Hey my fellow fanatics of sound!

Long-time lurker, first-time poster here. I’ve come to you with a little riddle.
What has 4 good pre-amps, costs around 400€ (used is fine) and allows me to record 4 tracks simultaneously to OS X running Logic 8? I am currently using a 2008 MacBook with Logic 8 and 10.6.8.

Some infos:
I’ve been writing, recording and performing music for 15 years now. I’ve released records on labels and independently, been interviewed and played on BBC Radio, gotten myself a BMus from Goldsmiths, UoL. I have always gravitated to a kinda low-fi sound - I started off using 2 Nintendo Gameboys running LSDJ, and used a stolen Behringer Ultravoice as my main microphone for many years (in fact, until about 2 years ago). I have always used a Tascam US-200 as my audio interface. I also have an Oktava MK012, a 58, and a 57. I used to own a Sennheiser MKH416, and have often recorded with a mate’s MXL 990 or Rode NT1.
I’ve collected vinyl since I was a kid (my parents are big on 50s music and instilled it in me) and have recently been building up my hi-fi game. I’m not an audiophile, but I can’t stand to hear music on bad speakers - I’ve spent a fair bit of time trying out different amplifiers, speakers and subs. I’ve worked for the BBC and for several big film and tv studies and production houses in Berlin. I know the standards of production necessary for professional products - this is not something I’m interested in. I am buying purely to satisfy my artistic desires. I don’t make punk, but I certainly don’t make pop either. You can check my music here if you want an exact understanding: paulvincentsnow dot com.
Down the long and exciting road my musical career and life have taken me, I’ve become proficient at using the tools at my disposal to craft my sound. I’ve worked the mains hum, audio hiss, rumble from passing cars or raindrops from an open window into my sounds, and have received a lot of praise for my intimate and unique style (presumably from people who are good at being polite). I like using the harsh scratch of a cable defect as an interlude between key changes, for example.
In recent years I’ve gotten into folk and classic rock, and am going for a different vibe on my new record. I love, for example, the great album CSN (1977). The opening of shadow captain, with only guitar, vocal harmonies, and gentle cymbal rolls - WOW! That’s something I can’t manage with my hiss-y ass preamps and mics.
I’m having difficulties now recording quiet passages with only a mic’d guitar amp (I have a VOX AC15HW1X) or an intimate vocal recording, a la Jeff Buckley. There’s simply too much hum and hiss from the mics, preamps, or both. I’ll repeat, I’ve been using a Tascam US200 for over 10 years, and it’s actually been fine until now.
I’ve tried using a set mixer I have with (supposedly) good pre-amps, it’s the same story. I’ve tried switching all the lights, the wifi-router and other appliances in my studio off. I’ve tried moving the microphone about, every kind of gain staging imaginable, and all of the 4 mics at my disposal.
I do sometimes also record very quiet singing - I like the sound and sensation; when every movement of the mouth is audible.

I have decided thus: I need better pre-amps! I played a live show recently (in fact, I hosted and organised it) and used my SM58 into a Mackie as my main vocal mic. This worked well, but as the sound-dude turned up the reverb and delay on certain tracks the hum and hiss became so overpowering the live recording is basically ruined. I’ve realised I’m reaching the end of my abilities as an arty, DIY recording guy.

I have also recently built up a drum kit (I played a lot as a teen) and am looking to track my own drums. I have a relatively good idea of how to mic them, but for this I need at least 4 inputs.

So, TL,DR: I need an interface, or recording solution, with a decent pre-amp (good enough to record quiet vocals and not have any noticeable hiss/hum) and 4 mic inputs. I guess I only need 1 truly great pre-amp, the volume of the drums should allow me to record at a low enough level to not have any hiss or hum.

I am also open to (for example) buying a dedicated vocal mic (I’ve been looking at an AT4040 or whatever the number is, or an MXL V67G) and a good preamp (or a fathead?) for this, plus a cheap 4 or 8 track interface for the drum tracking.

As I use an old MacBook (believe me, that thing has worked for 13 years, I will only replace it with the same version when it breaks) I’m not fussed about how old the gear is. I don’t mind if it only runs on firewire, in fact I think this could be a great way to save money. I also believe that older stuff was built to last....to a certain extent, of course. I rarely buy new, and would take some persuading to do so.

I hope you are able to help me. I am open to crazy suggestions. Lastly, my budget is theoretically flexible, pretty much to about 1000€ - but there'd have to be a good reason. As my 50€ MacBoo, 50GBP Interface and (accidentally, btw) stolen Mic have gotten me 10 years into my career, I'm fairly tempted to buy a Muto 8pre and call it a day. Another option is an Apogee Ensemble - I'm currently talking to a dude who wants 400€ for his.

