, is more helpful for mastering than my other HW compressors (Neve MBP, Wes Rhea, Distressors). Software can be great and is so much more practical and affordable but to me still lacks a certain character and vibe.

PTB · 2 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by OrphicTrench ➡️

Personally, I would recommend the Foote P3S ME. I'd use the SSL flavor during mixing if I need to (I like it especially on drums). For mastering, I lean towards something cleaner/more subtle like the Foote.

Just spotted the P3S in Stimming's Tech Talk.

Completing the analog chain for EDM/electronic

nick b · 2 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by mardyMcFly ➡️

I'm in the DAC trenches at the moment. I have a Crane Song HEDD Quantam and a Lynx Hilo. I've realized I need a DAC that really preserves or enhances the extended low end for EDM and punchiness, while also having the depth magic of the HEDD. Which DAC did you end up going for? At this stage I think I'm better off going full ITB for EDM, but still am hoping there's a DAC out there for me. Thinking my next try is Dangerous Convert.

For a while I was happy with the Hilo as my hardware pitch DAC and the Dangerous AD+ as the capture ADC. But I decided I wanted to try the Convert 2 and found one used at a very fair price, so I went for it. What convinced me was that-

1. Both converters are from the same generation of Dangerous products, so they must have designed both converters to work well together in a pitch / catch mastering setup.

2. I'm using the Hilo's AES to connect with a Trinnov, so due to the Hilo's 'limitations' I needed converters that worked with ADAT. Either that or I pivot to the RME AES card, though ideally I'd like to save the additional $2k+.

It took me a long time to get the Convert 2 working with the Hilo, mostly due to user error and a bum wordclock cable. But just the other day I dug in and investigated until I got it sync'd and working.

I listened to some mixes that I recently mastered with the Hilo as the hw DAC, this time running them through the hardware chain nearly flat with both Dangerous converters. It was really interesting. I felt like there was more separation and clarity, and my instinct was that just running flat, the mix now needed less processing than before.

I don't often work with EDM, but the majority of the mixes I receive are electronic indie pop type productions, complete with 808's, loudness and density. For this I could see the Dangerous pair working exceptionally.

TL;DR - go for it, they're an absolutely amazing pair of converters for modern mastering.

buckan · 2 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by PTB ➡️

Just spotted the P3S in Stimming's Tech Talk.

Anyone else finding themselves dialing back outboard and leaning into the rawer, vibe-first approach?

I'm re-recording, ITB and stem mixing through a hybrid analog/digital setup.

First recording driving into an SSL Pure Drive and using a Heritage Audio MCM-8 II on its send/return to add additional harmonic flavours without hyping the top.

I’ve been considering adding a second MCM-8 II in parallel — one more for filters and envelope generators — and to better integrate with my MCM20.4 and Dangerous Music rig during stem sessions.

But lately I’m starting to question how much of this really translates to the listener. With Gen Z, it’s all about “vibe” — aha, for them vibe is only to feel, not fidelity. I’m hearing tracks that sound like a JV-1080 and "authentic field recordings" run through a S950 OR Mackify plugin.

They're worse than the MP3 generation, signal path seems irrelevant.

So I’m thinking: maybe the industry is at the point where intentional imperfection (like Engmix) matters more than any traditional, gain-staged, headroom-perfect chain.

I still love my analog path, but isn't better worse in their ears?

PTB · 2 weeks ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckan ➡️

But lately I’m starting to question how much of this really translates to the listener. With Gen Z, it’s all about “vibe” — aha, for them vibe is only to feel, not fidelity. I’m hearing tracks that sound like a JV-1080 and "authentic field recordings" run through a S950 OR Mackify plugin.

They're worse than the MP3 generation, signal path seems irrelevant.

So I’m thinking: maybe the industry is at the point where intentional imperfection (like Engmix) matters more than any traditional, gain-staged, headroom-perfect chain.

I still love my analog path, but isn't better worse in their ears?

Was just reading Interview with Dave Pensado

djalexg · 1 week ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by PTB ➡️

Was just reading Interview with Dave Pensado

all nonsense for being shit and lazy. Ppl dont know what they want.

sergioelectro · 1 week ago

Hello guys,

Any other analog units that really bring real fatness for Dance music genre and EDM, and that are not emulated in the plug-ins world ?

Thanks for sharing your experience
Regards
Sergio

buckan · 1 week ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergioelectro ➡️

Hello guys,

Any other analog units that really bring real fatness for Dance music genre and EDM, and that are not emulated in the plug-ins world ?

Thanks for sharing your experience
Regards
Sergio

For stem mixing, I tend to reach for stereo saturators—there’s no shortage of options, and picking one is like recommending a color to a painter: highly contextual. What works depends on the stem’s character, the instrument, the genre, and how it interacts with the rest of the mix and processing chain.

