Sound on Sound magazine still has a monthly technique column for Sonar alongside ones for Logic, Ableton, PT etc.

But does anyone still use Sonar? I can not recall anyone here ever mentioning it.

Sonar Platinum user here.
I probably would change, but the crossover is too expensive.
I think i'd like the Ableton Live workflow.

But I know Sonar (I've been a TwinTone/Cakewalk user since it was midi only!)

Sonar user here.

If you think nobody's using it, pop over to the Cakewalk forums and take a look for yourself

Sonar Artist user here. Using Cakewalk since the version 3.0, when it was only Midi.
I tried to migrate to Cubase and Logic when VSTi boom appeared, but I could not get used to it, although I used Logic for a little while in the early 2000, until it became Mac only DAW, so I returned to Sonar (I think it was version 3 at that time).

I knew Cakewalk so, so well that I cannot get used to any other DAW, maybe I am too old for new stuff, that´s for youngsters.... xD

Yah, longtime SONAR user here. The Cakewalk forums are pretty awesome so I never check in here at GS for that, I just come for the celeb Q&A sub-forums.

Sonar X3 Producer Edition was and still is the best DAW, subjectively. Those who disagree are simply biased. It's the only DAW programmed in WinAPI C++ and is the only DAW that has a workflow that can be fully customized and has comprehensive keystroke accessibility. The full version is a complete tool set for every aspect of production, from writing to tracking to mixing to mastering to post for video or other media publication. Complete meaning complete from multiple interface perspectives to processing, plugins and instruments. No feature is an afterthought, it has been and still is one of the best thought out and executed pieces of software ever written; and it's written in WinAPI C++ so it is adaptable and expandable for any hardware set and therefore 100% futureproof as long as windows exists on the WinAPI coding standard. Even if windows ceases to exist, it's structure is C++ so it can likely be ported by simply overriding Windows object naming. It conforms to every AES industry standard which no other DAW to date can boast, and that includes the industry standard OMF project file format (the *.wav of multitrack projects that somehow many major DAWs seem to only include as a high-priced add-on). On top of that, Sonar has always been a year or more ahead of every other DAW when it comes to implementing new driver and hardware features such as a 64-bit floating point environment, and the additions not only again conform to industry standards in audio but also computing and are fully featured as developed (for example, VST3 was implemented from the start with complex input and output structure allowing parallel processing and cross-input keying/triggering). There is only one feature of Sonar that needs updating and is a serious threat to its competitiveness, and that is the hardware insert feature forces the occupation of stereo inputs and outputs; even if only one mono input/output combination is used, the corresponding channel of that ASIO pair will be unavailable for use in a different insert or track input/output. FIX IT ALREADY!

I been using Cakewalk products since Cakewalk 7. I skipped several versions of sonar and I'm currently using X1.
I own many other DAW programs, Cubase, Ableton, Adobe, Pro Tools, Reaper.

There's many reasons why Sonar is rated as the #1 DAW in 2017. It comes with a great set of plugins and its easy to use.

If you've compared DAW's, the basic functions are all the same. Its the plugins that really set them apart and drives the costs up. When you compare the plugin package to others Sonar has at least two sets of tools to do the job and they all work well.

I've used Cakewalk products for about 20 years now and know here the faults and positives are. The things I like is the file cleanup is very easy and automated. All you do is delete the project icon and then you can scan for all the wave files associated with the project and delete them all at once. Likewise, Sonar gives the wave files logical names. If you ever need to drill down and find a track wave file they have a logical name sequence that makes them easy to find.

Other features. When you record a file you don't have to set up markers like you do in Cubase, nor do you have to wait for the file to finish rendering before you can save it. Those two items make for being able to record projects live quickly. I record when playing with a band I can simply hit save, give the file a name, OK, then undo. I'm ready to record another song immediately.

All the menus are customizable as is the appearance. I'm able to populate menus with the items I use the most and hide things I never use which simply get in the way. Saving projects as a cakewalk bundle is quick and saves a ton of space too. I can save a 16 track recording in about 15 seconds which isn't bad because its rendering all those wave filed into a compressed format. Takes the same time to open and unpack it too.

