Gattobus just posted a comparison of the JP-8 and S8 and you can very easily hear the real JP-8 due to the inconsistency of tuning between the voices in one of the chord riffs he plays. So yes there is still room to improve the modelling.

so we're at the point where digital needs to accurately recreate a flaw of analogue. what a circle jerk

doesn't the condition setting on the S8 help?

I think they nailed it. There might be a little difference, but in a musical context it doesn't matter anymore.
Also: the tuning inconsistency is a typical issue of aging compontents. Maybe Gattobus should have turned up the 'Condition' parameter to get even closer.

Doesn't everyone "in the know" basically state that the Jupiter 6 sounds better while also having a more interesting feature set? I've seen that said often enough that I assume it's the prevailing opinion.

I like the Jupiter 8 plug-out just fine, but I'd love to see/hear some other Roland analog poly synths as plug-outs (available for purchase).

When it comes to the S8 itself, I love it as a controller, which was my primary reason for the purchase, and appreciate it as an instrument. I much prefer the sound of VSTi's like Diva, RePro-1, and The Legend, but that may have more to do with the sound of the original synths they model, and not as indictment of Roland's modeling. That said, I do really think they nailed the Juno.

If Roland put out a System 16 (or whatever) with an extra octave, a second LFO, and Aftertouch, I'd be very inclined to consider updating to that. Extra voices and patch slots would be appreciated too, but I'd frankly be more interested in the physical aspects of it.

So, if I understand you correctly, a perfect emulation has to include the unwelcome and unmusical elements of the original? If so - why? Why on earth would anyone want that. Would you want to hear a cello with one string out of tune? Or a piano with 5 of its strings out of tune?

I simply don't understand this lemming-like approach that all digital recreations should ignore the benefits of digital and blindly replicate the imperfections and flaws of 80s analogue gear.

yes they have nailed it. we are well within any margin of "error". i'd like to see a blind test between 3 random jupiter-8's and 3 system-8's with varying levels of condition parameter engaged. if someone can accurately pick out 100% what is ACB and what is analogue, under normal playing conditions, only then can we possibly say there is still work to be done. but outwith anorak realms i think we are more than close enough already. kudos to roland.

Exactly. On both counts!

That was always the point. Having a static sound is what makes digital digital and an imperfect sound what makes analog analog. And it's these subtle inconsistencies that are part of what attracts people to the sound. So yes, if you want to do a true 1:1 model it should emulate this too. Maybe the condition parameter would have helped, but I can only speak to what I'm hearing in this video as it was done, and it's very easy to pick out the JP-8. Roland have done a very good job, don't get me wrong... and the S8 sounds miles better than the JP-08. Just saying at least I can still hear the difference between the real thing and the S8 in this video and yes, I prefer the "imperfect" sound.

Long time lurker but created an account just to reply to this message

NOBODY wants to hear that, not even the so-called "purists" who can't stand the thought of a DSP-based solution sounding the same as their pet from a distant time. Why did any of these manufacturers add auto-tuning? Wasn't it already good enough?

Quite a few years ago Howard Jones reviewed the Arturia Jupiter-8 and thought it sounded pretty damn close. Its close enough that in a mix (ie: where it counts) you couldn't tell the difference. It's even worse when people keep moaning about this stuff and you won't even get two of the same Jupiter-8s to sound exactly the same.

The emulations have been good enough for a long time already where it counts. The endless fascination with A/Bing an original next to an emulation is something I just don't understand anymore. Very odd IMHO.

Me? I won't ever be able to afford a real Jupiter-8 nor do I really want one. Not only is there the expense but then I've got to worry about upkeep. I'll take my System-8 with plug-out any day of the week (and Arturia before I had my System-8).

Welcome to Gearslutz!

No go fill out your profile and studio and hang around

The System 8 sits in between. True analogue is more interesting to the ear, digital, beautiful to the ear and the System 8 does both.

I, personally, want all the imperfections. I want the noise, the tuning, everything the original did well or did badly. But I want to be able to dial it in or out as with the Junos chorus noise, velocity on/off, and the condition level. Its part what gives analogue its charm, not just in synths but in drum machines too. Thats why some of us still use tape, or use plugins to emulate tape.

Im not saying the J8 doesnt sound like a J8 (not that anyones accusing me of that) I simply think the 106 sounds better.

Now that I understand completely! "Ability to dial it in" - that's a digital advantage; not possible to do such things with an 80s analogue. Don't get me wrong, I like the sound of analogue and it's unique characteristics (and had them back in the day) but the notion of faithful digital replication (uncontrollably) of imperfections and flaws of old analogue is beyond me.

As said in a previous post - "we are more than close enough already".

I thought it was only me who found the Arturia set good enough.
If they would make a white system 8 I would buy. Green is fugly.

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

@ CelloJP --- This totally now.

I have a bunch of JX's and Juno's - I love them, but recently I have been using a boutique JU08 seriously now in recordings - it is the only new Roland analog modelling thing I have right now. I have auditioned the system 8 in a shop and would buy it in a heartbeat.

