I currently have an old m audio Midi Sport running midi for 4 hardware synths, and a couple others using USB direct to computer.

Things keep growing and I'm out of midi. I need some more space. But my setup currently works just fine. I'm wondering, will there be any issues if I add something like a Mio XM (iconnectivity) and run both interfaces at the same time? Should I just be able to add another one and go?

Is there any reason I should get the Mio XL, and have all my stuff running through it instead? Any benefit?

Get a midi patchbay. Most people don’t need anything fancy, spend $50-200

Many 90s models have 2-4 in and up to 8 outs.

To directly answer your question, no there are no problems with just adding more Midi interfaces rather than replacing the one you have with a bigger one.

However, you may find that different interfaces have different latency and potentially act a little different for midi clock (as I have found).

I was using 3 different interfaces on my last setup (RME UFX two midi outs, midiman 2x2 and a single midi out from an old AudioKontrol1) - the MidiMan seemed a bit particular and I would end up with stuck notes on my older midi gear) - I'm now using just the RME UFX and an old MOTU MidiExpress (which has 8 outs) and it's much simpler and consistent

Ya I wondered about that... Mine seems pretty solid. But maybe it'll be tighter with all going through the same thing.

I've been testing a few USB MIDI interfaces recently. The Midisport ones seem to be based on early USB tech. About 5ms latency and bad jitter, up to 10ms at the worst in my tests. Maybe they improved this in the Anniversary ones but I wouldn't want to bet on that. The modern interfaces from CME, ICON, Miditech (Midiface) and ESI measure a lot faster. I think even those generic 4x4 ones you can find on Ebay and Amazon would be faster. I've got a DigitalLife branded one of those and I wouldn't trust it for complicated stuff (or clock) but for simple note messages it seems nippy. The CME U6MIDI Pro is the best cheap one, easy to find at Amazon.

Check out this screen grab of a Midisport vs an Icon interface. If you look at the total time to sent 5000 note on/offs, the Icon is twice as fast. I've had it down to 13/14 seconds on an ESI.

I checked the MIDI on my old Audiophile 2496 PCI card recently too and that couldn't keep up with the new USB ones. Quite surprised about that.

What do you mean by "I'm out of midi"? Each MIDI output can carry 16 MIDI channels and control 16 different synths. Just use the MIDI thru on your synths or get a simple inexpensive thru box.

You don't need to use a dedicated MIDI out on your interface for each of the synths you have. Just daisy chain them using MIDI thru!

hmmm. seriously? I can daisy chain all my synths, into one in /out, and it'll all work fine? for some reason, I highly doubt that. I have 6 synths, 2 drums machines, and a vocoder.

is this actually true??

great info... ya, maybe it's time to upgrade the whole setup

This is the correct way to use midi. Set each instrument to receive a different midi channel

I’m wondering then why I’ve never heard of anyone I know doing this. There must be some drawbacks.

Not really. In fact this is how MIDI was designed to be used. It's the reason almost all MIDI instruments have a thru port, and why MIDI has 16 channels.

Then you are highly wrong
...and you have them all connected. SO, when you get a new MIDI device, you only have to use 1 MIDI thru. And it works just fine.
Yes it's actually true. How do you think we did it in the olden days?

Because you don't know the right people. You don't know your history, or read a manual...or know anyone that has...or understands MIDI.
You've been a member since 2013? 11 years and you never knew about MIDI thru? What are you? A guitarist?

Yes!!

I have more than 20 synths and drum machines/modules all connected to the one MIDI output on my MPC Key 37. I was doing the same with my Squarp Pyramid. I'm using all 16 MIDI channels. Everything works perfectly!! That's what MIDI was designed to do. Control 16 different synths using 16 MIDI channels all through one cable.

Here is a photo of my studio setup:




And here is a flow diagram of my MIDI connections. I do everything by using simple Merge and Thru boxes along with the Thru outputs of the synths that have them.

lol... fair enough

I knew about midi thru, just didn't know, from a computer, you could reliable operate 6+ different synths, each with their own midi instrument channel in logic... I will try this tomorrow and see how it goes and report back 🤣

Sick setup!!
Oh, so you need multiple other merger /etc boxes to pull this off? Not sure how this simplifies things versus just having a larger I/o midi interface and everything connected in there?

