Hi all,

I've been having some latency issues when recording lately. Here are the specs of what I'm using:


- 2013 iMac with 16GB of ram and a lot of other upgrades, its a pretty quick machine.
- Audio Interface: Focusrite Scarlett 18i20
- Midi Interface: Motu Midi Express 128
- Daw: Propellerheads Reason 7

Basically what I'm trying to do is use my Future Retro 777 as sequencer which connects to my other synthesizers like my Juno 106. I'm using Reason as the master clock, whenever I hit play the timing gets out of sync pretty quick.

I've adjusted the buffer size and audio/midi latency to multiple scenarios and it still continues to go out of sync.

Any help is much appreciated.

Hmm, not sure since I don't have Reason or the Future Retro 777, but maybe try other master/slave combinations if possible or see if you still have issues if you sync your synths directly to Reason/Future Retro to narrow down where the problems are happening in the chain.

I have had some difficulty with Midi-sync setups so I feel for you.

Are the issues only happening when you record or is it every time you start reason running? Is it just the midi which goes out of time or do you mean that the midi is out of time with the recorded audio?

It sounds like the clock sent by Reason is operating in song mode rather than pattern mode. Pattern mode sends out a clock signal at the start of the bar where as song MIDI clock syncs to the arrangement playback. Have you tried adjusting the clock type in Reason?

Yeah, if I use my Future Retro as the Master clock, everything stays in sync but thats really not what I want to do since all of my synths are connected to use Reason as the master.

It happens if I start recording or if I'm just hitting play. When I have my midi channel selected, the audio that is coming out of the audio channel is out of sync. So I can't figure out if its my Motu Device or the Focusrite that has a latency issue.

I wasn't aware that there were different clock modes in reason, do you know where that's at? Are you referring to when you are in block mode? I've tried just playing a 4 bar loop in block mode to make it consistent and its a little better but it just keeps slipping out of sync.

Is it possible to record both the midi data and audio so you can check which is late/early in relation to each other.

Is the difference constant or is it more like jitter where it is always changing?

Its a pain - often times software seems to struggle as clock master and is the reason for devices like the Innerclock Sync-gen, ACME-SND4 and Expert Sleepers solutions. ES announced the USAMO device recently which might be able to help with stabilising the clock sent from your PC, sadly it won't be able to ensure the midi you send back into the PC is accurate though - I think only the Sync-gen does this.

Did you try Deepthread's suggestion, seems like he knows a bit more about Reasons clock system.

I can try recording both at the same time. Either way, it sucks because it means its one or the other or couldn't it just be the master clock from Reason that isn't making it constant?

It seems like its moreso jittery, sometimes it seems like its almost in sync and then it will just get way off beat.

I'm curious about the Innerclock Sync-Gen, is it able to sync a ton of devices together? To me, it makes since for your DAW to be the master clock because thats where all the recording is happening and all of my effects sync to the tempo. I am mainly just wanting to make sure that my drum machine (xbase 999) is synced to the Future Retro 777. The 777 is what I use to create interesting patterns of notes with the rest of my synthesizers.

I don't know what he is talking about with different clock modes, I think that's only in Ableton.

Yeah, the Sync-gen works using a special plug-in from inside your DAW which creates a clock from an audio pulse. This audio clock is then sent out from your DAW and translated by the Sync-gen hardware into midi-clock which in turn is sent to your connected devices. Since this clock is sent over audio it incurrs the exact same latency as your audio, hence they are in sample accurate sync. I think it has 5 seperate midi outs and 5 DIN sync outs so multiple devices is no problem. Pricey but seems like it could be worth it.

Man, this stuff just gets so complicated. I feel like if I was using Ableton, I would be able to sync all of this together really easily.

Not too sure about that, I have read many posts from people who have similar issues using Ableton too! I know what you mean though - you would just kind of assume that your DAW sequencer should be capable of ,well, sequencing stuff without problems.

I use Cubase but have it slaved to an MPC using MTC (timecode). Trying to sync anything to the Cubase clock is a total disaster. Using an external clock is the inly way it will stay in time. Luckily the audio and midi are pretty tight, perhaps because my interface is the same for both, not sample accurate but tight enough.

