Given your intended mix position and the size of the room, plus your intention not to use a sub, I would suggest you try the LSR308 first.

OK, thanks for the tip. I'm going to try the 308s first.

Hi, there is a distinct lack of equator D5 and 8 on the Sonic Sense link.. A bit strange for such a popular and well reviewed monitor don't you think? Why so? Other than that, a brilliant comparison place. I think the Jbl 305's are a hands down winner in their price range, and ill be adding them to my Equator D8's as a second pair. Cheers.

Sonic Sense are a shop, so if they don't sell Equator then they don't test them.

Hmm, yes, shame tho, it would probably benefit both Equator audio, and the buying public..

Bump, how are the 305's after some real world useage?
Translation, bass extension, vs.the competition.

I just picked on a used Blue Sky System One 2.1 like new for $550 with only 4 months of use (can you believe it?)

I was looking into the JBL LSR305 for a 2nd pair to switch back and forth with vs. the Focal 50 or 6.5

Since I have bass up the A** with the System Ones, I really want something small and not a ton of bass just to see how my mixes translate between one and the other.

I think I'll try the JBL! I can always send them back if I wasn't 100% happy, but I think after all I read I will!

SEA

What do you guys think of these (LSR305s) vs the Tannoy Reveal 502s?

The waveguides disperse energy from the tweeter over a larger area. The reason for the odd shape is that this waveguide is most likely not designed to have equal dispersion/radiation pattern up/down as left/right or perhaps something else.

Waveguide design is complex. And they don't all look the same since they are designed for different tweeters, and for different goals. What do you want to achieve?

They come out looking weird if the simulation software deciedes that that is the shape required for that specific wanted dispersion/other characteristics.

Btw I'm quite sure that last one is not a waveguide at all, it a horn.

So, what is the difference between a waveguide and a horn? I've always wanted to have a clear answer to that.

I was looking at purchasing either the LSR305's or the Yamaha HS5's and was edging towards the LSR 305's however, I've just seen that I can pick up a pair of Yamaha HS7's for the same price as the LSR 305's.

Which would you pick? I'm currently in an untreated room but will be moving house and looking to do some partial treatment in the new room.

JBL , less harsh and more bass

Horns amplify (Like a megaphone). Waveguides... guide

Disclaimer:
I'm not a pro speaker builder or physicist but I have built a few speakers, none with horns or waveguides though.

The way I understand it:

The primary goal of horns are to amplify the sound and they achieve this by acoustic impedance matching of the diaphragm and the air, a type of impedance transformer I suppose.
Basically the horn makes it easier for the tweeter to couple its movement to the surrounding air and by doing that the transfer of energy becomes more efficient and you get more/louder sound per watt injected. The bigger the horn the better the coupling.

Also the horns can be designed to radiate in weird patterns.

At the cost of "horn sounds" since all horns have this more or less. Some designs are better at some things and some are better at others. There are a few articles on wikipedia about horns. There are many different designs.

Horn loudspeaker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All speakers are compromises, horns too. You just have select what compromises you find acceptable.

As you see in the pics above the speaker with the horn has a large woofer in a large box= much sound. If you want louder sound you could add more woofers, you could fill your entire house. These operate at long wavelengths and are small compared to the wavelengths they play. If you want louder treble you just add more tweeters right?? No cant do that, since they operate with much shorter waves you will be creating a combfilter if you have several of them. At different distances and frequencies they will create narrowband suckouts and boosts. So you need to amplify the sounds with horns.

I even think you get the same effect when the distance is very big (compared to the wavelength) between the mid and the tweeter. A speaker could measure as a straight line on axis but move your head a little (or much) and bam instant combfilter mania.

---------

Waveguides seems to squeeze the top octave off axis disperson together.

Compared to straight ahead on axis (0 degree) maybe you have a drop at 60 degree out (horizonthal) of 6db between 10and 20khz with a certain tweeter in a certain physical dimensioned box with a certain filter (I just pulled these figures out of my ass). With a certain waveguide you could have a 0db drop at 60 degrees from 10-20khz for example.

Waveguides also seems to raise the low freq level (like 2-6khz or so) and possibly enable lower crossover freq of the tweeters. Or at least you get more db at lower freq "for free", (and tweeters don't like low frequencies since they burn up then). Then you can eq this part flat and thereby lower distortion in that area.

Why would one want the same freq response at 60 degrees as 0 degrees??
Because if you listen on axis the speaker will still emit sounds going off axis and sooner or later when these sounds have bounced around in your studio they will hit your ears. Wouldn't it be nice if they sounded the same as the ones coming from on axis? That is: the speakers sends out a straight line spectrum from 0 to maybe 60 degrees, the sound doesnt change character with angle and frequency. so the reflected delayed sound sounds the same as the non reflected.

This is also important at around the crossover frequency for all speakers (waveguide or no waveguide): Ideally you want the same off axis dispersion here from both the tweeter and woofer. Otherwise it sounds bad since the reflected sounds are different from the on axis ones.

