Interview with DJ Swivel, aka Jordan Young
by The Gearspace.com Community
13th March 2023
Producer/mixer/musician Jordan Young - better known as DJ Swivel - graced our special Electronic Music Q&A series back in 2021 with a most excellent couple weeks in the hot seat. The Canadian Grammy®-winner has worked with an absolute who's-who of A-listers including Beyonce, Mary J. Blige, Jay-Z, Monica, Rihanna and Nelly. Much to the interest of our very gear-centric community he has also gotten into the audio plugin software development arena and was as game to talk about those as he was producing for some of the biggest names in pop & R&B. Swivel your chair round and check it all out!
Yes. It's experience which allows me to feel more confident with my intuition. It took years to get to that point, but it's like anything, practice makes perfect (though in the case of mixing, perfect doesn't exist), so I'll say, practice makes better. The more you mix, the more you experience similar things, and the more problems you have to solve. As you come up with various solutions (like how to make an 808 and a kick and baseline all work together), you start to develop your own little tricks and ways to solve problems. These add up and ultimately become your "style". So just keep mixing, you'll get there I promise!
- DJ Swivel
The honest answer is, it varies a lot. Sometimes it's 2 hours, sometimes it's 12 hours. Number of stems is a factor, but not the only factor. quality of recording, is the session structured or arranged in a common sense way, how much vocal treatment was already done (timing, tuning etc). But if I had to say an average I'd say 5 hours per mix.
- DJ Swivel
This really depends on the artist, and of course the microphone. But I tend to favor gentle compression on the way in. Medium attack and release, about 3db of gain reduction. You can always add more in the box, but it becomes a challenge to reclaim your dynamic range if you go too hard, so I always lean on the side of subtlety, unless of course the song invites a really aggressive sounding vocal.
- DJ Swivel
[top]Thank you for doing this, really big fan of your work! I got The Sauce, Swivel Spread and Swivel BDE, use them all the time, very efficient and fun tools, I hope there's gonna be more in the future.
Thanks Torinoscale for the support and great question! So I typically don’t master. If I do, yes I generally just master it to sound good, get it as loud as I can without damaging the dynamic range too much, and of course ensuring I’m not distorting anything. But I generally tell artists I work with, I’m not a mastering engineer. I can do a passable master, and I have, but I always prefer having someone to support that layer of a record who I trust implicitly.
Now when I send to mastering, I still have 2bus treatments. Usually some subtle Multiband compression, some minor stereo imaging, and of course come final tasteful EQ. But I will remove the limiter and give the mastering engineer 3-4db of headroom to work with.
Hope this answers your question! Thanks again for picking up the plug-ins!
- DJ Swivel
Thanks so much Jay, we try really hard on the UI side of things to make plugins as intuitive and usable as possible, so I'm excited you picked up on that!
While all of the plugins actually have a usage for vocals, I presume you mean The Sauce. Honestly, that was the first plugin we made, and I built it because when I decided I wanted to get into the space, I started going through my own sessions and looking for tracks that has 5 or 6 plugins daisy chained, and thought, if I can find a solution for this in 1 tool, it would be a huge convenience and advantage for users. At the time I had just finished working on The Chainsmokers and BTS music, and I was doing a lot of vocal chops at the time. Anytime I would make a vocal chop I would chain a pitch/formant shifter, with distortion, stereo imaging, reverb, delay, chorus etc. So I thought, why not incorporate all of those effects into a usable tool with great presets to immediately get to a complex sound. So that's what we did.
In the future, I really view The Sauce as a multi-FX tool so we'll definitely add more features and FX in future versions to make it a 1 stop shop for any creative sounds that can dramatically change the feel of a record.
- DJ Swivel
Awesome! And great question. I use all sorts of different tools. For a long time my go-to was always Decapitator. I remember being in Australia with Jay, Kanye and Beyonce. I was working with Bey, and Jay/Ye were working downstairs doing watch the Throne. And Mike Dean who was also there happened to be using Decapitator on a lot of things. That’s when I first started using it - around 2010-2011. For more nuanced distortion/saturation I would go to FabFilter Saturn. And to be honest I use Heat built in Pro Tools a lot on my final mixes, more for a subtle effect.
Then I decided to build my own with the goal of beating the existing tools I was using. We had to innovate in some way, so we launched BDE (Big Distortion Engine). Aside from just being a great distortion with all the features I would typically want, the innovation is, we developed what I like to call Dynamic preservation. I believe we’re the only ones doing it. I primarily use that feature in the case of drums. Often you want that gritty distortion sound but you still want your drums to be punchy and dynamic. So we allow you to apply the distortion effect and then reclaim the dynamics that are lost as a byproduct of how a distortion works. And of course you have full control over how much. It’s really cool and leads to some very interesting sounds. There’s a free trial, check it out on my site, and slap it on a drum bus. Crank the drive, and then lower the Range slider. Then you can play with changing the Speed slider which can give some very cool pumping effects - sort of like a compressor but applied as distortion instead of just volume ducking. Very cool sound.
I only build things if they’re going to replace an existing workflow and in order to do so, it HAS to be better. So now I primarily use BDE. I still use Heat, and Saturn in some cases where I want the LFO’s/movement it can provide.