I really hope advances are made in this area of sequencing. I heard that the whole midi protocol is in the process of being updated with improved timing being one of the things at the top of the agenda - heres hoping!

So I figured out that it's a midi latency issue. I think it has to do with my MOTU midi express 128. Seems like its pretty jittery and I also have a lot of hanging/stuck notes. I'm curious if the sync gen pro II can solve these issues and have everything sync together. Not sure if it even works with Reason 7 though.

Ok, I wouldn't give up yet though! That MOTU unit looks like it should be capable enough. Things might not be sample accurate like the Sync-gen ect but it should be able to give you a workable sync imo. Sounds like something is wrong if your getting stuck notes and drifting sync like this.

Im guessing your setup is:

Reason -> Clock via USB -> Motu 128 -> Clock via Midi5pin -> Future Retro

Are you sending clock to each individual device, Xbase..ect, direct from the Motu or out from the Future Retro?

Are you sending other midi data apart from Clock from Reason to the Motu?

Try to see if you are blending the clock signal with other data at any point.

Yeah, something definitely doesn't seem to be right. I've tried connecting the MOTU directly to my iMac and also through a USB hub and the problem still occurs.

I've attached an image that shows my current set up minus all of my other synthesizers since these are the two that are essential to get figured out.



The way Reason works is, you can only send master clock from Reason to 1 device. It doesn't let you send it to multiple devices. So currently I have Reason sending it's master clock the XBASE 999 which then is sent to the Future Retro 777 (see picture for reference)

I don't believe I'm sending any other kind of data, I'm just using Reason to set up midi/audio channels for each synthesizer to record directly into it.

Tbh, i always had issues with reason and external hardware. Or even reason as a slave. It would work for two hours. I would leave it for a break and when i came back it was unusable again. Never had issues with ableton. I know lots of people do but i found that a lot of times it's a matter of settings. I used to sync up a normal kick kick pattern with an outboard playing the same straight pattern. Move the delay adjustment until they were perfect and save the settings. Tbis would be more effective with lower grade interfaces. But it works just fine. Not sure if reason has something like external hardware instrument like ablton has.

hmm, must be really annoying, thats some enviable kit you've got to play with. such a pain its not going smoothly.

So Reason can't send clock to more than on one channel? So your pretty much forced into sending clock using midi thru chaining. Thats a shame - I have heard that daisy chaining clock can lead to problems further down the line, but still this is just over one thru instance so it really shouldn't be so bad.

Does the Xbase go out of sync too or just stuff sequenced by the Future Retro?

I know man, it's very frustrating. I'm to the point where I just want to hire a professional who does this kind of stuff for a living and have them set it all up perfectly for me.

Nope, unfortunately one of the downsides to Reason is only sending clock to one channel. I wish it worked like Ableton in that way. Yeah, I've heard the same, I'm wondering if a Midi Solutions quadra thru box would be helpful? I've heard good things about them in keeping everything in sync.

Yeah, the xbase goes out of sync as well when I have it's midi channel selected. But like I said, when I just am running the audio from the two devices, they are both in sync fine.

Thru box might help, maybe, but first I would want to try every configuration to try and isolate the culprit.

I would probably disconnect everything and try the sync from Reason with one device at a time with no other data or devices, remove as much complexity as you possibly can. If nothing manages to sync to Reason in even the most basic setup then the thru box is not likely to have an impact. You need to identify if its Reason or the Motu or the way stuff is connected. You don't want to waste time and money on stuff that might not help at all.

Some Factors to consider are:
1. Quality of Reason clock signal
2. Midi cables (working and short as possible)
3. Motus ability to transmit clock
4. Each devices ability to sync to Reasons clock (sync algorithms can vary)
5. The clock signal itself must be as clean as possible (not shared with other midi data)

Probably more but i'm forgetting right now but you get the idea, reduce to as simple as possible and test.

Thanks for the suggestions and help, really appreciate it. I'll be doing some troubleshooting tonight. Unfortunately, some of my midi cables are like 15ft and I cant really get around that since my midi interface is on one side of the room and the xbase/frr777 are on the other..maybe i need to move those to the side closest to the midi interface.

Think I got it figured out, I installed a new MOTU Midi Driver they just released yesterday and the midi latency seems to be gone now.

Excellent News! Happy sequencing!

Thanks man! Appreciate the help.