Yup! I have that module (SYS-505) and it's fantastic! Would love to see it recreated in software as part of an SH-5 plugout ?

If you were commenting my thinking out loud, I need to clarify. I didn't mean distortion per se. I meant dirt from saturating common elements, that is more like in Jupiter 4 that was shown by Audiorange. One could use JP4 plugout for that, but that would exclude all the wonders that System 8's native engine gives. Third filter from JD-XA is statement how Roland wasn't afraid to go into chaos land before hitting effects. ;]

Anyway, that's just my wish for something to happen, without much hope, so I am not pushing this idea further on random bystanders anymore. To explain myself: I love using digital to go into new territories, to - let's say - dream big, doing something inviable in analog land. Having ACB is perfect tool for that. Sometimes I'm wondering: if ACB is simulating analog circuitry... what the hell was their inspiration for System 8's engine? If it sounds the best (for me), how good would it sound (for me), if it was created in analog domain given chance to exploit stochastic effects when pushed to the limit? :]

Anyway, that was few of my thoughts. But if someone knew answer for my question about design of System 8's native engine, please let me know.

I agree that Roland's digital effects are top quality. Not only in System 8 - but pedals and synths, current and old (I have them in JD-XA and MC-909). I put Roland and Boss as one of my most recommended effects creators.

currently any software companies trying to emulate analog saturation can't compete with the sound results of the system 500 filter modules at all.

? don't turn this into an analog vs digital debate. And I also disagree with your statement. I have plenty of analog vintage synths, including an original System-100m, Arp 2600 to name a few... and as much as I love their sound, I also love the sound of my S8 / S1, and all the various plugouts, and their ability to emulate saturation, etc is scary accurate IMO.

Just wanted you to know... I spent the night upgrading the firmware to 1.32 and installing trial membership of Roland Cloud and Jupiter 4 and Juno 60 plugouts in place of Juno106 and Jx3p (have both as Boutiques).

Jupiter4 sounds vintage in a way I wished it would. What I remember from using the real deal, it always sounded "old".

Juno60 is the best sounding Juno I have played so far (Includes boutiques, Juno 106, Juno6, alpha junos, Arturia's and Cherry audio's versions, tal etc.).

NOW my System 8 is a proper poly monster. If Roland ever publishes Jupiter 6 as a plugout, I will buy another System 8 for the Junos.

I wonder if the driver supports connecting more than one System-8 to the same computer via USB.

Just noticed I have a Juno60 plugout AND trig input on System 8.

Anyone managed to trig arpeggiator with trig in? That would be awesome as it would open up possibilities for authentic arpeggiator based basslines.

I know you can trig sequencer, but how about arp?

And also, how do I adjust arpeggiator arp step on Juno60? Arp step seems to just add octaves in range.

Edit: System 8 and tr8s are a really nice pair for retro style jamming. =)

With the System-8 having 96K Sample rate,
does its overtones reach 48K? (I have a JD-XA but the digital part has a LPF on 20-22K due to the 44,1/48K internal sample rate)
Though to my ears/feeling this takes away the clarity/sharpness to me.

Can someone check to what extend the System-8 creates overtones?
The synthesizer, not the plugin!
(you can check this with a hardware spectrum analyzer or using an interface with 192K + spectrum analyzer plugin of at least 96K read-out)
Then you put the System-8 init with a saw + no filter/HPF And check the spectrum analyzer.

I thank you in advance.

Hi,

Is anyone using the USB audio?

I am able to select the System 8 as my audio interface in Ableton Live, and it works as expected; for example, softsynths can be played and heard through the System 8's audio outs.

However, the System 8 audio itself is not working properly. I can hear it fine, but the channel's faders and insert effects have no effect, as if I am hearing pre-fader audio, or else I have some kind of direct monitoring going on, which I can't turn off.

The more conventional usage with the System 8's audio outputs works fine.

Can anyone help?

D.

Hi again,

Another System 8 midi problem:

Local OFF, as far as I can see, disables the keyboard but not the knobs.

You can actually test this easily enough by turning Local OFF and twisting a knob, without any midi connections at all. The parameter will change and you will hear it when you turn Local ON again.

Is this how it's supposed to work? The manual implies otherwise. Local OFF "Enables/disables the connection between the controller section (keyboard, pitch bend/modulation lever, wheels, panel knobs and buttons, pedals, etc.) and the internal sound engine"

Tks,

Daniel

I think this is normal with any direct input you get into your computer. Or can you provide an example of audio input where you can use vst's and channel controls in real time? That's why there is still use for direct monitoring and something like uad that runs it's plugins on the card in real time.

I'd say it is normal. Local off should disable all controls related to performing with synth's keys. So, pretty much the stuff you listed. The knobs and faders to control the synth however are not related to performing but for sound adjusting.