My beefs are small things. One is the envelope tool has no save settings. I often use this tool for fade ins and removing noise in silent areas. You have to recreate the curve every time you open the tool and the tool dates back 20 years and has never been modified. There are other ways of doing this same thing but its something I prefer to use over other things like volume automation or writing envelopes.

The other item is they're plugin consumption. They still use an adaptor tool to recognize plugins and it consumes too much CPU resources. They're stock plugins aren't bad but many 3rd party tools can cause resource issues. You can get around them rendering the plugins to tracks and removing them from the channels but that's something you'd only do when the projects nearing completion and the settings correct.

Along with this the undo function uses up allot of temp memory. Its great you can undo anything but it should clear the temp memory after you save the project. All versions have the same issue, a gradual drop in resources available during long mixing sessions until the program eventually freezes requiring you to open the task manager and force the program to close. This is the same with any computer and any version of the program so its part of the programs architecture.

Lastly, I'm not overly impressed with the 64 bit version. I run both 32 bit and 64 bit on a new state of the art workstation, all top of the line.
The 64 bit version allows you to run 64 bit plugs but there is no noticeable performance improvements. Thy also use something called bit bridge which allows you to run 32 bit plugs but its highly unstable. It may recognize some plugs and not others. I eventually gave up and run both versions and made separate folders for 32 and 64 bit plugins. I can run either version now and not have issues.

Sonar's unfortunately made a lot of mistakes with each version and removed some important features. It's usable in its current form but really not a professional product by any stretch anymore. Too many long standing bugs not fixed. Some embarrassingly hilarious - put a hardware insert on a bus, then solo the bus, it mutes everything! That bug's been around forever. Removing stereo interleaves and phase buttons from every track in track view was the final thing that pushed it from professional to amatuer status. There's a reason you don't see Sonar in professional studios.

I've been around since Cakewalk 5 (midi only version!) The pinnacle was probably 8.5. After that, they must have started smoking weed because it seems the Sonar team has gone out of their way to intentionally cripple their product since.

Stay away from the Sonar forums if you don't want to hate the program altogether. The forums are an insane mess of sheep and sycophants. Even if you post that you found a bug, you'll be chased with pitchforks and torches. It's really nuts over there. Speaking to people in real life, it's amazing how often that forum has turned people off to the program because it's so hostile over there to anything less than blind worship and praise for Sonar.

Seriously though, even if you have some morbid curiosity, go peek at some threads on the Sonar forum. You'll see for yourself real fast what the attitude of that forum is. Remember, if you found a bug - it's not a bug. YOU did something wrong. Sonar has no bugs! If you need a feature that Sonar doesn't have, the problem is YOU. Sonar doesn't need those features! If you were good enough, you'd know how to work without those features!

It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so sad.

I was a longtime Sonar User since their first beginnings, but now switched to Presonus Studio One.
I'm on Mac and therefore I was forced to change my DAW, due to lack of Mac support.

But on Windows Sonar does very well. They had some minor problems when they launched the all-in-one window system, but
now the software is really mature and usable.

I can tell you that this #1 global viral hit (spotify), #1 seller in 20 countries and top 10 U.S hit has been entirerly mixed and partialy produced (808 sound design) in Sonar 8.5.3

Like most I'll agree that his was the pinnacle of cakewalk's development path before they started to focus on the occasional "music enthousiast" market. Wich they deny still, to this day.

I'll always be gratefull that 8.5.3 saw the light of day because regardless of the glaring remaining issues (vst wrapper, 64bit engine not allowing sidechaining with vst's) it remains un-touchable at a number of things, including the amazing layering system, wich they killed sometime during the X serie with a clunky, less free-flowing design they dubbed "more professional"............................................................................... anyway

Can't blame them really, most of software developpers don't do music everyday.

Maybe they say they do...

But they don't!

Because they can't!

Because they need to develop their code everyday, so they DON'T have time to do music professionally everyday!

