Read the info, saw all the youtubes, and heard nothing but good things about it.
I see how it's a fun way to make step sequences and have hands-on control over all these parameters.
But other than the intuitive interface that allows this fun editing - what are its adventages over software seq such as cubase?
In cubase you can automate pretty much anything, you have control over everything (of course there are other things such as audio recording that the cirklon isn't even intended to do), etc.
So what can the cirklon do that soft seq can't?
And do you think 990£ is a reasonable price for what it does?

As if it needs more...but much better timing (presumably) due to no USB and multiple MIDI OUTs. It's capable of being used as a live sequencer.

It's the apex of the dedicated hardware sequencer, and as such offers much the same benefits of the sequencing portions of the MPC, RM1X/RS7K, Electribes, etc. It just lacks the sampling capabilities of a lot of those units because it focuses on MIDI.

Only if you care about timing and having an intuitive, hands-on interface. If you're comfortable with less accurate timing and using a mouse for everything then the Cirklon is probably more frustration than benefit.

From what I have seen(and Cirklon owners are welcome to correct me if I am wrong) it offers really flexible "analogue" style sequencing. In that you can have note info, velocity, CC's, and other info either tied strictly to the bar, or you can use alternate step lengths to create polyrhythmic patterns that would be difficult/impossible in something like Cubase. It also has a strong song mode which means you can do more than string a few loops together.

The other thing is that it can interface MIDI and CV, so you could use it as the bridge between a midi set up and vintage analogue/modular. Since it has 16 CV outs, 8 gate outs, 5 midi i/o busses, and Din Sync it can sit as the center of a studio and interface with everything. Because the software has so many features, the same sequencing and LFO possibilities would cost way more to implement in modular hardware(plus it would more difficult to sync everything to clock *and* it would be impossible to have all the modulation values change at precise times while moving through a chain of patterns in song mode).

At the moment I can't justify the expense of one, but if I had the money I would snap one up in a heartbeat. As for the price, it is expensive, but there is NOTHING on the market that does what this unit does. Obviously it would be cheaper if Roland mass produced 25,000 and sold them at Guitar Center, but for a boutique product for an extremely small market it is a reasonable price. I've never touched one, but I imagine the build quality is solid.

AFAIK (I don't own one yet) the CVIO is all optional, so the base model Cirklon is MIDI only.

The MIDI SEQ BOX V4 is probably close, but well you can't really buy one either.

just a note to say that, depending on the system you can get accurate timing on a PC. for example if you purchase a PCI midi card you then negate the whole usb issue, ie next to no lag time. i myself use usb midi with edirol drivers on a windows xp system. there's pleanty of lag but the jitter is tiny, certainly tight enough for me.

I've no doubt that it's theoretically possible, but you're not going to plug and play to < 1ms jitter. PCI MIDI cards with Win7 drivers and multiple MIDI ports are practically non-existent.

So, since the cirklon focuses on that area of experties - i guess it can be an addition to a setup, and not a replacement.
It says it can sequnce vst's as well. So how does it work in a setup where it's used for step sequencing a bunch of analog synths and a bunch of vst's? Assuming the vst's need cubase as a platform, and if i'd want to use a program like xfer nerve for sequencing its own beats - how does it all fit in/interact?

yea i've heard win7 is a bitch. which is a big reason why i'm stagnating here on xp!..

on my system, i can plug a simple soundblaster in and have ultra tight midi if i want. it gives me an average total send+receive time of 0.4ms and a maximum jitter of 0.1ms.

ps there are a few options if you want PCIe midi.

It is capable of being used as a live sequencer. But that is not really the actual intent. The Cirklon is only able to have one song in the memory at a time. In order to set up a live set one would need to create all parts for all songs in the same song and then break them up into sections and arrange them into several scenes.

Not quite. The basic model has the follow connectivity:
Midi via 5 in/out ports.
Midi over usb.
Din sync port.
The CVIO BOB is optional.
There is also a DinSync Demuxer for triggering analog drum units at some point in the future.

Its not an additional piece to my set up. It is the centre. It pretty much controls everything in one way or another.

If you wanted to use it to sequences VST's and analog gear at the same time you might have a config something like this.

Juno 106- Out Midi port 1
Master Controller- In & Out port 2
Vst- Midi over USB
Modular Synth- CVIO

This is correct...but to expand a little on the midi over USB:

You would run your VST host (Cubase, Sonar, Logic etc). Fire up your VST inside your host. Set your channels appropriately, and then the Cirklon will play it's midi notes,and controller information through your VST.

Pretty easy to set up and run.

So the Cirklon and run VST, a modular synth setup, sync a DIN sync drum machine, and 5 midi devices all at the same time.

Of course if you daisy chain midi devices, the number increases to 80 (5x16) Midi devices at once.

Correct. What Cirklon does it does really well. The hands-on workflow of some of the HW sequencers is fantastic compared to Cubase/Logic/Live/etc... But if you try to edit arrangements, it's usually quite tedious compared to software sequencers.

HW sequencers offer a very different workflow. You either like it or not. Usually it's super fun to create loops using HW sequencers. The workflow is just so much fun and feels awesome. A grownup version of a childhoods playground, so to speak...

The only thing missing from the Cirklon is the ability to transpose a pattern from a keyboard. If it had that it would be perfect.

