I'm trying not to get into modular....

But - if I did, would this starting set-up be interestingly diverse enough - And cost-effective -

A Moog Mother 32 plus a Roland System-500?

That way you get a MIDI interface, sequencer, 3 oscillators etc.... for about $2500 -$2600.

What do people with experience say??

Sure. I've been suggesting that people break into modular with a semi-modular synth and a handful of modules that they like. Whether or not your suggested setup would be interesting or diverse enough is a matter of your own tastes and preferences. Speaking for myself, I don't know that there's much you'd get from that setup (apart from the sequencer) that you couldn't get from a high-end monosynth. For $2500, I'd rather have something like a Moog Voyager than a Mother + 500. However, combining a semi-modular like a FR XS, Boomstar, Mother 32, or SEM with $1500 worth of well-chosen Euro is a much harder call... at least for someone with my preferences. With respect to modules, I'd rather get a few quirky oscillators (modular wavetable-based oscs are awesome) and a handful of crazy filters than a clone of a vanilla modular system from 35 years ago.

I was lucky enough to start my modular journey with 2 semi modulars (a Voyager and an XS). It's astonishing how different you can make a synth sound by simply adding an oscillator or using a different filter. But that requires that you seek out oscillators and filters with unique characters. It really doesn't take many modules to radically change the timbre of a semi-modular. I have nothing against the Roland/Malekko modules -- really, I'd love to own them all -- but if I was looking to put together a new system with maximum sonic flexibility, buying the entire 500 series lineup probably wouldn't be my first choice. That doesn't mean I wouldn't pick and choose the elements of that system I liked if I was putting together a system of my own for the first time.

That's the kind of info I want.... I'm interested in what would go better with a Mother 32 for instance.... Mutable Instruments Elements?

With modular, it's sometimes good to think about your end result.
Like, start with the kind of music you want to make (techno, ambient, sound design etc), then customize from there.
On average, a lot of the rigs on modulargrid have 1-3 synth modules, a couple of filters, clock dividers & sequencers etc,
which isn't a bad thing, but it can be done a lot cheaper. What you get from eurorack is a very immediate hands-on experience.
Which is largely what's missing from gear like Elektron's Monomachine.

I had a monorocket skiff with a few modules a year ago, but traded it for an octatrack and then bought a few semi-modular synths.
Grendel RA-9, Mutable Instruments Anushri, TT-303, Minitaur, MS20m. I found the variety without having to buy into the Eurorack system.
That said, I've done a lot more research and have a much better idea of the modules I probably will buy when I get back into Eurorack.

Starting with a Mother32 is a great idea, but then add to it and look for variety. As a synth voice, the M32 is going to fill a certain sonic range. For some, finding synths that contrast that sound is going to cover more ground (MakeNoise Telharmonic? Intellijel Shapeshifter?). Start listening to lots of demos, get on modulargrid.net & spend time over on MuffWiggler!

Elements is cool, but it's expensive and it's basically a voice unto itself. I would think more about the functionality and sounds that you want and look for modules that provide it. With the Mother, you'll be wanting another oscillator (or two) to help fill out the sound. You'll also need a basic mixer module so that you can combine these signals. I'd suggest getting a full-featured analog VCO as well as a more quirky oscillator like the SynthTech E350, Harvestman Piston Honda, Mutable Braids, Modcan FMDO, or Intellijel/Cylonix Shapeshifter (or something similar). You'll also probably want to add some modulation sources since the LFO and envelopes on the Mother are rather limited. Finally, start looking at soulful/character-filled filters. Some of my favorites are the Doepfer Wasp (sounds great and is CHEAP!), Doepfer A-106-1 XTreme filter (which has a nasty built in waveshaper), and The Harvestman's Polivoks (which has a 2-input mixer that you can overdrive, and can be unstable at high resonances). Low-pass gates and vactrol-based filters are also a lot of fun (check out the Malekko Borgs or the Make Noise offerings... I have a QMMG that I love, but that's out of production now). All of the filters I just mentioned have bags and bags of character. You may also want to invest in a cleaner multimode filter for bread-and-butter flexibility (I had the Doepfer Xpander style filter which was nice but didn't have enough character for my tastes).

Anyway, those are my initial thoughts and suggestions. Hope they're helpful!

Just go with what you can afford and what makes sense to you now. What you start with will likely change many times as you get further into modular. For most people it's a constantly evolving system.

If this scares you i'd suggest a semi-modular like a Boomstar or SEM.