You turn local off to avoid midi loop or double triggering when using the keyboard with other midi gear. You can still play your synth but only when you set the keyboard to the midi channel your system 8 sound module responds to. And when you do, you most likely would like to use it as you normally would, knobs and all.

Same thing if you play some other synth with it, but would like to, say, adjust the filter of System 8 at the same time.

Thanks.

D.

There should be a third option besides local on or off, called surface. In this mode the local engine should no longer be controlled by the knobs. The knobs are then intended to be used only as midi CC controllers

Hi, thanks for answering. This is true, but the internal engine is disabled (muted) in this mode, as I understand it.

I just tested this. In SURFACE mode, the sound engine is muted, but the knobs still affect it.

That defies the purpose a bit. Are you sure there is no loop from the midi out back into the midi in somehow?

It does it even with Midi disconnected.

- Turn Local to SURFACE
- Twiddle a knob
- Turn Local to ON
- Listen to the difference.

I've just been told elsewhere (Facebook) that the same mistake exists in the manual of the Jupiter X and JD-Xa, claiming that Local OFF disables the knobs, when in fact it doesn't.

D.

Does System-8 have any kind of pseudo or faux notch filter if you dial in some settings?

Hi everyone,
I got the System-8 and what I was expecting was right!
It has an internal sampling rate of 96K. Giving you overtones up to 48K.
Here is the readout of the spectral analyzer.

The reason it sounds more open and clear compared to the JD-XA from the stereo out.

Also, arpeggio's look so beautiful on a spectral analyzer...

I would rather assume the System 8 has 96KHz DA converters.
The internal rate could be anything, the signal is downsampled to 48Khz before conversion.

If it would be downsampled to 48Khz, it would only have overtones up to 24K.
In the picture you can see the harmonics go up until this 48Khz => 96K Sample rate.

Some people can explain things really well:
In audio it is the highest frequency that may be accurately sampled based upon the sampling rate. It is based on the Nyquist Theory, which applies to many different fields where data is captured. In general terms the Nyquist Theory is the minimum number of resolution elements required to properly describe or sample a signal. In order to reconstruct (interpolate) a signal from a sequence of samples, sufficient samples must be recorded to capture the peaks and trough of the original waveform. In digital audio the Nyquist Frequency is half of the sampling rate. For example, when a digital recording uses a sampling rate of 44.1kHz, the Nyquist frequency is 22.050kHz. If a signal being sampled contains frequency components that are above the Nyquist limit, aliasing will be introduced in the digital representation of the signal unless those frequencies are filtered out prior to digital encoding. For those who want the gory details there is an excellent paper called Consequences of Nyquist Theorem for Acoustic Signals Stored in Digital Format available at the Digital Recordings website.
From https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/nyquist-frequency/

Hence the reason why they put a filter on digital equipment depending on the sampling rate of the instrument/sampler/workstation/... To cope with this aliasing.

Higher sampling rate = more (real) overtones (not aliasing stuff) = an increased harmonic influence.

So to increase the experience, harmony and feel of music by digital equipment, it is by pushing the boundaries of sampling rate.
Though I understand it depends on current computing power / technology.

32bit / 96kHz internal processing is the value given by Roland AIRA's developers in interviews and presentations. They chose that to help make the sound more analog-like, smooth changes, push out aliasing etc, but also to enable things like deeper audio rate modulation, which could be another way to test out if those values are true.

I'm not sure how to test for that however. I do know that ZEN-Core (said to be 24bit / 48kHz) can't handle that as well as ACB leading to some missing features in the ABM models, or differences in how cross mod sounds, and such.

In any case, what is certain is that the SYSTEM-8 has a lot of raw power inside compared to other Rolands yet it only has 8 voices, so something's going on inside, or Roland is wasting money.

My moin point was that the S8 could internally run at a much higher sample rate in order to avoid aliasing. Many digital synths these days run in the Megaherz range.
Then, before conversion, everthing is filtered and downsampled to 48Khz (which requires a sample rate of 96KHz).
Thinking about out it, maybe there is only filtering as the DA converters already effectively downsample? Not sure about it though.