- DJ Swivel
Ah I love this song. Was a great project to mix. I do spend a great deal of time addressing the stereo image on a song (partially why I designed Swivel Spread - I wanted a quick and easy multiband stereo imager). BUT I don't start my mixes in mono or anything like that, and I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it. Mixing is all intuitive for me. If there's some pads and pianos that feel like they're occupying the same space, aside from just EQ changes, I'll also address the stereo field and maybe Swivel Spread one much further out to create that needed separation.
I also don't have genre specific templates. I have a general mix template, and then everything is adjusted to taste. There's no sense in having a genre template IMO because each song is entirely different. The template is just meant to save time in setting up busses and FX. It's organized in a way to make my workflow more efficient which over the course of a 5 hour mix, would save me an hour or so.
Now specifically regarding Kiss And Run, I don't actually remember what I did. It sounds like she's got a lead vocal in the center, and some harmonies and backgrounds throughout. Those would likely be panned 100<>100. Often on a background bus in addition to the hard pans, I'll add Swivel Spread or at that time likely a Waves S1 imager and push the width to create more separation. I love playing with how wide various sounds are, and it's probably the most common tool I use besides EQ/Compression.
- DJ Swivel
Thanks for the question Crash! So my typical routine is I will receive stems (I used to only get Pro Tools sessions, now I almost never get Pro Tools sessions). I'll create a new session in Pro Tools, and import my mix template (available free on djswivel.com/products - just make a free account and download). From there I'll import all stems and make sure they're labeled correctly. Normally my assistant would do this but due to Covid it's been easier for me to handle myself since nobody comes to the house). Once everything is loaded and structured in a way I like, I'll have a listen to the demo, and reference the stems to make sure they're somewhat close. If not I start by leveling everything out to generally match the demo, then I'll begin mixing. In my world, pop, hip hop, or EDM, I will generally start with the drums. Kick & Snare. Then add hi hats and other percussion sounds, then I'll add the bass, and finally lead instruments, secondary instruments and then vocals (leads then backgrounds). Once I add vocals, I usually need to do some additional balance adjustment to the drums. Then once everything is close I just start focusing on all the little moments that require specific attention (vocal rides, delay throws, arrangement issues, transition issues etc). From there once the mix feels good, I'll add my "mastering" chain, reference the demo and some other similar songs, and if I feel good I'll send it off to the client.
I know this site is Gearspace but to be honest, I'm not a gear head. I call myself an ear-head. The most important tool anyone has in mixing is their ears (and a nice set of speakers/room comes a close second). So I try to focus on the human element. I don't get caught up in gear hype. I have a number of plugins that I love and have become a part of my workflow, and if I don't I just build them. All the plugins I create are things I use on a regular basis. And I of course have my mic (Slate VMS plus a few others) and preamp/channel strip - Neve Shelford Channel - to at least ensure I'm capturing good audio, but beyond that, I really don't care about the nuances of this EQ over that EQ. They all kinda do the same thing and if your ears are working right, you can get just about any tool to do what you want it to do if it's got the functionality. So my advice is don't stress gear quite as much (don't get me wrong, we all love new toys), try to focus on your ears. Understanding the sounds, interpreting them, and then determining a direction on what you'd like to do with them. That's the hard part, after that everything should come intuitively if you know what direction you're driving.
Finally your last question, if I am in a studio, a lot of times I just bring my laptop and my Apogee Duet, and just patch the outs to the board to hear everything on the big speakers. I've found a lot of other engineers are doing this as well! Removes the hassle installing your favorite plugs.
- DJ Swivel
[top]I would like your take on a few issues related to listening environments:
Let me try to address each question separately.
A) Hearing damage is definitely real and a lot of your producers seem to think they're invincible, so I have to stress, listening at a normal volume is very important. You clearly know this from your years on stage. That being said, I don't think about the level too much. I let my body tell me when it's too much. Mixing hip hop, I often start mixes loud to get the drums/bass hitting right, but then once I got to vocals/instruments/delays/reverbs, I dial it back to a normal listening level that gives me the necessary clarity. Then at the end of a mix I'll turn it up loud again just to feel what the end result is, and might make some subtle tweaks. When I do listen loud, it's in short periods so as to avoid as much hearing damage as possible.
B) My answer here will tie into your C question. I use Genelec 8351A's, with a Genelec 7370A subwoofer. They sound great, but what really made them my speaker of choice is, when I first got them I was mixing in a living room in an apartment in Los Angeles, about 6 years ago. And the room was not treated at all, next to a noisy refrigerator. Not an ideal setup by any means, and the Smart Active monitoring system Genelec has tuned the speakers for the awful room perfectly. The system has a microphone, and you set it up in your listening position and it calibrates your speakers perfectly. I still use them now even in my treated room. It's making less changes, much still helps get your room the last step of the way. 10/10 would recommend. They also have much cheaper speakers in their line which I would imagine do just as good of a job.
C) Haven't tried Sonarworks, but the Genelec system does work well. My guess is they use similar technology, so I'd assume Sonarworks does a pretty decent job too, but can't say for sure. I also prefer that my speakers' tuning is stored on the speaker, so I don't need a 2nd software layer running in front.
