How about the EV967? A better version of the 767 (a la senn 800 and 900) or something different?

Chris

I'd quite like to try the n/d967 myself based upon my experience with the 767. They are pretty affordable in the UK at £94. Could be some secondhand bargains to be had.

Can I change the head? Because good god it is awful.

That would make it sound different, and it'll be like that to get the singer as close as possible to the diaphragm, being that it's marketed for high GBF.

Chris

No one has yet mentioned the need for different stage wedge placement with SM58 and Beta 58 (or any other cardioid vs super/hyper cardioid mic). The hypers all exhibit it a significant HF node directly behind the mic. If you can't do wedge(s) out at 45 degrees from the rear, you'll add significantly to your feedback problems. A 58 has the opposite problem: wedge(s) out of the center line will be a problem. Something to consider.

I use 58/Sm86/835 with a single wedge directly behind the stand, and Beta58/Beta87A/845 with wedge(s) at 45 degrees each side as a starting point.

One old guy's experience...

HB

This of course is theoretically correct. But depending on the SPL on your stage and the size of your stage, particularly the ceiling height and distance it the back wall, it may machine practical difference.

I was involved in a lot of system measurements involving a number of popular live sound mics. Long story short, when it came to the beta58, it made no difference to gain before feedback whether the monitor was directly 180 degrees behind the mic or 120 degrees off axis. My conclusion was that there was enough level bouncing off the back wall and ceiling to neutralize and benefit from the mic pattern itself. I was working with a ceiling height of about 18 feet and about 16 feet to the back wall. YMMV

As long as you know the singer isn't going to adjust it you can get the wedge off (rear) axis by having the mic parallel to the floor, with the wedge down on the floor "behind" it.

Chris

Who is this singer? I don't believe I've had the pleasure, in 30 years or so...

and dboomer... I was speaking from my general experience, usually on shorter stages with lower ceilings, with relatively unteachable singers, who run the gamut of: point it as straight up as possible, then cup it like a rap star on the ballad, then turn it sideways to see the guitarist doing the harmony... like that. The pattern is the pattern, and the laws of physics aren't open to suggestion. Sometimes an OM5 or a BeyerDynamic M500 is the only solution.

If you can get it to work any-old-which-a-way... God bless you.

:-)

HB

Another thing that you may want to consider is that the Sennheiser e935 is actually made in Germany, while the Shure Beta 58A is made in Mexico or China...

Absolutely. You just have to consider which law of physic is primary.

My point was that sometimes the reflection off the back wall or ceiling is the dominant factor. I think a lot of people have experienced the "cowboy hat" factor too. In cases like this it wouldn't matter what pattern the mic was or how the monitors were aimed because the on axis pickup is the problem.

There is a perception that super-cardioid mics have better GBF than cardioid mics (or even omni). But you have to look at it on a case by case basis and pick the right tool for the job at hand.

Don't care for the e series mics, I find the plosive control non existent.

I sold my e935 because of the plosives. The sound was good and nice gbf. Bad thing: I could hear me walk on the stage xD... I tried different stands and mic holder

I own a e945 now. Have owned sm58, and e935. My dad has an e835. My favorite soundwise is probably the e935. But I kept the e945, because it is overall a better mic. Sounds great and rejects better for live use.

I was recently able to try the n/d967 and did a direct comparison with my n/d767a, JZ HH1, Sennehiser E838 and AKG D5.
I was very disappointed with the tone of the 967. I found it to be a very dark sounding mic. It really lacked detail compared to all my other mics.

not a fan of the beta 58. I own some but not a fan. It often sounds like it's running through a tube screamer or has a brittleness i'm trying to extract. Now the Beta 57 is a fine vocal mic actually.

I have some older e835 that i like most of the time. I have some older AT ATM41a that I really like. Most anything Beyer seems excellent.

Depends on the voice and type of music. Beta 58 might cut better for rock. 935 might be a better choice for female vocalist, jazz, something not so loud. I personally like the 935 a lot -- clear, smooth top end, feedback resistant, lack of holding noise. We have other mics that are better in some aspects but as an all-around mic that might be my favorite. I tend to use that with vocalists I know nothing about.

yeah, the little b57 works fine for live vocals. But really, put up an M69, or on some voices, an M88, or even one of their unidirectional ribbons, against most of the usual choices, and to my ear the Beyers usually will win out. They typically have lots of presence and detail without harshness, clarity in the mids, and fullness in the lows. What mic is best for what voice and style is of course situation dependent, but Beyers should not be overlooked, IMHO.