The only way to find out is an interview with the original engineers of the AIRA product range. I'm not sure if Gearspace Moderators can arrange something like this?

after a month or so with System 8, im so in love with the sound. my polysynth journey went from Juno 106 to Prophet 6 to Hydrasynth and OB6 Module, sold the OB6 and got a Nymphes, then swapped my Hydrasynth for a System 8. Now the Nymphes is looking scared as it really doesnt add much to what i have the System 8 despite being fantastic.

i genuinely think the System 8 and its various engines outdoes all my previous hardware sound-wise. yes even the Prophet 6 and OB6 for me. they are both classier instruments, no doubt, but their sound is not worth double the price of the System 8. For me the Prophet 6 oscillators were slightly bland, and the filter was nice but i always preferred the Juno filter. the OB6 has a beautiful filter but i find the oscillators too overpowering. I found that it could sound harsh as well as beautiful and overall the range of sounds was quite limiting. the Hydrasynth is the reverse - much more capable synthesis but very flat base sound. i actually liked the Hydrasynth heaps as it is great value, poly after touch feels great, and can sound amazing. i would say if i had room for a second synth i would reconsider it but as my main poly, i prefer something with a beefier base sound. System 8 also solves my hatred of working with too many synths (the wires, the setup, the crappy timing issues, etc) - having 4 engines is almost a perfect alternative and huge space saver.

But the System 8 just sounds the best all round to me. ive taken time to get into the nuances of the envelopes, the oscillators, the different engines. i used to have a JP08 as well, and i never loved the sound as much as i though i would. but the Jupiter 8 model on the System 8 just sounds immense. It can sound huge, it can sound thin, it has plenty of cross mod style tricks, the sync sounds are amazing. i really do think the Jupiter 8 model alone competes with OB6 and the Prophet 6's that i owned, obviously a different flavour. the Juno 60 model sounds better than my 106 as i remember it, particularly with the 106 filter engaged. then having bi-timbral capabilities to layer the different engines is just so powerful. i dont often save my own patches, so ive not been fussed by the crap Performance mode saving functionality. i also find 4 voices bi-timbral heaps more powerful than just 6 voice mono-timbral, so not bothered by just 4 voices in this mode - sure more would be better but its still really powerful. the sequencer is so easy and intuitive for quick ideas - it's killed the need for an external sequencer for me.

the System 8 synth itself sounds top notch. it's very close in functionality to what Diva sets out to be with swappable filters, oscillators and lfos. everyone who owns this is hoping one day Roland take it to that next step with an updated release or iteration of the hardware. the only downsides of the current model is the crappy keyboard, the looks and no after ouch - but honestly after my initial period of sadness coming from poly aftertouch to no aftertouch, im less fussed about it.

ultimately this is the best knob-per-function 'analog' style synth i've used. the workflow is so quick, sound design is so quick, and most of the time, the sound is always thick, present, analog sounding, warm, etc. a weird sleeper hit from Roland.

I have a question for System 8 owners treating their S8 like an original Juno.

I have seen Kebu and Mr Varaldo using the 'trigger out' on old drum machines like the DR-110 / 606 etc connected to the 'Trig in' and or 'Arp trigger' on the Juno.

The System 8 has a trigger in. Can it do the same triggering one layer playing an Arp, leaving the 2nd layer to play over the top?

Does it act in the exact same way?

No, unfortunately. The trigger in is only used for the step sequencer (one trigger = one step) and doesn't act like a trigger-based clock for the arpeggiator.

From the manual (this is the only thing it says about the Trigger In):

I hadn't played with it before, but just tested it now to be sure. Trigger input controls the step sequencer, but has no effect on the arpeggiator (with or without the Tempo Sync button enabled). Maybe because the arpeggiator step length is variable. On the Juno-60 and SH-101 (two classic Roland synths that support trigger in for arp rate), the arp steps are always 16th notes.

What you could do is program an arp pattern into the sequencer. The sequence can have a variable length, and even supports forward/backward/random playback. Lots of possibilities there.

Hi all!

Maybe someone had a similar issue with S8 or a similar device and can guide me in a right direction.
I noticed that sometimes my S8 freezes during a start-up: display lights up and just shows ROLAND and that's it. Normally after couple of seconds it shows SYSTEM-8 on a second line and is ready to be used. I think that it occurs if I turn it off and turn immediately or even within couple of minutes after that. I noticed the problem only after the OS update when I had to restart it and I first was under impression OS updater has just bricked it.
But I think if I wait for some time and turn it on it starts-up normally, so it doesn't feel like an OS error to me, though I did downgrade and factory reset it just in case (no result). PSU also seems normal (as far as I can judge), changed power sockets and disconnected everything from it to check, behaviour always the same.

I had a SYSTEM-8 for about 4 years and used it sporadically as a hobbyist, but almost everyday recently. Really sad about this, because just a week ago my SH-01a simply died also.
I am afraid it can die completely or indicate some fault in the power supply that can potentially worsen the state of a synth and make it harder to repair. Otherwise I can use it for now.

Could this peculiar behaviour indicate an issue with something during the power up? It feels like I have to wait for it to "cool-off" or "discharge" before I can kickstart it.

You could try and reflash the latest firmware?