Jus,
How about we get back on topic?

As far as I recall, the topic was LPX vs. PT11. You proposed that LPX, including new update of LPX, is quite bad, one of the reasons being that the new Drum Machine Designer is a toy which does not let you use your own samples. I responded by saying it is UB in disguise and thus you can use your own samples (meaning, you were wrong in this part of your argument). You responded by complaining that you have to click on the arrow to get inside the Designer envelope. I responded by saying that well, you actually don't have to do any extra steps because you anyway have clicked it already if you are doing serious drum arranging. I also reminded that you can indeed drag samples to UB. You responded by turning to other topic, i.e., made the claim that UB is "similar" to Boom (as if this would provide some proof to your earlier point that the new update is quite bad because Drum Designer is a toy). I responded by saying that it is not "similar" to Boom, rather it is similar to Battery, which is your current choice.

So I am still speaking of the same topic, making the claim that if you prefer Battery over Boom, you actually would prefer UB over Boom (if you only knew what UB really can do), and you actually would not have made, in these terms, the argument that the new update of Logic is shit, if you would, in the first place, have known A) what kind of a plugin Drum Machine Designer is like, B) what kind of a plugin UB hidden under it is like.

So what would you say, now that we are speaking of the very topic? Is LPX 10.1 bad because it has a new Drum Machine Designer, or is it actually PT that is more bad regarding to this area of functions?

I am not a mean guy but as I said in my first or second post, I wish not to see people inventing lacks of Logic which do not exist. Every DAW has real lacks you can criticize, so there is no need for that.

I agree that they are very similar but UB has the synth section, but Batery 3 & 4 have superior samples.

I agree!

That may well be so, but that was not the topic. :D

I usually use Pro Tools for vocals cuz you have more control when comping. It makes it easier to align doubles, harmonies etc.

Logic I use to produce the instrumental aspect of a song. The plugins that come with Logic are awesome, and Logic has the same key commands as Garageband (which was especially helpful for me since I played around with Garageband a lot before moving to Pro Tools and Logic).

I use Logic on my MacBook air, and it rarely crashes. But Pro Tools I use on my iMac and it crashes more often than Logic. It's also a pain to carry around an iLok everywhere you go if you're planning to use Pro Tools on a laptop. Logic is very portable.

Been using Logic 10.1.1 and it's really hard to beat. I still love cubase but LX has mad a comeback...

I'm an Apple fanatic and was a Logic user going back to the Emagic days. That said, Logic has some critical disadvantages that finally pushed me over to Pro Tools.

The biggest gripe is the ancient engine LPX is built upon that doesn't fully utilize hyper threading. This is inexcusable. If you record natively with plugins (something that is easily within reach of modern machines with acceptable <4-6ms latency), you will find Logic crippling. The Logic engine processes all record enabled tracks and VIs on one hyper threaded core. That means if you just bought a trashcan Mac Pro with 8 cores, a beast of a machine at no small expense, your record enabled tracks all get processed on one of the 16 available hyper threaded cores. You'll get dropouts with very little processing. It's like limiting a NASCAR race car to 1st gear. And since Apple owns the software and hardware, this is an absolutely ridiculous self-imposed limitation. The fact that it hasn't been addressed tells me Logic is not a priority for Apple development. Granted there were some new features in a recent update, but I don't care if the car has cup holders if I can't get it out of first gear.

The bugs also finally got the better of me such as the automation bug involving two points at the same timeline location. Crashes with 3rd party plugins were also problematic. Granted that isn't entirely Apple's fault, but those same plugins are running much more stable for me in PT. Because of wider adoptio , I feel like PT issues get ironed out faster (minus the AAX debacle). I'm not crashing sessions in front of clients like I had been. I also vastly prefer panning in PT. It is more tweakable and functions more like a mixer whereas Logic inherited the midi pan workflow. The editing is much faster in PT but there is a learning curve. Until you really learn keyboard shortcuts, it isn't much faster. Once you know them you can fly. It took me 2 weeks to really get the hang of it.

Pro Tools has not been an entirely satisfying experience either. I miss a lot of Logic plugins and VIs that were bundled. Comping in Logic is much faster. Flex Time has fewer artifacts than Elastic audio. Pricing for PT HD is awful and Avid's subscription and upgrade plan beyond PT12 just sucks. Also PT isn't entirely stable. It can be finicky and requires some machine optimization, but once it's running it purrs. I never had to worry about OSX upgrades breaking Logic. With PT I wouldn't take the chance until it was proven.