I'm not saying a waveguide is a must have. It isn't. It just solves (well it might solve) one or a few problems, and there are many many more things to consider that are just as important or much more important when designing or selecting a speaker.

If it sounds good it sounds good, thats it.

Then again I don't build these professionally so ymmv.

Here are some links about waveguides, some have measurements.
ScanSpeak-Waveguides
Zaph|Audio
benefits and drawbacks of waveguides - diyAudio
Are there advantages to a waveguide tweeter in a typical 3 way?
waveguide for dome tweeter? - diyAudio
Practical DIY Waveguides - Part 3
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthr...ngoing-studies

Also all those diy speakers use off the shelf tweeters and then they try to make another random off the shelf waveguide do some magic with it. And you get what you get pretty much. While i would guess the jbl guys use a "slightly different" approach since they actually make the tweeters and the waveguide as a system meant to work together and therefor have control of all parameters already at the design phase before the parts were even made. I would guess this creates a slightly better overall system, at least it has the potential (considering its cheap speaker). Whatever now "better" might be.

Hi and thanks a lot for the very valuable explanations and advice.
But i must have misunderstood. I thought that waveguides have normal shapes. Instead is the horn in the JBLs that is funny looking.
Maybe it works wonderfully but the shape is weird indeed.

My understanding is that speakers with controlled and limited dispersion should be easier to place in a normal room.
There will be less reflections of sound. And also the efficiency goes up, also a nice thing.
And i see that waveguides are very popular, like in the JBL of the thread.
I can live very well with a limited listening sweet spot. I listen alone to music.

I see. Their shape is the result of a calculation.
I do not know. I still do not like things that are not circular and symmetrical.
I agree it is more a matter of look.
Thanks again, gino

The 305 has more bass than the HS7?? (I know it's a weird comparison as normally you'd compare the 305 to the HS5).

Yes, in the paper both says 43hz, but in real life i feel more and tighter bass from the JBL´s

sweetspot will be wider with a waveguide.

see here, same tweeter, bottom one with the waveguide mounted. see top octave.

measurements:

Jbls have more thump in the bass, but Yammis have more low end and I feel them more defined.

This is like Sophie's choice! :p

This topic again!? LOL.

From the charts I've seen, the JBL has marginally more low-end output. When listening, they sounded very similar (IMHO). I didn't get much time with them (the HS7) though.

I dunno.

Which is why I always ask people to audition the speakers themselves; preferably in the environment they plan on using them.

Otherwise, you'll get different answers; with no real consensus.

Unfortunately it won't really be possible for me. If I can't go wrong with either I suppose I may as well go for the slightly cheaper choice (JBL).

Yep, I liked the HS7, but couldn't justify the price difference. The JBL' were just as good (IMHO), plus I got two with a volume controller and pads for slightly cheaper than the cost of one HS7 at regular price. They warranty was also better (In North America though).

It's me again. I was on this thread complaining about the poor performance (boominess, lack of highs, harsh mids, and poor fidelity) of the JBL LSR305 [31st July (page 11) to 20th Aug. (page14)]. I just thought I'd update on my monitor progress.

A few months ago I bought a pair of the Yamaha MSP5 monitors. They are truly excellent, and leave the LSR305 standing. They are beautifully clear with a fantastically well-defined sound. Furthermore, I am running them on clamping wall mounts, with the rear of the units only 3 inches from the wall. One issue with these however, is that they lack the lows that I found the LSR305 exhibits in excess, so I have matched them with an Adam Sub7 subwoofer (also a forward facing port), thus making my monitoring system complete. I only need to set the volume control of the Sub7 to about -30dB, which is a quarter the way up. From what I've read, the 7" version (MSP7) shouldn't really need a subwoofer. Had I been able to test and compare them, I may have likely opted for the MSP7 instead.

This time I can declare that the MSP5 + Sub7 makes my Logitech Z4 sound distinctly inferior.

Just as I suspected, despite being told I was wrong, these speakers, with their forward-facing ports, clearly make the difference, rendering proximity to facing wall irrelevant and reducing the need for extensive acoustic treatment, thus making them more suitable for smaller rooms.

Not much of an endorsement.
I see that after all the time you wasted - ours and the people that sold you the 305s - you really haven't learned much; you still think you were right all along. That's a shame.

It's time for you to cease and desist!

You're a tosser. You want me to praise the inferior JBL product that you have wasted your money on. No can do. At least I now have a monitoring system that exposes yours as substandard.

(yawn) Are we all done here? I'm glad you've found a solution to your issue, but please don't insult other jbl owners because they didn't work well in your environment (being too close to the wall and all that).

All speakers will behave different in different environments.

Treatment
Proximity
Song Material
Ports.

Change any factor and they'll give different results. So even a crap speaker could sound fine, in a certain room.

Good for you that you have found a pair of speakers that suit your hearing issues and your boomy untreated room. Would not work for everyone