So they can't possibly understand the subtle little nuance in ui design that make the job of someone who does do music everyday easier, hence the resulting new sonar series now, that seriously look like a frankenstein of a d.a.w I mean my god... it borrows features from every other daw and implements it with 69% efficiency. And that is the result of a company listening to the loudest part of their crowd, the enthousiast crowd

So thnx to cakewalk at least for 8.5.3, wich was close to perfection.

Sonar X3 Producer Edition is the best and most complete DAW ever made. Those bugs you claim don't actually exist I've been with Sonar since version 4. The only thing that the need to fix is the hardware insert forcing stereo driver pairs to become unavailable even when only mono driver channels are used. But the plugins that came with the X3 Producer upgrade deal are better than all but the best hardware out there, really. Too bad they're no longer sold.

But you're right, the Sonar forum is full of people who have no idea how to configure a PC.

still going strong with X3e producer.
Started with 8.5.
A bit of a bug journey through x1,2 and 3.
So once bitten, twice shy at upgrade.
No reason to swap or upgrade really.
Think it does everything i want and more.
But i disagree on the plugins. Especially breverb, which imho is utter dung.
I decided to add in komplete 10 ult and glad i did. A step up in synths and fx.
Do love z3ta mk2 tho

SONAR user here as well. Been using it since before it was called SONAR (Pro Audio 9).
I'm not leaving anytime soon either



I usually just laugh at the comments that says you're attacked if finding a bug, or fault in the Cakewalk forum
Most are made by people that get upset if you don't agree with their initial statements, true or not..
Every software ever made has some kind of bug / issue, so I don't see trying to help someonegetting things done as being a fanboy.
Workaround or not..
Bugs get fixed, so someone has to see bugs / issues posted


All the best.

I was a big Sonar user, back from when it was just called Cakewalk in the late 90s, through to last year, when I finally got fed up of the bugs and switched to Studio One. I have absolutely no regrets since S1 works better for me in almost every single regard (lack of track templates being probably the only exception). I've not tried any heavy-duty comping or layering in S1 yet, but since they totally screwed that in recent versions of Sonar anyway, I doubt it can be any worse.

I just wish I had a good way to get all my old Sonar projects into S1 rather than having to bounce all the audio and manually export MIDI.

yes

No, switched to Studio One 3 long ago, it is imo infinitely superior to the flakey, bug ridden, gazzillion workarounds required for things to function piece of crap called SONAR. Not that I had any real issues with Platinum, but then I had been a user since Pro Audio 9, so I knew which 'buttons' not to push. I knew the workarounds for the many various issues for things that didn't work as they should, if at all, I just grew tired of it all, and the direction of Platinum and the monthly updates, but most of all I found something else which to me is far superior. It becomes like second nature, the long time user how has learnt through the years no longer sees a lot of the issues that face new users, and therefore to them SONAR has no issues, but they are looking through tinted lenses. Look at the list of long standing serious bugs, look at how every month something that has worked previously is broken, often times not being fixed and as such joining and expanding the long list of bugs that will never be fixed. I was amazed to read a comment from Anderton which basically said that if an issue (read BUG) had a workaround, that the likelihood of it being fixed diminished considerably Just think about that, no wonder the list of long standing bugs is so long, SONAR is chock full of workarounds, which according to Anderton pretty much equates to bugs/issues that wont be fixed.

I also agree with the statements made here with regards to the Cakewalk/SONAR forums, it's the truth, I have seen it many times, people being beaten down because they dare to speak out, they dare to not lavish praise on SONAR, the fanbois just pile on until the poor user is beaten into submission, I am sure you have all seen it, if you say you haven't then you are just lying, pure and simple. It is a sickening place at times, and not for just that but all the back slapping, the arse kissing that goes on, it's like a mutual admiration society, the level of fanboiism is like nothing I have ever seen before. As for Anderton being a benefit, well I guess that depends on whether you are one of the arse kissers or not (A few of whom I see here in this thread), he has driven a number of users away with his attitude, SusanG for one, she even stated as much in a reply to Anderton. He just rattles on and on in defensive mode, often ending up leaving the reader confused about what the issue is, he bends and twists the story, goes off onto tangents with no seeming relation to subjects at hand, and down right must have the last say, and is NEVER wrong. Just look at the latest in the thread about whether or not Pro Channel module are still being actively developed, he just wont let go, he must be right, and he must have the last word. Read some of the comments in that thread by long time users, which basically agree with what I am saying here. No sorry, if he would just stick to tips and tricks and the technical side of things or whatever, but the way he carries on I don't see him as a plus, it's enough to make you sick reading some of his one sided blather, his excuses for SONAR's shortcomings.