The simple reason is that all that is left in the modelling is the noise and crakling and inconsistencies of the old synths. Something I don't want. I think Roland have got this down now.

It sounds and behaves like analog, but there is this tiny sheen of newness about it which if we are honest is welcome. It fits in with how music sounds right now. With something like Serum, yeah it sounds great excels in programming but it's digital sheen is to much for me, so these new roland units suite me better. You get pretty perfect modelling of the snappy envelopes and stuff we all love, but sort of encased in this usable new polish - and I love it. it is the best of all worlds.

It's not easy being green....

ahh cheers thanks for that..

damn those stickers on top of the plug out look so cheap. They come right off?

If you don't model the imperfections you end up with just a normal digital synth that is limited to standard waveforms of old analogue synth with perfect waveforms. The current Roland lineup is all about not doing that. And even the first generation of digital filters in E-mu samplers featured some distortion to mimic the imperfections of analogue filters because otherwise it sounded too thin.

Also there is not even a clear border regarding "part of the characterisic sound" and "undesired" (if you talk about "undesired" imperfections). The clicking of the 303 envelope is an example, it can drive you crazy in a mixdown but if you take it away that ear knocking envelope punch goes away, too.

They can - funnier still, is that when you buy a System 8, they come with stickers for additional plug outs. SH101, Promars, SH-2, System 100, etc.

Blatantly missing ....?

JX3P or anything else of interest that wasn't already released for the System 1 (all mono).



Greg

Also a 106 and JP-8 sticker on that sheet I personally love the look. Love the alien green backlighting. Bought a JX-03 while they were still 199 (might still be on zzounds where I got mine or Sweetwater). Its pretty nice. Had considered buying the real thing but then i'd have to get the programmer. No thanks JX-03 sounds great.

As I said above I love the alien green But no Howard said the Arturia sounds good and thats an older version. Been thru more revisions since then. If its good enough for Howard its good enough for me

I did the same with the JX-03 and honestly - no regrets. It's so much easier to manage patch management than the System 8 - All clear text and a simply USB file transfer as a local drive.

In fact - if you guys haven't messed with it, you can simply edit the text file with parameters and values on your desktop and load them in a couple seconds.

Can't say that I *Love* the green, but orange gets a bit old after a time too...

Must say - I have the Arturia V collection 5 and, honestly, their rendition of the JP8 (as an owner of one) actually sounds more legit (AKA, boring and dry) than the JP08 boutique.

The System 8 version of the Jupiter 8 is great but I can see how and why Roland deliberately avoided using the original JP8 presets on the System 8 whereas the JP-08 attempt to recreate them by exact parameter and number. Their way of showing what the JP8 can actually do - good call.

I'm actually glad that they did this since the factory presets on the JP8 (and subsequently JP-08) leave A LOT to be desired, except perhaps for patch 35 - I'm into synth brass.... Neg_Sync doesn't suck either.

Greg

Eh, it's kind of an ego/insecurity/phobia thing. A/B-ing for the sake of checking out sonic differences, and leaving it at that, is cool. I do that too, just to satisfy my geeky curiosity to see how close things are. So far, everything is good enough for me. Music results, and last I checked, doing music with an instrument, analog or virtual, is kind of the point.

The problem is that certain people engross and anguish and obsess over this stuff to the point I wonder if they ever do any music. Or just spend all their time listening to 30 second long resonant filter sweeps. I'd love to ask.

By the way, welcome to the Cuckoo Nest.

the system-8 acts like analogue that is working properly. it is not static or rigid. i hear little aberrations all the time playing chords and it is very cool. gotta check out the condition parameter. supposedly the effect is pretty mild even at max, so could be roland just needs to crank that up a little for those who want it, and i'm sure they could further that algorithm so that the user can isolate what flaws they want present and the likelihood/frequency that they will pop up, as i'm sure there are multiple factors in why an analogue synth starts to sound 'off'... seems right now that there is just one overarching setting.

though this seems like something that could be done via firmware on this very synth... not some distant dream. i would have the settings mapped to the bend and mod sens sliders, accessible by holding shift or something and future HW VAs could have dedicated controls if it was really that important. but i think we are starting to beyond faithful modelling and into personal preferences. and you aren't likely to please everyone in that case.

With the "condition" parameter at max the Juno-106 really sounds like it´s in bad shape with some patches and the Jupiter-8 gets that slight detune drift thats missing when set to 0. I think the condition parameter is pretty clever and not just "pitch all over the place" like on some synths. It´s not that mild actually. When comparing with an original synth I think that the condition parameter should be cranked up.

who knows WTF is going on, roland has such poor notes. could be once you push the condition past a certain value, other effects are introduced or something. like how the certain knobs behave differently once pushed past 12 o'clock. we are left to figure this out for ourselves, by ear. would like to see better documentation on all this, and more detail on the six SBF filters.

I read elsewhere that there will be no more plug-outs for the S8. Is this true? Hope not, because it's a tempting proposition for a compact keyboard to have many different 'personalities'. I've been hoping that Roland went further with the ACB/plug-out system and started modelling non-Roland synths. Like a Prophet 5, which would surely push S8 sales through the roof?