One recommendation - buy second hand where you can, and when you're starting out and still experimenting get a sense of what the more sought after brands are as it will make reselling stuff much easier. Intellijel is a safe bet as they have a lot of different core modules (VCAs, Filters etc) and are easy to sell on if it's not what you want. Pittsburgh, Blue Lantern and to a degree Doepfer seem less easy to sell on for whatever reason. Once you are more confident in what you want from a modular then this is less of an issue as you'll be flipping modules less often.

Thanks for the help everyone - this brings me to a question I brought up here once before - what about polyphony when using a modular system? Does anyone here do that?

It's not worth the money or the hassle. Wrong tool for the job.

If you want polyphony on a modular synth, the best bet is to go software or get a Nord Modular.

I agree on polyphony but I think it is worth mentioning that paraphony is feasible on a modular with a polyphonic midi interface. It is fairly likely one will have 2-3 oscillators in their setup and paraphony is a reasonable substitute to polyphony depending upon how you intend to articulate the sound.

If you swapped out the Mother 32 with a System 1m you could get four voices of polyphony, but word on the street (I don't own one) is that as soon as you start using patch points the 1m becomes monophonic. When you think about it, that does make sense.

Another option is to integrate your modular system with a good sampler. Ask @ Derp about this. He's using his modular rig as fodder for his sampler to great effect and there's your potential polyphony.

There are a number of semi modular/single voice alternatives to the mother/roland once you have a midi-cv interface:

Mutable Elements (as mentioned).
Pittsburgh Lifeforms
Intellijel Atlantis
Blue Lantern Dwarf Star
Make Noise 0-Coast
Dreadbox Primary System Modular

...just to name a few.

Also if you like DAW control over hardware sequencers you may prefer an Expert Sleepers eurorack midi interface over a midi-cv/eurorack sequencer setup.

wattabout:



and



looks moar fun to me.

Or an XITE-1 or 1D, as it comes with Scope Modular which is an amazing system. (it comes with a lot more as well, including great effects) It can also be extended with optional 3rd party modules. I picked up the Flexor modules this Christmas and they're fantastic. You're then tied to a computer though, but it'll run on an old laptop with no problem as all it does is use the computer for basic interface duties. (runs on up to Windows 10, though the samplers won't run on 64 bit systems yet) I highly recommend one. It's great i/o as well. You've got polyphony galore though. I made a unison sound a few weeks ago that was super close to a patch I was trying to replicate on a .002.

Anyway, Scope Modular running alongside Reaktor 6 within Live has been an excellent way to stave off the G.A.S. for a hardware modular. I still may pick up a 1m at some point because... well do I have to explain? I'm on Gearslutz for f's sake.

Going polyphonic with the modular itself isn't a good idea for reasons already iterated in this thread. You'd have to run duplicate chains (VCO-VCF-VCA, Envelopes, LFO's, etc.) and not only can this get expensive very quickly, but it becomes fiddly getting all of knobs to match up. And then you put together this polyphonic patch to do what? Create something fairly basic sounding probably and then tear it right down? Not worth the effort.

I'm vocal about the sampling option. As long as you plan ahead when putting patches together (decide in advance what kind of modulations you want and how you're going to emulate them through the initial sample and the sampler's synth engine) it can be quite rewarding. And there's an added benefit that you don't have to futz with tuning every time you want to run the patch.

For context, here's a very brief test I did recently as a proof of concept to evaluate for sure if my plan was going to work and whether or not I should keep going forward or tear it down and start a new plan:

The only things in this track that weren't done with samples from the modular was the guitar and a few of the percussive noises being played in from the modular during mixdown. The thing I tried to emphasize while recording this is that modulation did in fact happened. It was quick, sloppy, and not very well composed, but it did prove that the concept works.

As far as what to start with, as mentioned, the System 1m drops to a monophonic instrument the moment you plug a patch in. Also, I've asked some people that have them and what they find is that with this synth, there's a tendency to want to stick with the default signal path. It doesn't play well with others nor does it promote bringing others into the mix.

Elements is a cool little module, but it's expensive, it's a fixed signal path, and... it's got a specific sound to it. You can do a lot with it, but it's hard to make it not sound like a hippie machine unless you're playing with the hidden modes or popping in other OS's. If you're interested in one, I'd get it later on as a supplement, not as a primary goal.