There is a reason why SONAR is more often than not completely left out of the DAW conversation, why it is more often than not not listed in the "Test with" or comparability lists for many products. There is a reason that SONAR has the reputation it has (and it's not a good one) there is a reason why SONAR is not seen as a 'Professional DAW' there is a reason why SONAR's popularity is so low, the only people that can't see it are the ones on the inside, that are blinded by the facts, either they are hanging on because of the time and money invested, I believe some are only hanging on because of the forums, and the social aspect, at least I believe it plays a big part, they are insulated in a little bubble, safe from the outside , some feel some strange sense of loyalty to Cakewalk the company, as if it is somehow different than other companies, let me assure you it is not, if you think it is let me again assure you, you need to get out more, because it's not, and there are plenty of far far better options when it come to a DAW than SONAR, SONAR is old, built on old code, and that is part of the problem you see now, they just keep slapping stuff on without fixing the old code which is full of longstanding bugs. Look at how Staff view/Notation is going backwards, even Jerry has become increasingly vocal about it, it continues to go down hill with every update (not that it can go to much further down hill . . . lol) what little useful and WORKING features it has are oddly disappearing.

But as long as people are safe in their little "Cakewalk Forums Bubble" and don't stray away to far, they wont have to hear all the negative stuff people outside that bubble have to say, they wont be confronted by the reality of the situation.

Sure SONAR can run fine and do what is needed, it may take the long road to get there, and require knowledge of all it's issues and workarounds through years of use to 'seem' like it is stable, but for the new comer it isn't like that, they are confronted with situation after situation where things don't work as described, as expected, where things don't work as the documentation says it should, because the documentation itself is out of date (BUGGED) That's the reality.

Splat is the sole DAW here with lifetime updates so it will continue to be for the foreseeable future.

Sonar's lifetime updates are called that because it seems like you have to wait a lifetime for things to get fixed.

I bailed on Sonar after years of struggling with bugs that they just didn't have the resources to address (track templates breaking drum maps, undo/redo being unreliable, slip edit messing up when used with snap offsets, MIDI editing moving events into arbitrary nearby clips, etc etc etc etc), and getting tired of enduring 'improvements' that basically trashed my workflow, like the awful Take Lanes that neutered the previous Layer system, or the increasing reliance on the ProChannel when I want to work in Track View rather than Console View, etc.

Some of the bugs I was told wouldn't be fixed, because they were waiting for the much-vaunted Ripple Editing feature to come along. That took about a year to appear, so I'm glad I didn't pay for another year's membership waiting for that.

I use Sonar Platinum and Logic Pro X, with occasional forays into Reaper, Studio One V2 and Harrison Mixbus. Pro Tools is gathering dust. Of the group, I find I like Sonar and Studio One the best.

Given my intent to get a Softube Console 1 device, Sonar and an upgrade to Studio One V3.5 could be where I go because both products have superior Softube Console 1 integration. Oddly enough, I actually have hope that the Fairlight DAW built into the new DaVinci Resolve 14 will be a good enough DAW for audio-only projects; I don't expect MIDI to be a part of its intent.

In general I only have simple MIDI requirements, usually just drum replacement, and re-doing MIDI captured from hardware synths in the studio or at concerts. In the studio, track templates, comping, Mix Recall, and the ProChannel integration have been the most useful Sonar features for me. The Mackie Control functions in Sonar give me enough of what I need with my Midas M32 "interface", and all is well. Somewhere along the line Sonar broke ReWire for my Izotope Nectar, so manual pitch correction is somewhat smoother with the embedded Melodyne with the ARA functions. That problem is not enough to drive me to buy Studio One V3.