In some genres, something like Tegler (I don't like the look) Magnetimus (Fatnessimus hehe) could absolutely be part of a toolkit—definitely worth auditioning.

AudioKemestry · 6 days ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergioelectro ➡️

Hello guys,

Any other analog units that really bring real fatness for Dance music genre and EDM, and that are not emulated in the plug-ins world ?

Thanks for sharing your experience
Regards
Sergio

Haven't seen it mentioned on this thread yet so I'm gonna suggest the solid state/mosfet Michelangelo (with the 1/3 gain mod). Added one to my mastering chain last year and its finding its way on to every master. Chris said it would be cleaner and more punchy than the tube version and his description seems to be right on point. Workflow is super fast, and it adds really nice odd order harmonics that enhance transients, density, and punch. Playing around with the calibration settings will also allow you to get more or less color out of the mosfet circuit as needed, so experimentation is key. Hope that helps. I'd also take a look at the Goly CrossCompEQ, which is a great tool that can also add some movement and punch.

sergioelectro · 6 days ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckan ➡️

For stem mixing, I tend to reach for stereo saturators—there’s no shortage of options, and picking one is like recommending a color to a painter: highly contextual. What works depends on the stem’s character, the instrument, the genre, and how it interacts with the rest of the mix and processing chain.

In some genres, something like Tegler (I don't like the look) Magnetimus (Fatnessimus hehe) could absolutely be part of a toolkit—definitely worth auditioning.

Hello,

Thank you for your reply.
Never really consider those units before, because I thoought that the improvment and color they bring was too subtle .
Regards
Sergio

sergioelectro · 6 days ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioKemestry ➡️

Haven't seen it mentioned on this thread yet so I'm gonna suggest the solid state/mosfet Michelangelo (with the 1/3 gain mod). Added one to my mastering chain last year and its finding its way on to every master. Chris said it would be cleaner and more punchy than the tube version and his description seems to be right on point. Workflow is super fast, and it adds really nice odd order harmonics that enhance transients, density, and punch. Playing around with the calibration settings will also allow you to get more or less color out of the mosfet circuit as needed, so experimentation is key. Hope that helps. I'd also take a look at the Goly CrossCompEQ, which is a great tool that can also add some movement and punch.

Hello,

Thanks for your kind reply.
It(s funny because some other people alrteady advised me the Michelangelo eq.
I am not sure about which version to choose: the tube version might get FATTER sounds ?
Regards
Sergio

AudioKemestry · 6 days ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergioelectro ➡️

Hello,

Thanks for your kind reply.
It(s funny because some other people alrteady advised me the Michelangelo eq.
I am not sure about which version to choose: the tube version might get FATTER sounds ?
Regards
Sergio

Depends on what else you have in your chain and what your sonic needs are. In my case it was an easy choice since I already have a bunch of other tube gear (Massive Passive, Pollock, 747), and I wanted faster transient response and more punchiness/aggression. The tube version MA will give you more triode saturation and even order harmonics, so a thicker sound with more sheen. Many who use the tube version for mastering end up using it in parallel.

sergioelectro · 6 days ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioKemestry ➡️

Depends on what else you have in your chain and what your sonic needs are. In my case it was an easy choice since I already have a bunch of other tube gear (Massive Passive, Pollock, 747), and I wanted faster transient response and more punchiness/aggression. The tube version MA will give you more triode saturation and even order harmonics, so a thicker sound with more sheen.

Thank you for your kind reply
Very interesting

I am aslo attracted by the Pultec eq clone versions made by Stam Audio: but the question is always the same:
Are they worth buying since they already exist in plug-in format, since plug-ins become more and more accurate as time flies.

OrphicTrench · 6 days ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergioelectro ➡️

Hello,

Thanks for your kind reply.
It(s funny because some other people alrteady advised me the Michelangelo eq.
I am not sure about which version to choose: the tube version might get FATTER sounds ?
Regards
Sergio

I have the tube version and I find that for mastering a fast electronic music track (140bpm), it's often times too much. On anything slower, it works really well. I tend to use it more on IDM than in techno.

poppaflavor · 5 days ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by sergioelectro ➡️

Hello,

Thanks for your kind reply.
It(s funny because some other people alrteady advised me the Michelangelo eq.
I am not sure about which version to choose: the tube version might get FATTER sounds ?
Regards
Sergio

Guess what, you don't have to choose.

Hendyamps made a custom version (called "XL") for Audio Animals and is now selling it commercially to all.

Scroll down a bit on the Michelangelo page:
https://hendyamps.com/michelangelo

I aspire to this beast :-) Audio examples and concept is quite compelling. I was going to get the tube version, then I waffled and wanted the SS version, then I backtracked to the tube version. Then I said eff it... I'll just keep saving up and get the one I won't have to quibble about. Hopefully this year!

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