Judging by your initial choices with the Moog and the System 500, you're leaning toward East Coast style subtractive to start with? Semimodulars are a great introduction, but if you choose correctly, they can make a great core to your system when you expand into a larger system. I've got a Vostok up on eBay now that I can't recommend enough as a starter for the fact that it's (probably) going to sell less than your $2000 mark, it's got three VCO's, two LFO's, two envelopes, a mixer, a mult, a joystick, an S&H circuit, noise, ringmod, a killer filter modeled after the MS20, a VCA, an adaptor for switching from 1/4" to 1/8", an 8-step sequencer, and a pin matrix. ASol makes great and powerful sounding oscillators comparable to the ones in my 5u. The only reason I'm selling is because I want everything in my modular system. I've already replaced many of the functions the Vostok provided with ASol modules. It's a beefy sounding starter for subtractive synthesis. The beauty of the Vostok is that it's fully modular, so with no fixed signal path, you get to dive in right from the start. Outside of Vostok, other good semimodulars that you can use as the core of your system are the Kraftzwerg (still hanging on to mine), Red Square (ignoring the weird resonance problem with the filter), Telemark (only two oscillators, but as is par for the course with ASol, they are awesome), and the MS20.

Alternatively, one could cut out the middle man and start with a modular system instead of getting a semimodular. Guys like Synthrotek, Pittsburgh Modular, and Doepfer make modules cheap enough to where you can get a full voice for a reasonable cost. Some of them even make modules that consist of a whole voice to get you started (no shame in owning a Synthesizer Block from Pitts as I just got one myself.)

Also, there's no rule saying you have to stick with Euro, especially if you're after something Moogy. 5u systems are great. I've got a 64-space system centered around DotCom. Their oscillators have become the standard of comparison for other oscillators. I started with their entry system many years back getting a module each month, and it was a great way to really learn the in's and out's of each component in a synthesizer. The second module I got from them was an oscillator and the moment I first plugged it in, I was amazed. It sounds like pure electricity. The raw tone of a DotCom system is unparalleled, but there is one huge downside: There aren't many manufacturers doing the 5u thing. As such, you're not going to find many adventurous modules out there, just the basic components. If you're into East Coast synthesis though, these are great.

Hope this helps, mang!

I got into modular last year, so I am relatively new but I did research for almost a year prior here and Muffwiggler and Youtube before ever buying anything. At this point I would recommend modular to anyone thinking about it. It is a tremendous amount of FUN to make music this way. I crank up the modular and record every day multiple times a day, even if it's just for a few minutes between things. It's the most fun I've had making music in a long time.

It sounds like maybe you want a smallish system, mine is pretty small but still useful and feels complete enough to me. It works as a standalone music-making box, and it incorporates into my Octatrack-based setup as well with the Midi-CV module and the Mother. I started with a Mother-32 as the base of my system-
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/221246

...and it has worked out great. Almost all the modules were personal choices based on what I thought would be cool, and it has basically ended up true. I've only ended up buying 3 modules I don't need/want out of all that, and easily sold them (Derp will buy anything FYI).

A lot of people experienced with Modular will tell you not to start smaller than 9U for a case, and for probably 75% of people this is the correct approach. The two caveats being maybe you want a smaller, more portable system like me or maybe you don't don't have a desire to cram 7-10k in a box that someone could walk off with at a gig. My system with case and cables cost just over 5k (which freaks me out a little), and it is small compared to most.

Anyway, it's not something most people seem to regret getting into. Play around at modulargrid.com and watch a LOT of videos. The only specific module I would say you should seriously consider pairing with the Mother is Make Noise Maths. It is incredibly useful, and paired with the Mother they become an unstoppable force for weirdness.

It's true! I'd be all over Naugo's Erve Verb and Echophon if I hadn't dug myself such a deep hole financially.

But thing is that if you're gunning for a massive system like I'm after, then every module has its purpose. The only modules I've sold so far were an LPG (because there was one built into the Synthesizer Box) a MIDI 2 (because at the time I wasn't after MIDI-CV and that really is a sorry module anyway) and the Pressure Points (because I wanted to kick off a blind trade thread on Muff Wiggler.) I complain about the bang for the buck with the Maths and Tides, but I'm totally still using the hell out of both.

Id say DAMN THATS A LOT OF LOOT!

but hey everyone has different budgets.
maybe I was thrown off by you using the term cost-effective.
maybe that is the way to go?