D) Slate VSX is great. I was part of their Beta pool and Steven is a friend, so I have some bias. But when I first heard them I thought it was an impressively good attempt at bringing a studio environment to Headphones. And I would imagine their software layer is only going to continue to improve, so I would highly recommend it for anyone who may travel a lot. For me, since I mostly mix in my room, I don't use them for their intended purpose of mixing, but I do use them as a way of referencing my mix in other environments. Don't have a car? No worries, I load up the car preset and I get a good idea of how my mix is translating.
- DJ Swivel
[top]Hiya Jordan, thanks again for joining us here!
Thanks for the great question! Although I've primarily been a freelancer, I have had moments in time where I was mostly working with one artist (Fabolous, Beyonce, The Chainsmokers), or the earliest moments of my career working for Duro on staff, so hopefully I can provide a nuanced answer.
When I first started my career in NYC, I was interning for Duro at his studio, so in that regard I was a staff engineer/assistant. One of the biggest differences between being a freelancer is I personally had zero control over who I was working with. Generally it would be Fabolous, or whichever client Duro was working with at the time. I would be told when a session starts, and I would be expected to arrive 30 minutes early, and stay until the artist decided it was time to leave. Sometimes that could be 6am, 10am, or sometimes the artist would stay for 24 or more hours so I would be there all day/night. One of the challenges with this way of working is, it becomes quite difficult to schedule the rest of your life, because you're pretty much on call at all times, and artists usually don't have an idea when they're going to wrap up for the day. Doctors appointments, family time, vacations, girlfriends, were very challenging.
As an assistant I was mostly cleaning, going on food/supply runs, and of course setting up and breaking down gear for sessions. I would also handle any gear rentals, ensuring they arrived and got back to the rental house on time, as well as printing of files and backing up all sessions. I would also handle a lot of technical maintenance (software updates, gear repairs etc). Once I became an engineer I would do all of this, plus be in the drivers seat for the session. It was a lot of work.
Once I became a freelance engineer, one of my first clients was Beyonce, and I went full time with her. This wasn't all that different, though my only job was handling files, managing sessions, and I would have an assistant who would support with setup and tear down of gear, food, cleaning etc. I would still bill for a day rate, I wasn't on salary, so in that regard I was still technically freelance, just with a little more job security...sort of. But even when you're full time, everyday is different. Some days Beyonce would know her hours, because she would have plans before or after the studio. And other days she would come to the studio and never leave - I can count a handful of 30+ hour sessions. No artist tells you ahead of time they plan to stay 30 hours straight. The average week would consist of waking up, checking my emails/texts, and usually have a text from her assistant with a start time for the day. I would try to arrive 30 mins before, though often these texts were so last minute that was impossible. There were a handful of times she arrived before I did. I was literally on call 24/7. I carried all the hard drives and managed backups, so once I arrived, I would set up the hard drives, make sure her mic chain was ready to go, and if there was any other context provided for the plans for the session, prepare anything else that was needed. Often those plans were delivered to me last. One day Kanye is showing up, another day Chris Martin, and I recall one time, 30 minutes before they arrived, I was told the entire Fela Kuti band from the Broadway show (20+ pieces), were coming in to record. So I round up every assistant I can find and we get to work setting up a very complex recording session. That's just how it goes, you learn to adapt on the fly, and be as productive and efficient as you can. Once she was done for the day, I would handle backups and go home, waiting for the next message for a start time. I would also handle all my own invoicing, and on several occasions would be asked last minute to travel with her. I found out about my trip to Australia about 5 hours before the plane was taking off.
With regard to job security, working with an artist like that was very helpful, knowing there's an ongoing project that is constantly being worked on, it meant I didn't have to spend much if any time setting up A&R meetings, making the rounds trying to get gigs. However, it's a double edged sword. Once Beyonce finished her album, she moved on, and I was left with very little going on. I worked for her on a near daily basis for 18 months or so. The issue is, all the regular clients I had before I began with her, they had to find replacements for me, because I was never available. That forced me to focus solely on mixing after I left Bey. There's not much more to be accomplished as a recording engineer after you work with someone like Beyonce, and it felt like I had to start again from scratch, so I made mixing my next challenge.
As a pure freelancer now, I work when I choose to, I take vacations when I need to, and generally just do whatever I feel like. That being said, I'm still very much active and I still find myself working 7 days a week. But it's much more relaxed and on my own terms, which is a necessary balance and freedom I needed as I got a bit older. I do have to handle all my my own relationships, business, goals, but I do have a team who supports my vision and plans, which is tremendously helpful.
It's also worth mentioning, every artist does it their own way. So my experience is entirely based around the artists I was specifically working with. I hope this answers the question!
- DJ Swivel
Generally speaking, I love a Telefunken ELAM 251 for female voices. It’s got a smooth top end which really helps female voices shine. Most often I’ll use a 1073 into a CL1B.
For rappers I can vary. But the Sony C800 has been my microphone of choice on rappers for ages. In the past I’ve also used a U87 which is less bright and can round out a rap vocal nicely at times. But the C800 is definitely more of the modern bright sound you hear on most rappers now.
As far as vocal recording tips, I posted some great videos on this subject on my YouTube page.
- DJ Swivel
[top]Making room for the Kick Drum in the mix:
This is a common issue, and there isn't really one way to solve it, but I'll get into a few of the things I try to do.