The main driving force is the management of my high DPI 4K display. I'm on a 2010 Mac Pro with Win7, and the *very* convenient sliders in the Sonar track view for panning, sends, and gain are not functional beyond 125% text magnification. Win10 (better high DPI scaling) isn't supported on my 2010 Mac machine, and I had a disaster trying to make it work. I've recovered from the disaster, but I see that the Win7 days in the Mac Pro are numbered. The macOS and Studio One both have better high DPI display management, so it really becomes a 'tail wagging the dog' situation in that respect.

Studio One will allow me to stay in Yosemite or Sierra and keep going with the Softube Console 1 plan. DaVinci Resolve will run on both Windows and macOS, so I shouldn't have have migration or learning curve issues. The future seems bright.

I learned long ago that market share is never a useful indicator of quality or lack of quality. I've observed that attitudes of the buyers has everything to do with perceived quality, and the public can be both fickle and stubbornly loyal. Those humans, a tricky bunch they are...

What DAW did you move to?

My experience has been for the most part, been Great! I'm not saying it's perfect and I don't have a lot of experience with other DAW's other than "Pro Tools" which I started with their native then HD version.

Studio One 3. Wishing I'd moved sooner, because getting my projects from Sonar into S1 is awkward.

Long time user, lifetime Platinum subscriber. I'll keep using it for as long as it works well. Just not worth investing in another platform that would do the same thing just differently.

I know Sonar is like the red headed step child of the DAW family, but I don't care. The MIDI programming workflow is still the best I've used and the included plugins are so good that I don't feel I need any 3rd party plugs. If I can't do it with Sonar Platinum, the problem is not the platform.

Looks like I will soon be deciding for a main DAW or a one and only DAW between Sonar Platinum and Studio One Pro 3.5.
I also love Reaper and FL Studio but neither has ARA.
One very important feature is the ARA implementation. Which is better or more completer, Sonar or S1?

Leaning slightly towards Sonar as it has a native 32/64 bit bridge.
Wish Sonar had something like multi-instrument modular environment of S1.

I started with Cakewalk Pro Audio 9 - moved to Sonar 4 then to X1 and now I'm to back to 8.5.3. My issue with Cakewalk is that they dropped Windows XP support with X2.1ish. Main reason is that WinXP can't support touch surfaces. My issue is I don't have or use touch surfaces so why isn't it an install option that I say I don't need touch surfaces so go ahead and install it on XP. Reaper still supports XP BTW. X1 is supposed to be a bit buggy but I haven't really encountered them. I bought a copy of 8.5 just to be safe.

Overall I'm happy with Sonar. A band mate swears by Reaper so I bought a license and keep it up to date.

I'm currently transitioning to Ableton. I've been with Sonar since 8.5. It just does not easily allow me to take full control of my control surfaces and soft synths. You'll see a lot of workarounds in the forums, often times suggestions to download another program to make Sonar do what you want it to do. I am tired of losing hours of productivity to learn its eccentricities with MIDI.

Also been using SONAR since Pro Audio 9 days (pre 2000). If I absolutely had to choose another DAW it'd be REAPER. Especially since they implemented their staff/notation view.

The main question is: Does anybody really use Cubase anymore? Surely that thing must have one foot in the grave by now?
Not to mention Pro Tools of course.

Sonar Platinum user here. I wouldn't call myself a power user but it works good for me. Monthly updates, improvements and bug fixes are nice.

It's been my daw for many years. Got the lifetime subscription, and see no reason to move to another similar program, especially as I use it in quite basic ways (=I see no shortcomings, if there are any).

But, I recently started using Renoise, so Sonar is not the only program anymore. I suspect Renoise will be the main program for on-the-grid music from now on ("programming" music via QWERTY keyboard vs the hugely painful pianoroll-and-mouse interface most DAWs use).

I'm Running Sonar Platinum. IMO, since they started the monthly update programs, it's been improving by leaps and bounds.


I started off running Cakewalk 4 and Cubase, but found Cakewalk more intuitive, flexible, and easier to work with for actual audio recording ( rather than loop-based or step programmed EDM type stuff)



My only criticism is the the manual essentially sucks. The forum is a much better resource if you want to know how to do something.