Many thanks for bearing with my rambling nature, peace and love to y’all!

If you can't get competent sounds with the Tascam US200 then a "better" interface is not going to help things.

The Tascam like many basic interfaces is capable of a level of quality that you should be able to achieve very decent sounding low noise recordings... assuming of course that you understand proper gainstaging and can control the background noise in your recording space.

Hi Last, thanks for your reply!

I have been getting competent sounds out of the US200 for 10 years. In fact, any of the 2 albums, or over 100 tracks you can hear on my website were recorded with it. I've had my tracks played on the BBC or countless other radio stations, featured on mixtapes, have played concerts in huge venues, alongside artists such as The Prodigy and Ed Sheehan. I have shared my music with the world and the world didn't hate it.

I have recently been trying to record very quiet vocals, and guitar tones. I've noticed a lot of hiss and hum when I turn my gain up. I've experimented with three different pre-amp sources (all 'low-quality' or 'budget' devices), the 4 mics at my disposal, eliminating all interference sources and moving the mics around (believe me, I was spending this morning walking around the studio with headphones on, my 57 and a portable mixer).

I would like some suggestions for a device with better pre-amps, as I'm fairly sure the Tascam US200 does not have particularly good ones. In fact, I'd just say I'm ready for an upgrade. I've spent 15 years humbly honing my craft, and think I deserve a better interface/pre-amp combo now.

Like I said, I need 4 tracks for recording drums, and a decent preamp for recording very quiet vocals. Maybe a dedicated vocal mix would be a good shout too. I hope I've provided enough information. Thanks for your patience and good will.

Ah, also: seeing as you mention gainstaging - are there any tips on gain-staging you can give me when recording vocals into a 57, which runs into a tascam US200? I'm always willing to learn.

If you need four inputs and your current interface only has two then that's a good reason to buy something new.

Your noise problems are something to address though as I doubt a new interface will solve this for you if you can't get decent sound with the US200. I'm confused that you seemed to be saying the US200 got you good sound at one point but now you have issues.

Gain staging starts at the source, the voice, the mic, how close you are to the mic. All this is important to consider before you even get to turning that gain knob.

The 57 is capable of capturing a good vocal sound but it is far from the best choice on soft sounds.

If you are going to use it on a soft vocal then I would suggest getting a good pop filter and getting quite close up on it. You will have to manage the low frequencies with eq due to the mic's strong proximity effect.

Figuring out where the noise you are hearing is actually coming from is obviously key here to your issues.

Often monitoring too loud in headphones lets you hear stuff like background noise and sometimes even the headphone amp itself fooling you into thinking that your mic or micpre is the guilty party when they are not.

If you set your gain so you can capture your vocal with peaks at least about -18bdfs but no higher than -12dbfs and then play it back on speakers at a reasonable volume do you have audible noise issues?

I agree 100%! Alone the fact that I need 4 tracks makes it necessary for me to upgrade now.
Funnily, I was thinking of a workaround - sending 2 mics to the US200 and 2 to a Zoom H4n I have. But the thing is: I'm not broke and I've been using ridiculous DIY fixes like that for 15 years. I'm ready for a professional solution.

The sound has been fine for me while making harsh, "outsider" music. I've never been concerned about having perfect silence in the back of my recordings, because the aesthetic of my music was very lo-fi. I tried to explain this in my original post. All my old recordings have a certain level of hiss or hum in the background. It's never bothered me until now....now that I'm going for a more hi-fi, cleaner sound.

Thanks, but this is exactly what I've been doing. I'm about 10cm from the mic (with a popshield) and trying to record whispering, or very quiet singing. I tried with the Oktava MK012, the SM58, and a Behringer Ultravoice too. Same result.

One important thing to note might also be that I often sing in a very quiet voice. Sure, I can whack it out the park too, but I often like to sing very quietly, or whisper spoken word sections. I know how to project, I've been on stage, theatre, done VO for Panasonic and Sky - but it's not always artistically fitting to project in a loud voice. Sometimes I want to whimper, or whine, very quietly. And even when I'm very close to the mic, it doesn't seem to pick up enough.

Definitely, I hugely agree. I turned off all electronic equipment, including my router and phone, used a set mixer that runs off batteries. I moved the mics all throughout the studio, and even my flat. Same results.

It shows up on recordings too though, not just in my monitoring.

I will go and try this now. I'll also record a sample of the sound and upload it. Maybe it's possible to recognise the source by the sound.

Warning: clip is a bit loud.