First, make sure you've got a hi pass filter on everything in your mix other than your kick and bass. You'd be surprised how often plugins will add low frequency information that might be low and subtle, but across a whole mix, these things add up. So make sure your instruments, vocals and FX - essentially anything that shouldn't fill those low frequencies, have the bass rolled off. This gives the maximum amount of room for your kick.
Next, try sidechaining your kick to your bass. Sonically this may not always be what you want, but use a fast attack, and quick release if you don't want any very audible pumping. Of course be aware of where your threshold sits. You can easily go overboard here. Play around with your attack and release to figure out the setting that will glue your kick and bass together best. You can also of course side chain the kick to other instruments like synths, guitars, drum loops, or even vocals. This will create even more separation and allow your kicks to really shine, however this often comes with the byproduct of that pumping sound which may or may not be what you want. That's entirely a creative decision for you, and I often aim for subtlety here.
What these few things will do is give your mix maximum room for the kick/low end, which in turn means you won't need to turn the kick up so loud to cut through.
Another thing to think about when having your kicks cut through is, how are they EQ'd? I tend to favor kicks that fill the frequency spectrum. So I look for kicks with a good punchy low end, but also some higher frequency attack. And if I have a great kick without the high frequency attack, very often I'll add it with another sample that's just a click high frequency sound. Sometimes I'll add it only in the choruses if I want more of a subby kick for the verses, but this is song dependent. Here's a video I did which may offer some additional help.
- DJ Swivel
Ahh great question, I'll try to answer what I can. So, at this time I wasn't still recording Fabolous. I had moved onto other projects, but Fab is always family, and Duro is my brother, so I got involved during the post production phase. Doing a bunch of editing, tuning, and other things to tighten up the audio before Duro mixed. If I recall correctly, Fabolous was always using a Sony C-800G microphone. I can't say for sure, but when you spend close to $10k on a mic, you're probably going to continue using it. I had setup Fabolous studio a few years prior, and so I would imagine he continued using the same mix chain he was set up with. I believe C-800G into an Avalon 737.
I can say for sure, everything was mixed in the box. This has been Duro's approach for as long as I've known him, since 2005.
As far as Duro gems, there's so many. To this day I still utilize mix templates based around Duro's (you can actually download them for free on djswivel.com/products - just make a free account and they'll be in your downloads section). I've modified them to suit me, but the core setup was something I learned from Duro. Duro also taught me the importance of listening, and tasteful balance. Over time, assisting so many sessions for him, I would absorb the things that he felt were great, and what he thought sucked in a mix. And so my mixing style is absolutely derived from the traits and aesthetic of what Duro does. Beyond that, Duro just taught me everything I know and understand about the music business. I can say without any doubt, were it not for Duro I wouldn't be where I am.
- DJ Swivel
“Euphoria” started as a demo from Candace. The piano, and some of the vocal melodies were there. But the track wasn't close to right. It was actually the first song I worked with her on, and I convinced her, this idea has potential, but in its current state it wasn't in great shape. So I asked her to send me stems and I would reproduce the entire song. First she thought I was scamming her, then eventually she relented and sent me parts.
I ended up using the piano and I think 1 synth, but scrapped everything else. I reproduced the entire beat, new drums, new chords, new sounds. The only thing that stayed close to the same was the opening verse piano/guitar combo, which is what I fell in love with when I first heard it. From there I took some of her vocal melodies and rewrote the lyrics and came up with a new chorus - Melanie helped with the chorus too. Then we sent it back for Candace to re-record (she was living in Michigan at the time - Many of those BTS songs we did were done remotely over Skype). She crushed the recording, at which point I did the final element which was the vocal chop in the chorus, using Candace's raw vocals. Then I pitched to BigHit. They took it, and re-wrote the lyrics in Korean, and also made the title Euphoria (our demo was called Time To Kill). After Jungkook cut the vocals, they sent it back to me to mix it.
- DJ Swivel
[top]Watching some of your videos on mixing that it seems you can tell exactly what a certain individual track needs, and get there quickly and efficiently. How do you think it is that you are able to hear exactly what an individual track may need in the context of the song? Is it just a matter of experience mixing lots of tracks, or was there something you learned from a mentor or other engineer? - Imhungry
Yes. It's experience which allows me to feel more confident with my intuition. It took years to get to that point, but it's like anything, practice makes perfect (though in the case of mixing, perfect doesn't exist), so I'll say, practice makes better. The more you mix, the more you experience similar things, and the more problems you have to solve. As you come up with various solutions (like how to make an 808 and a kick and baseline all work together), you start to develop your own little tricks and ways to solve problems. These add up and ultimately become your "style". So just keep mixing, you'll get there I promise!
- DJ Swivel
[top]What's the average time spent on say a pop mix - jimmydeluxe
The honest answer is, it varies a lot. Sometimes it's 2 hours, sometimes it's 12 hours. Number of stems is a factor, but not the only factor. quality of recording, is the session structured or arranged in a common sense way, how much vocal treatment was already done (timing, tuning etc). But if I had to say an average I'd say 5 hours per mix.
- DJ Swivel
Tube-Tech CL 1B
[top]Vocal compression settings while recording. The Tube Tech CL1B gets a lot of love these days. What are your favorite settings with this device? - Flospies
This really depends on the artist, and of course the microphone. But I tend to favor gentle compression on the way in. Medium attack and release, about 3db of gain reduction. You can always add more in the box, but it becomes a challenge to reclaim your dynamic range if you go too hard, so I always lean on the side of subtlety, unless of course the song invites a really aggressive sounding vocal.