There's nothing wrong with this plan, you'll end up with two nice sounding voices. But…and this is just my view…they're both kind of boring, straight up East Coast synth voices. Nothing at all wrong with that but personally I would rather trade up one of the voices (whichever is the lower priority for now) for some modulation sources, logic, utilities, etc. When it's all said and done a bunch of vanilla modules without anything especially interesting to modulate them with are kind of dull. It generally takes not only good modulation sources but a complement of utility modules to dial in and control that modulation to get more interesting results and stop obsessing over what modules you still need.

So personally I'd ditch the Roland modules (or maybe just grab the filter for a bit of variety) and fill that space with LFOs, function generators, EGs, sequencing, mixers, offset/inversion, etc.

Heh, that's why I said ditch the Moog and go for a 1m. There you have potential polyphony, two ocillators in a very wide variety of types, including some really interesting digital ones, and some effects too.

Looks like you're going to need a bigger rack.

Agreed with this. Outside of the Aira modules, I'm not seeing that much bang for buck in Roland's stable. The System 500 modules are $350 a pop and are rather basic compared to other modules for a lower price bracket. With the full system being $2000? Seems a little much for something so simplistic. If you want cheap and filled with the features you mentioned, here's a quick mockup:


https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/280187

Nothing esoteric or hard to find here:

Tiptop Happy Ending Kit (84hp frame and power) - $160.00
Doepfer A-190-2 MIDI to CV - $140.00
Blue Lantern Buff (Buffered Mult) - $80.00
Doepfer A-110-2 Oscillators (x3) - $465.00 ($155 each)
Doepfer A-124 Wasp Filter (One of the greatest bargain filters ever) - $110.00
Bastl CV Trinity (Modulation Heaven!) - $309.00
EMW Quantizer 101 - $139.00
Malekko VCA (Two channels) - $150.00
Doepfer A-138b (4-Input Mixer) - $70.00
Grand Total - $1,623.00

The only 'extravagance' here might be the Trinity for its high cost, but with that, you get six channels that can function as LFO, envelope, or knob recorder, so a lot of modulation functions in one module. In this scenario, the knob recorder can substitute as a sequencer when patched into the quantizer.

And these are 'brand new prices'. Going secondhand and looking at other brands as you find them, I don't see any reason why you couldn't get a similar setup at around the $1000-$1200 mark.

Wow thanks for doing this - and thanks to all for the info etc. This is going to be a difficult decision, as I"m sure many know - should I or shouldn't I.... and then more decisions.... why the quantizer? I'm new at this but not new to synthesis....

With analog sequencers, the CV that comes out of them is fairly wild. You can nudge them into tune, but it's inaccurate and is a huge chore if you're going for a complex sequence. With the quantizer, you can lock the incoming CV to scale. So put behind the Trinity with one of the channels set to knob recorder, you can put together a melodic sequence quickly and easily.

Ah thanks. What happens when you come out of the sequencer in a Moog Mother 32? Is it any "cleaner" so to speak?

maybe throw in some classic doepfer adsrs in there too and maybe lfos, doepfer vcas, and possibly some other filter of choice like the MI or e440 (not cheap but very all round). a maths?

sequencers that seem popular is the audio damage sequencer 1, metropolis, stepper acid. or even a beatstep pro (if its finally working now)

Yeah, it's already quantized. I wouldn't bother with a quantizer early on if you are going to be doing most of your sequencing over MIDI or with the sequencer on the Mother (which will control other oscillators just fine).

Excuse me while go off topic...

I haven't had any issues with my BSP. I think the issues that people are having are exaggerated. The only problems I had were that the CV clock defaults to 96ppqn (why!?) and the note sequencer's default center frequency is like a billion octaves up (again, why!?). These are both addressable in the software. The only reason I'm even selling mine is that I just really want to have all my sequencing in the modular.

These are exactly my experiences as well. I have had no actual issues with the BSP, and the only things I've had to change using the software are the clock output's division (changed to 16th notes down from 96ppq) and the CV output's default octave. That me all of 30 seconds. It works just as advertised (at least how I'm using it).

This. The quantizer in the setup I put together is only there to lock up the Step Recorder. If one were to go with this setup and still get a Mother 32, I'd still recommend the Trinity and the Quantizer though for the fact that the Trinity provides six channels of envelopes, LFO's, and step recording (so it covers a lot of the basic utilities for cheap so you don't have to rely on other ADSR's, LFO's, and such) and using the quantizer with the step recorder will yield much different results (controlled pseudo-random if you will) than the Mother's sequencer.

And thus the rabbit hole here I come.....