Ok, so I set my gain to between -18 and -12. This already resulted in the hum being audible in the background. I've checked on the EQ btw and it seems to be exactly 500hz, which makes me think ground loop, or some mains interferance? But I've only got my macbook running on the mains, and nothing else. I also tried using my set mixer (running on batteries) and it sounds exactly the same. Is there just a lot of EMR in my room?

As you can hear in the second part of the clip, i tried turning the gain down and applying a DB boost with logic instead. This removes the hum but increases hiss to unnaceptable levels.

Do you not think an Apogee interface would fare better? I'm currently talking to a guy who is willing to let his 4-track Ensemble go for 400€.

Definitely an issue there.

Do you have any power supplies (like the laptop's power block or other equipment with a wall wart or line lump) near the mic, mic cable, or close to any audio gear?

Well this is the crazy thing - I’ve tried the 57 with my portable audio mixer, which runs off batteries, and walked around the whole flat with it. The sound follows me everywhere. It’s also present with the MK012 and an SM58. I wonder if the wiring in my flat is just awful? Am I some kind of superhero who radiates EMFs?
So yeah, I can set up my mic, stand and cable at the other end of the studio, far away from my laptop and plug sockets. I turned off the router, my phone, and all the lights in the room. It still hums like a bloody bumble bee.
I tried two different cables too. I’m nearing the end of my tether….

Have you tried running the laptop on battery?

Also be sure there is nothing else besides the interface plugged into the laptop.

Yeah. I just walked around my flat with a portable set mixer and my 57. I even turned off the mains fuse and it did makes noticeable different. With the mains off the highest hum is gone, but walking around the house I can still induce the low hum by placing the mic close to walls, around sockets and switches where I assume that main lines run. When turning the mains back on I could hear an increase in the hum and noise immediately. Placing my mic even 30 cm away from my lightbulb gave me a bunch of disgusting sounds. Annoyingly a certain level of hum is basically ever present. My flat is right above the cellar room where the mains for my block is split into separate mains, and I assume the walls for my flat carry the power that runs to the 3 flats above me. I guess because these flats are old it’s just badly shielded. I hope it’s not a health hazard but I guess the only way to be sure would be to spend a lot of money on having an expert come out, and even then, EMF is a bit of a controversial topic. Luckily we’re planning on moving out soon anyway.
I guess I should start looking into shielding now? Which component of the chain do you think should be shielded?

So many possiblities for what the issue might be here.

Does your 58 do this as well as the 57?

There are quite a few fake 57's and 58's around, did you buy yours from a legit source?

Have you only used one mic cable in your testing? Also do you have decent XLR or super cheapies? I don't think you need some super expensive cable but the cheapest of cheap can sometimes be a problem.

I had a somewhat similar problem with my 57's but the sound was quite different more of a buzzy kind of noise that changed in amount with moving the mic's direction and place in the room. I couldn't figure it out but finally when one of the AC wall plugs became too loose to hold a power cable and I replaced it and magically the issue was gone.

While I did have the issue the 57's and 58's were the worst offenders by far. My Beyerdynamic and EV dynamic mics had to be cranked up way past the usual necessary gain levels to even hear this buzz.

I'm pretty convinced that my Shures are legit as they seem to have the proper stuff inside and the correct weight. I forget the exacts now but there is plenty of info about identifying counterfits if you search around and the worst of the fakes probably are more prone to noise issues.

Where is your preamp knob set when you are recording? If you are up near the full range then you will start to get hiss on a cheaper interface . You don't have to turn up crazy hot with digital. Modern interfaces such as the Focusrites have plenty of grunt for most microphones. Heck, you could probably pick up a Saffire Pro if that mac has firewire for cheap. That's a great interface with good clean pre's.

(I'm not familiar with the Tascam, but a quick google finds a review complaining of bad hiss.

All equipment should be powered from isolated supply, the mains supply will feedback voltage ‘pops’ when fridge compressors kick in, but less aggressively the current of any main supply running around a room will be picked up on recording. Obviously work the SNR best you can, but a 2008 Mac will be adding to the issue.

Not sure why you would drag up a discussion from three years ago to add this???

While one can have noise problems from having audio gear on the same circuit as equipment like a refrigerator it is far more common (especially with beginners or those not all that knowledgeable about audio) to be stuff like poor gainstaging or even background noise in the room.

I run audio gear on the same circuit as my fridge which is probably fifteen years old and have zero issues with noise on the line and I'm running not just an audio interface but a 32 channel analog console and a whole bunch of analog outboard.

Not saying something like a fridge isn't sometimes an issue for someone but in most cases an isolated supply is not necessary to get a decent low noise recording.