- DJ Swivel
[top]Thank you for doing this, really big fan of your work! I got The Sauce, Swivel Spread and Swivel BDE, use them all the time, very efficient and fun tools, I hope there's gonna be more in the future.
Here's my two part question: You probably sometimes master the music you're working on yourself, do you aim at a specific target level (LUFS) or do you just make it as loud as possible (as long as it still sounds "good") What final limiter are you using if I may ask?
If you send a mix off to a mastering engineer, do you just deactivate the limiter on your 2bus and send it off, or is there a different workflow entirely? Do you mix into a (brickwall) Limiter? - Torinoscale
Thanks Torinoscale for the support and great question! So I typically don’t master. If I do, yes I generally just master it to sound good, get it as loud as I can without damaging the dynamic range too much, and of course ensuring I’m not distorting anything. But I generally tell artists I work with, I’m not a mastering engineer. I can do a passable master, and I have, but I always prefer having someone to support that layer of a record who I trust implicitly.
Now when I send to mastering, I still have 2bus treatments. Usually some subtle Multiband compression, some minor stereo imaging, and of course come final tasteful EQ. But I will remove the limiter and give the mastering engineer 3-4db of headroom to work with.
Hope this answers your question! Thanks again for picking up the plug-ins!
- DJ Swivel
[top]What inspired your Vocal plugin? - Jay Northall
Thanks so much Jay, we try really hard on the UI side of things to make plugins as intuitive and usable as possible, so I'm excited you picked up on that!
While all of the plugins actually have a usage for vocals, I presume you mean The Sauce. Honestly, that was the first plugin we made, and I built it because when I decided I wanted to get into the space, I started going through my own sessions and looking for tracks that has 5 or 6 plugins daisy chained, and thought, if I can find a solution for this in 1 tool, it would be a huge convenience and advantage for users. At the time I had just finished working on The Chainsmokers and BTS music, and I was doing a lot of vocal chops at the time. Anytime I would make a vocal chop I would chain a pitch/formant shifter, with distortion, stereo imaging, reverb, delay, chorus etc. So I thought, why not incorporate all of those effects into a usable tool with great presets to immediately get to a complex sound. So that's what we did.
In the future, I really view The Sauce as a multi-FX tool so we'll definitely add more features and FX in future versions to make it a 1 stop shop for any creative sounds that can dramatically change the feel of a record.
- DJ Swivel
[top]What are your favorite saturation/distortion plugins, and where are they used most often? - Mouls Vern
Awesome! And great question. I use all sorts of different tools. For a long time my go-to was always Decapitator. I remember being in Australia with Jay, Kanye and Beyonce. I was working with Bey, and Jay/Ye were working downstairs doing watch the Throne. And Mike Dean who was also there happened to be using Decapitator on a lot of things. That’s when I first started using it - around 2010-2011. For more nuanced distortion/saturation I would go to FabFilter Saturn. And to be honest I use Heat built in Pro Tools a lot on my final mixes, more for a subtle effect.
BDE Plug-In
Then I decided to build my own with the goal of beating the existing tools I was using. We had to innovate in some way, so we launched BDE (Big Distortion Engine). Aside from just being a great distortion with all the features I would typically want, the innovation is, we developed what I like to call Dynamic preservation. I believe we’re the only ones doing it. I primarily use that feature in the case of drums. Often you want that gritty distortion sound but you still want your drums to be punchy and dynamic. So we allow you to apply the distortion effect and then reclaim the dynamics that are lost as a byproduct of how a distortion works. And of course you have full control over how much. It’s really cool and leads to some very interesting sounds. There’s a free trial, check it out on my site, and slap it on a drum bus. Crank the drive, and then lower the Range slider. Then you can play with changing the Speed slider which can give some very cool pumping effects - sort of like a compressor but applied as distortion instead of just volume ducking. Very cool sound.
I only build things if they’re going to replace an existing workflow and in order to do so, it HAS to be better. So now I primarily use BDE. I still use Heat, and Saturn in some cases where I want the LFO’s/movement it can provide.
- DJ Swivel
[top]I listened to a bunch of mixes you did, and I want to ask you; if you can give some tips when widening tracks, mix instruments in the stereo field and such. I was wondering: Do you start with a mono mix? What software do you use? Do you have a sort of template for different genres? I really like the track "Kiss and Run" from Jenna Andrews, which you mixed, so maybe you can point out what you did there and why? - CrashMiauw
Ah I love this song. Was a great project to mix. I do spend a great deal of time addressing the stereo image on a song (partially why I designed Swivel Spread - I wanted a quick and easy multiband stereo imager). BUT I don't start my mixes in mono or anything like that, and I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it. Mixing is all intuitive for me. If there's some pads and pianos that feel like they're occupying the same space, aside from just EQ changes, I'll also address the stereo field and maybe Swivel Spread one much further out to create that needed separation.
I also don't have genre specific templates. I have a general mix template, and then everything is adjusted to taste. There's no sense in having a genre template IMO because each song is entirely different. The template is just meant to save time in setting up busses and FX. It's organized in a way to make my workflow more efficient which over the course of a 5 hour mix, would save me an hour or so.
