I got my u87 two years ago after obsessing over it for the longest because I knew it would give me a much better sound than my other mics. And it did.

Now I'm seeing major artists & engineers abandoning the u87 in favor of the c800 or 251.

I even saw a post on here saying engineers graduate from the u87 to other mics & how no one in Atlanta uses 87's anymore.

Why?

How much better are these mics compared to a u87?

And does it even matter?

Or is it worth spending $11K for a 251?

It's all subjective. a $50 mic might suit a particular singer and style more than a U87 - good mics tend to suit more singers. But no mic made a hit - take literally any hit ever made with a 250 or U87 and replace it with something else - even something cheap and it'll still be a hit - the engineer(s) and producer(s) would just have to work a bit harder.

Some mics might work better than others on one source and then not work so well on a different source. And within the category of the mics being discussed, there may be a difference but probably not enough of one to end up being overly noticeable in a final mix. Even if one mic sounds better than another, as long as the song is good, well arranged and well performed, it will still be a great song regardless of which mic ended up on the final mix.

The U87 and U87ai have been used on countless hit records and successful albums. How much better those would have sounded with a 251 is probably more of a nuance thing and probably would not have made those recordings all that much better if at all.

My opinions of course.

Depends on the singer.

Yes it matters.
If it didn't the artists, producers and professional recording studios wouldn't stock their studios with these expensive microphones.

Why do they do it?
Because not everyones vocal works with a specific microphone. Some microphones represents the vocals best. That's why its good to have a collection you can switch for a specific vocalists.

For Boom Bap Rap the U87 is still my first choice for most MC's, because its the sound of the 90's.
For Trap, mumble, Bronx Drill, Jersey Beat, Reggaeton and every other more modern sounding rap style, the clearer sounding microphones (C800G, Manley Ref C, Chandler Redd, 251) work better to match the more modern/ digital production sound.

I agree.

People in Atlanta still use U87s. People don't "graduate" from mics, they aren't a college. Like the previous dudes well said, different mics for different purposes.

Also, sometimes artists just get bored. It happens.

Future used to record exclusively with the U87ai, into 1073 into CL 1B, tho I have seen some recent vids of him using the C800G. Have also seen somewhat recent vids with the U87. You can hear the difference between the vocals in DS2 and his most recent album (different engineers too).

examples:





in the studio:





For what it's worth I love the sound of his vocals going into a U87, I like the atmosphere of the mixing on DS2 combined with that slightly more understated vocal sound. it's a classic chain, what's not to love. the vocals on the new tape are definitely more in your face, that high end presence on the 800 forces you to pay attention, but it ain't hittin for me quite the same. it does sound great w his voice too, but it's just so dominant that the songs feel less musical to me than ds2

in the interest of full disclosure, I did pick up a c-800g to supplement my u87ai... i think, as thrill said, it comes down to the style of music your clients want to make. that high end presence is def en vogue now, so from a business perspective, maybe it makes sense to invest. if it's just you recording, use whichever mic you like more. if you don't wanna break the bank as bad but you still want some of that sound, you might like the manley ref c. i know of at least one major label rapper that has one

Except for Neumann College.
Where I graduated with a B.S.
Chris

Doesn’t it make sense to rent time in a studio with this $11k mic you are thinking of buying so you can audition it? What does two hours in a studio with a deep mic locker cost these days?

Not available in my area.

Obviously Future got the C800G...
To sound more Present.
Chris

Future was one of the reasons I decided on the u87. After Seth died, I started seeing him use the c800. more.

You can definitely tell the differences in mixing styles between DS2 & the new album. The vocals are much more tucked into the beats on DS2.

I thought about the ref C but its not drawing me in like the 87 did.

The 251 is definitely catching my eye.

you went crazy w this one

what do you like about the 251?

Copying other artists is always key. But at the end of the day your own ears are the final judge.

the sound of it is insane

Without wanting to rip too hard on modern music - does it matter what mic you use if you then completely ruin the tone, delicacy and human touch with autotune? That changes the sound and feel more than ANY mic.

As some of you may have noticed in my posts...
I'm slanted old school on the Autotune thing.

But my limited understanding is-yes...

There are some instruments sometimes pitched-ahem- not to standard tuning. And then a vocal might need to be "adjusted".
(this was via Moderator Psycho Monkey BTW)

Otherwise no Melodyne Mercy. Let alone the Audacity of Autotune!
(unless it gets past 3AM)
P.S. Does the OP have any audio clips of their own to share?

Get a soyuz or Josephson.

As others already said, it is a matter of matching the vocals you're recording.. with some vocalists mic X is great with other vocalists mic Y is better, as well as the production goals.. and ultimately a matter of taste too.

If you're referring to the Telefunken USA clone (because telefunken USA just bought the name and build clones like everybody else), then I'd say that 11K are NOT worthed... but this is personal, of course.

If you want a close-to-original top end, I'd look for a 250/251 that use a Haun capsule.

A BSA M250 is for sure a good start..(these are great and go for about 3k)..
but they also have the RS2 model (BSA RS2) which should be the 251 "replica" accurate model.. for 5.5k is a bargain when compared to other manufacturers.

I'm not sure what capsule is Flea using in their recent 251 clone..
might be worth to check out.

I'm in no way connected to the companies mentioned here, nor do I have any financial benefits..just to make this crystal clear.

I hope this helps,



Cheu

Wow, a mic that looks like a bottle of wine. Now there's a concept...! And no cable to boot.

:-)

Is there a mic that looks like a line of coke? Oh wait, Mac probably already made that and it sounds like shit and comes with a proprietary connector. Never mind, I’ll stick to my old German mid-tier mics as usual…

personally I don't think it gets much better than the 87, once you're at that level of quality, you should be looking at room acoustics, because the mic isn't going to take any prisoners, I think microtech gefell make some of the best sounding bright mics, such as the M930, also look at the austrian audio OC818, great sounding warm but bright mic and extremely versatile, they are very reasonably priced alternatives.

As others have said it's really dependent on the source. Ive used a 251 on some people that sounded amazing. The same 251 I thought sounded not so good on others. TBH, the u87 MAY be more versatile than the 251 because it'll work well on a more variety of people and instruments. The difference is that when the 251 works, then nothing is better. Then where it shines and gets it's reputation. Not all 251's sound the same as well.

Warm Audio's take on the 251 is $850. Much easier on the wallet.

I was just listening to the WA-251 on voiceover vs the cu29.



Nice body to it. (test starts at 2:01 in the video)

After I posted I was like "I mean it IS the high end forum..." but people post shoot outs for a reason. If it gets you most of the way there, how worth it is the other 10k?

Based on Vincent Ricciardi's recent initial comments on the ADK Cremona... I'd tend towards that over the Warm. Cheaper too!

The first 251 Warm I tried was quite anemic.
The next two were better than that, but dog gone it-that's an incredibly hard mic style to get at/near right. (Chad @ Signal Arts is good to talk to about
the Warm microphones BTW)

IMHO you'd also be better off just getting the Heiserman Type 19, with the CK12 style capsule,
whenever that comes out. Not a tube, but under $1000 estimated Street price.
Chris

OP, have you listened on Audio Test Kitchen.

To my ears the T'funk 251 is one of the best sounding mics on that site.