I keep both programs and bounce back and forth depending on what I'm doing. But I'm opening Logic less and less these days.

*I'd like to add that I hope Apple and the Logic team fix these issues. I think Logic could be king with some development, but my biggest gripe is that I don't see it as a priority for Apple.

Given your reasoning for ditching LPX, I'm surprised you didn't move to Cubase. You don't lose nearly as much functionality doing an LPX->Cubase move as an LPX->ProTools move, in my view.

Cheers,
Mike

He would gain functionality moving to Cubase 8 From Logic. A much faster audio engine would be one of a vast several.

I like Cubase. I used Cubase SX years ago for several projects. I feel like Cubase is where the innovation is happening now. Cubase was a little behind but with Cubase 8 I feel like Steinberg not only caught up but starting raising the standard. Some of the workflow I prefer in Pro Tools still. Though Cubase does a little bit of everything, I feel like there are specialized tasks that are better served elsewhere - for me at least. I picked up a big video client that I'm doing post work for, and Pro Tools offers the easiest way for me to take that handoff quickly based on their standards. I also mostly use UAD, waves, and other 3rd party plugins and VIs, so the content is becoming less important though still a nice luxury.

But your point is well made. Cubase actually shows they care to develop. That competition is a good thing. Digital Performer has some nice things going for it as well. I guess my point was that Logic used to be the leader. It's getting passed up in all the areas that count. The reason is a lackadaisical commitment to development. You are correct that Cubase among others doesn't have that problem.

When Pro Tool requires 10's of thousands of dollars and tons of learning and every little thing you get for it has to be PT approved while Logic Pro X is $199, UA Apollo & is $2499 and assorted plugins from any third party company means flexability to me.
I have a friend who is switching over to LPX after years and years of using PT,and he is a very well known Producer/Engineer, because he doesn't want to pay the $7000 it will cost to upgrade to PT11!!! That says allot to me.
To me, Avid has priced itself out of the marketplace. UA Apollo 8 costs $2499 the comparable PT converter costs $5000!!!! See my point? Also the UA unit has onboard DSP so it handles all the load whilst your CPU purrs along at minimal usage. Does PT Do that, I don't know.
For me it all comes down to price and flexability. I just don't see it with Pro Tools. I guess all the pro's using PT are truly Pro-Tools. =

I have found that I can work sufficiently with both, i beleive its all about what you as an engineer prefer to use, its all about the tools at hand and how well you can work with them. Protools is my first option, when mixing and recording ill use that as my default it just does that beter, and when composing, especially when composing big parts ill use logic, just easier and works beter there. All about what you like and how well you can end up with a profesional product your client will appreciate.

I`m a pro guitarist that`s been around PT for years ...and never deeply.
My needs are tracking and editing comps for bass,gtr, vocals ....no pro post production. My Macbook Pro is crashing (looks like a Vram issue) so a new laptop will probably tank my PT8.5 (mbox pro 2) compatability wise.
BTW...For the Slutz, I track through good mics into good pres (NPNG and TD-1) with the Mytek 192 convertor..
Anyway ...As I quoted above ..I HATE the hoops you have to jump through with AVID.
I`m in a dark cave now and am hoping for a candle from y`all here!
I just bought a used MH ULN-2 (no dsp) and am ready to move on with my simple tracking editing needs into modern times.
That said ... PT (with the associated investment) vs. Logic (I`d have to learn it)
or Cubase ...with the hopes of driving it all through the Metric Halo (with an eye towards the MH 3 usb option in the future).
I don`t need sophisticated mixing or processing.
thanks

This. Both great DAWS

I use both!

For mixing, I prefer Pro Tools over Logic Pro for 2 reasons ..

1... I can mute fx sends on each track in Pro Tools for automation purposes and 2... I can undo fader movements in Pro Tools (I think Ableton Live is the only other Major DAW that does this)...

For beat making, Logic Pro is my preference. The MIDI implementation and sequencing features are simply light years ahead of Pro Tools, and it doesn't crash when I pile up on the virtual insts. I can create a template with 30 of my favorite virtual instruments without a hiccup. Pro Tools can be a bit unstable with that many simultaneous virtual insts...