Now specifically regarding Kiss And Run, I don't actually remember what I did. It sounds like she's got a lead vocal in the center, and some harmonies and backgrounds throughout. Those would likely be panned 100<>100. Often on a background bus in addition to the hard pans, I'll add Swivel Spread or at that time likely a Waves S1 imager and push the width to create more separation. I love playing with how wide various sounds are, and it's probably the most common tool I use besides EQ/Compression.
- DJ Swivel
[top]I want to ask you about how you approach a mixing job. Do you have a specific work routine? Where do you start, doing a mix? I imagine every situation is different, but maybe you can give some pointers on how to organize that? - CrashMiauw
Thanks for the question Crash! So my typical routine is I will receive stems (I used to only get Pro Tools sessions, now I almost never get Pro Tools sessions). I'll create a new session in Pro Tools, and import my mix template (available free on djswivel.com/products - just make a free account and download). From there I'll import all stems and make sure they're labeled correctly. Normally my assistant would do this but due to Covid it's been easier for me to handle myself since nobody comes to the house). Once everything is loaded and structured in a way I like, I'll have a listen to the demo, and reference the stems to make sure they're somewhat close. If not I start by leveling everything out to generally match the demo, then I'll begin mixing. In my world, pop, hip hop, or EDM, I will generally start with the drums. Kick & Snare. Then add hi hats and other percussion sounds, then I'll add the bass, and finally lead instruments, secondary instruments and then vocals (leads then backgrounds). Once I add vocals, I usually need to do some additional balance adjustment to the drums. Then once everything is close I just start focusing on all the little moments that require specific attention (vocal rides, delay throws, arrangement issues, transition issues etc). From there once the mix feels good, I'll add my "mastering" chain, reference the demo and some other similar songs, and if I feel good I'll send it off to the client.
I know this site is Gearspace but to be honest, I'm not a gear head. I call myself an ear-head. The most important tool anyone has in mixing is their ears (and a nice set of speakers/room comes a close second). So I try to focus on the human element. I don't get caught up in gear hype. I have a number of plugins that I love and have become a part of my workflow, and if I don't I just build them. All the plugins I create are things I use on a regular basis. And I of course have my mic (Slate VMS plus a few others) and preamp/channel strip - Neve Shelford Channel - to at least ensure I'm capturing good audio, but beyond that, I really don't care about the nuances of this EQ over that EQ. They all kinda do the same thing and if your ears are working right, you can get just about any tool to do what you want it to do if it's got the functionality. So my advice is don't stress gear quite as much (don't get me wrong, we all love new toys), try to focus on your ears. Understanding the sounds, interpreting them, and then determining a direction on what you'd like to do with them. That's the hard part, after that everything should come intuitively if you know what direction you're driving.
Finally your last question, if I am in a studio, a lot of times I just bring my laptop and my Apogee Duet, and just patch the outs to the board to hear everything on the big speakers. I've found a lot of other engineers are doing this as well! Removes the hassle installing your favorite plugs.
- DJ Swivel
[top]I would like your take on a few issues related to listening environments:
A) Monitoring level? Do you have a preferred SPL you like to monitor at? What do you do so you can work for extended lengths of time and not lose your ability to listen critically or cause hearing loss?
B) For those of us working in bedroom studios, what mid or near field monitors have you used that you felt gave a useful accurate balance at mid to low volume levels?
C) Do you find room correction software (like Sonorworks) useful?
D) Headphone mixing for small rooms or travel situations? Any suggestions? Have you tried the Slate VSX Headphone system? (No, I don't work for Slate) I noticed you have a VMS (I do too) and wonder if you've tried their virtual headphone set-up and, if so, what you thought of them. - XXXEsq
Let me try to address each question separately.
A) Hearing damage is definitely real and a lot of your producers seem to think they're invincible, so I have to stress, listening at a normal volume is very important. You clearly know this from your years on stage. That being said, I don't think about the level too much. I let my body tell me when it's too much. Mixing hip hop, I often start mixes loud to get the drums/bass hitting right, but then once I got to vocals/instruments/delays/reverbs, I dial it back to a normal listening level that gives me the necessary clarity. Then at the end of a mix I'll turn it up loud again just to feel what the end result is, and might make some subtle tweaks. When I do listen loud, it's in short periods so as to avoid as much hearing damage as possible.
Genelec 8351A'
B) My answer here will tie into your C question. I use Genelec 8351A's, with a Genelec 7370A subwoofer. They sound great, but what really made them my speaker of choice is, when I first got them I was mixing in a living room in an apartment in Los Angeles, about 6 years ago. And the room was not treated at all, next to a noisy refrigerator. Not an ideal setup by any means, and the Smart Active monitoring system Genelec has tuned the speakers for the awful room perfectly. The system has a microphone, and you set it up in your listening position and it calibrates your speakers perfectly. I still use them now even in my treated room. It's making less changes, much still helps get your room the last step of the way. 10/10 would recommend. They also have much cheaper speakers in their line which I would imagine do just as good of a job.
C) Haven't tried Sonarworks, but the Genelec system does work well. My guess is they use similar technology, so I'd assume Sonarworks does a pretty decent job too, but can't say for sure. I also prefer that my speakers' tuning is stored on the speaker, so I don't need a 2nd software layer running in front.