But Kraku is right...for a certain type of creation and a certain type of workflow.

my favorite part of the Cirklon is how easy it is to mix different time signatures and clock divisions. Each track has its own time base and length. And this is easy to set up. You can even modulate it with another track!

The interface also feels very solid and fast to use. There is still lots of room for improvement but what it is now is a very creative musical tool.

So basically, at the end of the day i would still need cubase to edit a complete track, at least when it comes to the audio stage, mixer/fader automation, sound processing etc.
The cirklon can be the main tool to build the melodic or rhythmic foundations of a track - and specifically electro/tech oriented stuff. Not too sure how well the cirklon can be in a "regular" pop track, or what can it contribute to an atmospheric soundtrack.

I still edit with my Ableton, I use the Cirklon to generate ideas and layered sequences. Its easy to edit the Cirklon patterns, but arranging and mixing I would personally do in a DAW.

I have actually done atmospheric stuff on the Cirklon so I wouldn't say it is limited to any particular genre of electronic. But it is clearly designed by a person who loves techno. Here is a ambient/atmospheric track I wrote on the Cirklon.


The way it handles polyphony is a little different. Either you get patterns that are linear sequences with polyphony or you can put the pattern into P3 mode wich is where the real fun begins. P3 mode can do up to 4 voices but is by default monophonic. P3 mode is also completely modulatable and can interact with other tracks.

What I like about Cirklon is it can make loops evolve and sound quite organic. You can set a step to play, say, C5 but leave a 35% probability that it plays a G4 instead, or have it grab a note from another track that could have different pattern length and run in a different order. You can randomize note, velocity, gate, tie etc. flags for each step with different probabilities and force randomized notes to a custom scale. You can run a short pattern and have its values like velocity or CC# increase slowly over time... I guess this gives a new flavor to the cliché that electronic music is made by pressing just one button.

Here's a track I made while learning to use Cirklon. The techniques are explained in detail on the SoundCloud page.

Hmmm. I wonder how/if it will fit my rig. The vermona perfourmer has only one or two incoming cc messages. So if a cirklon controls it - it can only affect pitch and note length. Adding the cv inputs on the perfourmer only gives cv access to pitch...
The GRP A4 has a very advanced step sequencer of its own. But it does have cv in for the filters.
Hmmm...

Does the cirklon have control over swing percentage (like on the dsi Tempest)?

Of course it can control swing. : ) You could even modulate the swing using aux events.

I would suggest you download the manual as well as the OS update notes in order to get an understanding of how the Cirklon operates and what it is able to do. I was in the first production run, at that time there was no manual for the Cirklon. I spent some time going through the P3 manual to help me understand what it's all about and help me make a decision.

Sequentix Music Systems - home of the Cirklon hardware sequencer

Potentially yes but the main difference with the cirklon is the ability to create sequences which were impossible to play or think of and as member haven mentioned, inter modulation of tracks is wicked and create variations impossible to imagine.
If you have a collection of synths/vst and want to monitor/lead them all at the same time from one place with a great timing , the cirklon is a must...

I listened to more "cirklon oriented" tracks, and i see the potential. It is truely amazing piece of gear.
It's just a bit pitty - as i mentioned before - that my analog synths (vermona perfoumer & GRP A4) can't be controlled by the cirklon beyond note pitch and length. All the cc comands and automation possibilities - if i get a cirklon some day - will only be rellevant for my vst's. And that's a shame since my analogs are/will be my main tool for basses, leads and sequences, while vst's are something i usually use for samples, synth pads and such...

Spoinkel that track is fantastic! Very Carl Craig via Underground Resistance. Beautiful. Will listen again.

As far as I know, it was always intended to be a live sequencer.
You just dont use song mode and use it like a P3.
That's why it has the resync settings and most things can be done without stopping.

I thought so too until I read one of Colin's posts on the Sequentix forum. Then it made sense to me as to why it only holds 1 song at a time.

I could be wrong though. Maybe I should dig around the forum to see if I can find that post...

That said, it absolutely can be used in a live situation. Just don't use song mode as you said.

Wow, this thread and Spoinkel's track are the first thing I have heard/read that's made me interested in the Cirklon.

Damn! Now I want one.

I just got my Cirklon w/ BOB, and I'm wondering what to do with my Schrittmacher and RS7K. Anyone else use these together and if so, what's your config?

if ou havent allready, sell Scmittmasher and Rs7k. Get a sampler and more synths instead. no need for more sequencing if you have cirklon.

How do you like the Cirklon so far? You had for about a month or so now correct? Is it what you expected? Worth the wait? Anything you feel is missing?

As well, perhaps Gringo Starr might answer these questions too. If I recall correctly GS had not ever used a sequencer prior to the Cirklon. I know we had a couple PM's about it last year before you recieved it.

I ended up selling the RS7K, but I'm holding onto the Schritty until I'm positive that it can be duplicated by Cirklon. It took me a _year_ to find a Schritty on sale in the US. But having all those knobs is very appealing.

If anything I might ditch it if I go full analog and get an Oberkorn =)

You make the point really well.

I know you have a thing for timing. Or you have timing issues in you system. Whatever it may be. I recall you posted you would like to know how accurate the Cirklon is. You might be interested to know that a Cirklon has landed at InnerClockSystems. So I am sure it will be poked and prodded with all manner of timing tests. I'll let you search out the results of those tests on your own...As its not a concern for myself currently.