I think you really have to keep everything in perspective on these two DAWS . One comes with everything you need to produce music out of the box from sample's, VI's to Drums. Very solid plugins from compressors to effects and free upgrades for a price that's cheaper than a quality stomp box pedal or most plug ins for that matter. It has above average but not perfect work flow in edit and mixing, excellent composition capability. There is nothing toy like in any aspect of Logic x, it is a powerful tool for music production.

The other is a powerful DAW that has been the "industry standard" an over used but true term. It excels where it should in edit and mixing, work flow , but its still not perfect no DAW is. But Pro tools has had the most long term demanding pro user input to its builders as to issues and needs. With that in mind Pro tools should be in a state of advance that a Logic vs Pro tools thread would be laughable. But here we are ... For me at the price Logic is a no brainer add on to an all ready pro tools user, and a must buy to a new DAW buyer using a Mac.

**Logs off**

This post started back in PT 11 days to compare it to Logic, but both apps have evolved with new features and catch up on both sides. Here is my quick update when looking at PT 12.6 and what you will miss coming from Logic Pro X.

Of course, everybody should know that a comparison chart has to be applied to your personal type of work to make sense. Ten disadvantages on one side don't matter if they don't affect you compared two one disadvantage on the other side that will affect you on a daily basis.

Here are a few areas of disadvantages in Pro Tools 12.6 that will drive you nuts if you are used to that specific Logic feature/workflow:

• Clip List: This thing in PT is still a flat list with no option to organize the clips/regions in folders. Instead you have one loooooong list that is close to unmanageable.
• Key Commands: Still insane, you can't manage your own Key Commands in PT. Take it or leave it.
• Quick Swipe Comping: Logic still has the best (=fastest, most elegant) implementation and even the new update with Playlists in PT 12.6 doesn't come close to it.
• Track Stacks: Once you get used to that, you don't want to miss it
• iLok: The two-ton boat anchor is something you never can't get used to once you appreciate the ease of use of an Apple ID (on all levels).
• Surround: One of many other "artificially" declared "pro" or "advanced" features that you have to rent for $1,000/year
• Patches: Quickly save or recall Channel Strip Settings or complete Track Stacks, something you get used to very quickly.
• Apple Loops: Still frowned upon by many pro users, it is still a quick way to mock up sketches, including the Drum Designer.

Of course, there are plenty of PT features that you will still miss in Logic (Advanced Metering, Sync Point, Mixer View, etc) but that is another list for another time.

Intelligent observation that so many miss!

The things Logic lacks (and I do like Logic)....cause me to use PT daily.

TH

Logic for me… yeah I know this thread is old!

I didn't revive this thread, but it was in my threads you've participated in section as being revived, so I went through it to see what I posted.

What it was was me slagging on PT and its price and saying how I could never use it.

I quoted you instead oceantracks as this is where I am currently also.. I can't find any interface easier to work with than PT's either. I fully converted in 2017, 4 years after my post in this topic, but was dabbling by 2016.

Still using it now in 2021 although on windows now and I miss my defaulter, although there is finally some hope that a windows version may be coming.. Other than that there is no other plugin I am missing on windows. Oh, and MAC OS's easy easy easy way of making hot keys for any app.
But the performance on windows being literally twice as good makes up for it (OSX not apple hardware issue nor PT issue as it performs as well as Cubendo and Logic). And that it's missing a couple bugs that bothered me on OSX.

And finally, we have sidechain PDC.

All I really want in PT now is ARA and I am set for life. It otherwise has everything I need AND want.

PT for me! Yep, and my initial post on this topic in 2013 was reversed, but now there's no going back and very happy. I LOVE working on windows, so so nice, such great performance and I can actually game with Ultra settings on my breaks

It's funny, since then I tried (and liked) Cubase for about a year, then tried Reaper kind of on the side. Both had some great things about them. But once PT got "dark mode" and folder tracks I went back and tried it again. It was like going home again ...I ended up getting Carbon and now I'm set. The only time I go to Cubase is for intensive orchestral midi stuff with many VI parts....I like the midi editing in Cubase and the articulation maps, but I'm so lazy sometimes I even do that stuff in PT. The workflow is still so clean and direct that I don't miss the few features PT doesn't have that others do.

But now you have to deal with the plethora of Windows-only bugs.