D) Slate VSX is great. I was part of their Beta pool and Steven is a friend, so I have some bias. But when I first heard them I thought it was an impressively good attempt at bringing a studio environment to Headphones. And I would imagine their software layer is only going to continue to improve, so I would highly recommend it for anyone who may travel a lot. For me, since I mostly mix in my room, I don't use them for their intended purpose of mixing, but I do use them as a way of referencing my mix in other environments. Don't have a car? No worries, I load up the car preset and I get a good idea of how my mix is translating.
- DJ Swivel
[top]Hiya Jordan, thanks again for joining us here!
Just wondering if you can describe a day or even a week in the life of being the staff engineer for a major artist... is it different to the freelance life, so to speak? What sorts of things do you find yourself working on on a regular basis? Did they "host" other artists as well that you worked on kind of on their dime? - Whitecat
Thanks for the great question! Although I've primarily been a freelancer, I have had moments in time where I was mostly working with one artist (Fabolous, Beyonce, The Chainsmokers), or the earliest moments of my career working for Duro on staff, so hopefully I can provide a nuanced answer.
When I first started my career in NYC, I was interning for Duro at his studio, so in that regard I was a staff engineer/assistant. One of the biggest differences between being a freelancer is I personally had zero control over who I was working with. Generally it would be Fabolous, or whichever client Duro was working with at the time. I would be told when a session starts, and I would be expected to arrive 30 minutes early, and stay until the artist decided it was time to leave. Sometimes that could be 6am, 10am, or sometimes the artist would stay for 24 or more hours so I would be there all day/night. One of the challenges with this way of working is, it becomes quite difficult to schedule the rest of your life, because you're pretty much on call at all times, and artists usually don't have an idea when they're going to wrap up for the day. Doctors appointments, family time, vacations, girlfriends, were very challenging.
As an assistant I was mostly cleaning, going on food/supply runs, and of course setting up and breaking down gear for sessions. I would also handle any gear rentals, ensuring they arrived and got back to the rental house on time, as well as printing of files and backing up all sessions. I would also handle a lot of technical maintenance (software updates, gear repairs etc). Once I became an engineer I would do all of this, plus be in the drivers seat for the session. It was a lot of work.
Once I became a freelance engineer, one of my first clients was Beyonce, and I went full time with her. This wasn't all that different, though my only job was handling files, managing sessions, and I would have an assistant who would support with setup and tear down of gear, food, cleaning etc. I would still bill for a day rate, I wasn't on salary, so in that regard I was still technically freelance, just with a little more job security...sort of. But even when you're full time, everyday is different. Some days Beyonce would know her hours, because she would have plans before or after the studio. And other days she would come to the studio and never leave - I can count a handful of 30+ hour sessions. No artist tells you ahead of time they plan to stay 30 hours straight. The average week would consist of waking up, checking my emails/texts, and usually have a text from her assistant with a start time for the day. I would try to arrive 30 mins before, though often these texts were so last minute that was impossible. There were a handful of times she arrived before I did. I was literally on call 24/7. I carried all the hard drives and managed backups, so once I arrived, I would set up the hard drives, make sure her mic chain was ready to go, and if there was any other context provided for the plans for the session, prepare anything else that was needed. Often those plans were delivered to me last. One day Kanye is showing up, another day Chris Martin, and I recall one time, 30 minutes before they arrived, I was told the entire Fela Kuti band from the Broadway show (20+ pieces), were coming in to record. So I round up every assistant I can find and we get to work setting up a very complex recording session. That's just how it goes, you learn to adapt on the fly, and be as productive and efficient as you can. Once she was done for the day, I would handle backups and go home, waiting for the next message for a start time. I would also handle all my own invoicing, and on several occasions would be asked last minute to travel with her. I found out about my trip to Australia about 5 hours before the plane was taking off.
With regard to job security, working with an artist like that was very helpful, knowing there's an ongoing project that is constantly being worked on, it meant I didn't have to spend much if any time setting up A&R meetings, making the rounds trying to get gigs. However, it's a double edged sword. Once Beyonce finished her album, she moved on, and I was left with very little going on. I worked for her on a near daily basis for 18 months or so. The issue is, all the regular clients I had before I began with her, they had to find replacements for me, because I was never available. That forced me to focus solely on mixing after I left Bey. There's not much more to be accomplished as a recording engineer after you work with someone like Beyonce, and it felt like I had to start again from scratch, so I made mixing my next challenge.
As a pure freelancer now, I work when I choose to, I take vacations when I need to, and generally just do whatever I feel like. That being said, I'm still very much active and I still find myself working 7 days a week. But it's much more relaxed and on my own terms, which is a necessary balance and freedom I needed as I got a bit older. I do have to handle all my my own relationships, business, goals, but I do have a team who supports my vision and plans, which is tremendously helpful.
It's also worth mentioning, every artist does it their own way. So my experience is entirely based around the artists I was specifically working with. I hope this answers the question!
- DJ Swivel
Sony C-800G
[top]What is your favorite microphone for female voices and the one for male rappers? Do you favor a microphone preamplifier to accompany this? Do you have any tips for recording vocals to share? - R.Weber
Generally speaking, I love a Telefunken ELAM 251 for female voices. It’s got a smooth top end which really helps female voices shine. Most often I’ll use a 1073 into a CL1B.