Also... some acquaintances with a lot of synths and experience are telling me that there is less latency going everything separate... ???

Well, if all your synths have a MIDI Thru then you would not need any Thru boxes. But many synths don't have a Thru so using a MIDI Thru box can solve that problem.

Merge boxes are needed if you want to get any MIDI info that a particular synth is generating into your DAW. So, if you want to play the keyboard on the synth and sequence it, you will need to get a Merge box to combine the MIDI outs of your synths to get it to the MIDI in of your DAW.

But if you are using a controller keyboard or maybe one only one of your synths as a controller to play all the rest, you do not need to use the MIDI outs of those other synths that you never actually physically play. And you also wouldn't need a Merge box.

Some people like to use one big fancy MIDI interface with a bunch of ins/outs. But it's not really necessary. For me it just confuses things as you often need to set up those fancy interfaces with a computer and that can be a very complicated and confusing thing to do. Plus those interfaces can be quite expensive.

Technically speaking, if you use a dedicated MIDI keyboard controller going into your DAW, and out of your DAW you feed MIDI into synth one and then use its MIDI Thru to daisy chain to the next synth, you would not need any sort of MIDI Thru or Merge boxes at all. Just one MIDI cable to connect each piece of gear to the next.

MIDI latency is an Urban Myth!!

If your synth has a true MIDI Thru out and not a "Soft Thru" it won't introduce any noticeable latency. You can introduce a lot more latency by trying to route everything through one of those fancy interface/routers.

If you don't want to, or are not able to daisy chain the MIDI, then simply get a MIDI Thru box. A lot cheaper and simpler than a fancy interface/router. And there will be no latency introduced with a Thru box.

Thanks for this info. Can’t believe I didn’t realize all this. I will experiment before I drop a bunch on a larger midi interface.

That's a great idea!!

Just use one MIDI out of your MidiSport interface and connect your 4 synths using the MIDI Thrus. Set each synth to a different MIDI channel. You should be able to play each synth independently from your DAW. Just make sure your DAW is outputting the right MIDI channels to the one same MIDI out of the MidiSport.

If you are confused on how to do this, let me know and I'll draw up a quick flowchart for you.

And thanks for liking my setup!!

They did the math when they wrote the MIDI standard There is, technically, latency. No matter what there will be latency because MIDI is a serial protocol. It's unnoticeable (as long as, as Jags says, the thru ports are all hardwired). If you're using multiple virtual MIDI ports on your PC though, with all kinds of different drivers etc, your timing will be much worse than it would be with the little latency you get from using only one port.

I think I get it!! Just gotta set the midi channel in my external instrument plugin to whatever I set the synth to. use the same midi port out. theoretically this should be simple... will report back! if this works, it'll save me some headaches

Ya makes sense. This is great new info for me. I'm surprised It's taken me 15 years and 6 hardware synths to learn this

do you have to crawl in there to get inside and work?

Here is an older photo before I switched out my Squarp Pyramid for the MPC Key 37. You can see the entry space between the Trigon 6 and my Modular Rack. Plenty of space to walk in!!

Interestingly, I ran some tests and there is no guarantee of this anymore.

I tested a couple hardware THRU boxes that conformed to the MIDI Spec and each included the addition of a Schmitt Trigger, both inverting and non-inverting. (a Schmitt Trigger is a common addition to a THRU circuit and acts as a buffer when splitting out to multiple THRUs and for cleaning up the signal over long distances). The result was approx 3ms Latency.

I tested a modern MIDI Router/Filter that used a 32-bit 600 MHz microprocessor with 4 Ins and 4 Outs, each selectively route-able. The result was 1.1ms latency from any IN to any OUT, as well as when any Filter was applied (counter-intuitively, adding a bunch of filters didn't change the latency measurably. Filter code execution is extremely fast.)

So, I'm not here trying to say it's a huge deal, but unlike the old days, a hardware MIDI THRU can actually have more latency than a soft THRU. Modern MIDI Routers have advanced with the speed of the microprocessors they are implemented on.

This is good to know thanks!

Just remember that those values are pretty much non-discernable and not noticeable.

So did you get it setup using just one MIDI out and controlling your synths via independent MIDI channels?

I already have a 4in 4 out midi interface. I need to add more instruments. Away this week but when I’m back I’m going to setup a couple chains using thru so I don’t have to get another midi interface.