Sorry to post in an old thread, but which one of these would you prefer for recording vocals?

Are you talking live concert tracking type recording, or a legit studio thing? Most of the above will work fine at live shows... but I'd reach for my AT4050 or TLM193 or JolyMod NT-1 (K47 capsule and more "open" basket conversion), or a BeyerDynamic M500 for anything "serious" and with no live PA involved.

One old guy's opinion.

HB

Really don't mind a beta 58. Would reach for it for a male vocalist that needs a little more presence. That bump around 2.5k-5k helps when you have a guy who gets buried under bass and guitar in a mix to cut thru. Would say it has the complete opposite effect on a female vocalist with presence. Suddenly that eq bump becomes harsh and metallic really fast. At that point I reach for an e935 which is a warmer mic. I like it for higher voices that you want to mellow out to sit better in a mix. The mid range on the sennheiser is a lot smoother/flatter. Depending on the vocalist, if it's a guy who projects a lot and is super mid-rangy, I sometimes find myself getting too much out of the 700hz-1.5hz band and want to chop it up. Usually reaching for a beta 58 fixes that on it's own.

Wouldn't call one mic better. Just depends on the voice. But that's my thought process with the 2 mics. If you have both, you shouldn't really need anything else.

Thought I should update my comment above. It turns out that particular n/d967 was faulty as I've used a different one since. The 967 that I tried recently has decent presence and excellent feedback rejection. As a result I'm looking to try the newer ND96 at some point.

I totally agree with this though I now opt for the Telefunken M80 over the E935.

The Telefunken is also a great mic but very different to the Sennheiser E935. I prefer the M81 to the M80 as the M81 is flatter and takes EQ a little better. However, I do find that the M80/81 do require the singer to stay on the mic. Much like the Audix OM5/7. But the tone is excellent for sure and good gain before feedback as is also the case for the OM5/7.

Yes the singer needs to stay on the mic a lot more with the Telefunken mics. I generally use the M80 on lead vocal and M81 on backing vocals. Both are excellent mics! I thought the Audix mics sounded thinner and harsher than both the Sennheiser e935 and Telefunken mics when I tried them.

At the risk of being contrary, the ev 767 was recommended to me by someone I knew. He told me that it was higher gain and more feedback resistant than a 58. I tried it and yes, it was hotter and more rear rejection and initially is impressive, but soundwise, it lacked detail and was more "edgy" (not in a good way) than the 58. They were cheaper, but design/build quality isn't great. YMMV

Looking for recording. Wanted to use a dynamic mic, since I'll be recording in less-than-perfect environments. Thanks for the reply!

Thanks, this is very good info!

Just as an aside to this thread this video is an interesting example of the point I've many times tried to make in forums and more specifically threads like this.

The whole video is interesting (if a little bit long winded), however, if you skip to the end there is a performance where the vocalist is using a 58. This for me dispells the "myth" that there is anything wrong with a 58 in terms of sound quality.

https://youtu.be/EMLZl52az6g

Thanks for the video! Yeah, I definitely think that you can get some great vocals from the SM 58; it's just legendary! I'm planning on just buying one mic for the next little bit, and was looking for something versatile. The SM 58 would probably fit the bill, but I also found the Beta 58 and e935 pretty interesting, and was wondering people's personal tastes for recording with those mics.

I was listening to Alan Jackson sound checking at an industrial show in the old Nashville Convention Center about 10 years ago. I'd been invited to go listen to a d&b Audiotechnik rig that was deployed there, in a really crappy room (I was on a church plant team who were considering rehabbing warehouse space, and one of the aggregators with which we were dealing had spec'd one for our room... which was, and remains, a pretty crappy room with a great PA). Jackson stepped out on stage to do his bit, the band lit it up, as did he. I'd looked at the stage earlier and had noticed a Beta 58 at the "star" position.

It sounded fabulous. I played my share of Alan Jackson back in my DJ days through a small, reasonably hi-rez (Sx500s over subs, mostly) PA from CD sources, and was gobsmacked at how good his voice sounded right out of the box. It was, to be fair, his road rig that summer, and the PM5D had been completely set up with his show. But, gee whillickers. A 58?

So I asked the FoH guy how in the cat hair he got that fabulous sound through a B58. Without missing a beat, he said...

"Well... it's Alan Jackson..." Fair enough... great source material.

Then he turned and pointed to a double-wide rolling rack and said... "And those."






The rack was full of (if memory serves)... Avalon VT737SP Class A Tube Mic Preamps.

Just sayin'...

HB