For rappers I can vary. But the Sony C800 has been my microphone of choice on rappers for ages. In the past I’ve also used a U87 which is less bright and can round out a rap vocal nicely at times. But the C800 is definitely more of the modern bright sound you hear on most rappers now.
As far as vocal recording tips, I posted some great videos on this subject on my YouTube page.
- DJ Swivel
[top]Making room for the Kick Drum in the mix:
1. Are you EQ'ing very carefully and severely in the low end to try and take away as much energy as possible whilst keeping punch? Or am I asking the wrong question here?
2. Do you mix with a limiter on the master? - alexvdbroek
This is a common issue, and there isn't really one way to solve it, but I'll get into a few of the things I try to do.
First, make sure you've got a hi pass filter on everything in your mix other than your kick and bass. You'd be surprised how often plugins will add low frequency information that might be low and subtle, but across a whole mix, these things add up. So make sure your instruments, vocals and FX - essentially anything that shouldn't fill those low frequencies, have the bass rolled off. This gives the maximum amount of room for your kick.
Next, try sidechaining your kick to your bass. Sonically this may not always be what you want, but use a fast attack, and quick release if you don't want any very audible pumping. Of course be aware of where your threshold sits. You can easily go overboard here. Play around with your attack and release to figure out the setting that will glue your kick and bass together best. You can also of course side chain the kick to other instruments like synths, guitars, drum loops, or even vocals. This will create even more separation and allow your kicks to really shine, however this often comes with the byproduct of that pumping sound which may or may not be what you want. That's entirely a creative decision for you, and I often aim for subtlety here.
What these few things will do is give your mix maximum room for the kick/low end, which in turn means you won't need to turn the kick up so loud to cut through.
Another thing to think about when having your kicks cut through is, how are they EQ'd? I tend to favor kicks that fill the frequency spectrum. So I look for kicks with a good punchy low end, but also some higher frequency attack. And if I have a great kick without the high frequency attack, very often I'll add it with another sample that's just a click high frequency sound. Sometimes I'll add it only in the choruses if I want more of a subby kick for the verses, but this is song dependent. Here's a video I did which may offer some additional help.
- DJ Swivel
[top]The Young OG Project. Can you remember any details about the creative approach going into doing this album? 1. Like what was the Mic Chain 2. Was it mixed in the box? 4. Care to share any gem's you learned from Duro (Ken Ifill; Profile: American mix engineer and Hip-Hop/R&B record producer. Also referred to as Supa or Super Engineer DURO) about Mixing/ Recording hip hop/rap? - stu2
Ahh great question, I'll try to answer what I can. So, at this time I wasn't still recording Fabolous. I had moved onto other projects, but Fab is always family, and Duro is my brother, so I got involved during the post production phase. Doing a bunch of editing, tuning, and other things to tighten up the audio before Duro mixed. If I recall correctly, Fabolous was always using a Sony C-800G microphone. I can't say for sure, but when you spend close to $10k on a mic, you're probably going to continue using it. I had setup Fabolous studio a few years prior, and so I would imagine he continued using the same mix chain he was set up with. I believe C-800G into an Avalon 737.
Avalaon VT-737SP
As far as Duro gems, there's so many. To this day I still utilize mix templates based around Duro's (you can actually download them for free on djswivel.com/products - just make a free account and they'll be in your downloads section). I've modified them to suit me, but the core setup was something I learned from Duro. Duro also taught me the importance of listening, and tasteful balance. Over time, assisting so many sessions for him, I would absorb the things that he felt were great, and what he thought sucked in a mix. And so my mixing style is absolutely derived from the traits and aesthetic of what Duro does. Beyond that, Duro just taught me everything I know and understand about the music business. I can say without any doubt, were it not for Duro I wouldn't be where I am.
- DJ Swivel
[top]Re “Euphoria” Hey Jordan, love this song! I've seen videos of how you built the beat for this.. Are there any techniques for how you got the synths and drums to really pop out in the mix? Did you build the entire beat while Candace was writing the top lineing. - LuXx
“Euphoria” started as a demo from Candace. The piano, and some of the vocal melodies were there. But the track wasn't close to right. It was actually the first song I worked with her on, and I convinced her, this idea has potential, but in its current state it wasn't in great shape. So I asked her to send me stems and I would reproduce the entire song. First she thought I was scamming her, then eventually she relented and sent me parts.
I ended up using the piano and I think 1 synth, but scrapped everything else. I reproduced the entire beat, new drums, new chords, new sounds. The only thing that stayed close to the same was the opening verse piano/guitar combo, which is what I fell in love with when I first heard it. From there I took some of her vocal melodies and rewrote the lyrics and came up with a new chorus - Melanie helped with the chorus too. Then we sent it back for Candace to re-record (she was living in Michigan at the time - Many of those BTS songs we did were done remotely over Skype). She crushed the recording, at which point I did the final element which was the vocal chop in the chorus, using Candace's raw vocals. Then I pitched to BigHit. They took it, and re-wrote the lyrics in Korean, and also made the title Euphoria (our demo was called Time To Kill). After Jungkook cut the vocals, they sent it back to me to mix it.
- DJ Swivel
