Color has been for the most part integrated into Final Cut, but as far as I can see, is DVD Studio Pro gone?

No DVD burning atm, so if you use FCX and uninstall FC7 (as you're supposed to do) you'll either need parallel OSX installs for FC7 or need Adobe Encore or etc for DVD burning.

You don't have to uninstall FCS 3 (I think, I only installed FCP X on a new MacBook so far). Also DVD studio features have been intergrated for the most part...

I don't see them discontinuing color; it was worth more than the entire FCS suite. It may take them a while to do a 64 bit rewrite but I can not imagine them getting rid of it...

I'm scared after this release Apple calls iMovie Pro ....... uhhhh sorry FCX.
Does this mean bye bye Logic Studio welcome Garageband Pro?

I´m afraid that is very likely...Hope I´m wrong but my gut feeling says its gonna be GBP.

I used FC Pro X briefly. Really feels like iMovie Pro.
I checked how the audio syncing 'feature' works with Canon 5d Files and 4 channel BWF files recorded with SD 744t. Let me tell you: it didn't sync them properly, i had to move the clips. And the slate was plenty audible on the Canon.

I don't want to speculate about unreleased Logic X application, i'm just very dissappointed with what they have done to Final Cut. No custom resolution, no OMF/AAF, no audio tracks, has Color Correction "for dummies" , it doesnt open, nor import files from FC7 (Adobe Premiere does that via XML),

Even the people at business Apple store told one customer to take their business elsewhere. (So... I called the business Apple store this morning : Apple FCPX - Final Cut Pro X)


But you know what scares me most?
Apple KNEW all of that when they released the app. The introduction of the app does not carry any information as to how to adapt to the new "paradigm shift". It looks like it's "editing for the rest of us", that means the DSLR crowd.
No wonder really, they discountinued the xServe, Final Cut Server, now this.

If it happens for Logic, i'm not 'upgrading'.

Be careful what you wish for ....
cdlt

Is there any place to still buy the old version of FCP 7, if one wants all the pro features?

It's no longer in the Apple store but still shows up at Amazon..., if it's something you might want though, you better grab it ASAP!

Apple seems to ignore the needs of their most loyal customers who've been pro users and people who have no time for gimmicks. Apple's new image and strategy may have helped them reach their commercial pinnacle but might cost them dearly in the long term. When the whole iPad and iPhone fad is over and Jobs has left the building who's going to be interested in what they come up with?

I won't be surprised if OS X 10.7 is the last OS X version that I upgrade to. I love Logic but I'm quite tired of looking how those guys milk money off their loyal customers with loads of crap no one really needs.

I personally (after using it for the last couple of days) find FCPX really nice and a great new direction. I don't understand all the problems, if you still have FCP7 then you can still use that, but I personally can't go back I love FCP7 and I think eventually so will many of the people not happy at the moment, it's going to get way better you will see.

As for a new version of Logic

All this hysteria is just silly, and shows what rampant speculation without information does.

If you ask me what Apple is doing is trying to redo FCX's codebase to compete with Adobe Premiere. Premiere right now uses CUDA cards (or a GTX285) and the 'Mercury Engine' to allow realtime editing of Canon & AVCHD footage without any transcoding, and at 4:4:4 within the GPU itself. So it's capable of handling in a single session something that would take several hours of offline transcoding under FC7. Apple's investing in OpenCL heavily both with Lion and FCX, and so if anything they would apply some of that knowledge to Logic rather than 'iMovie'/'Garageband' Logic up more. Every time Logic has been updated the 'experienced' users fret that some critical function (environment, video features etc) will be eliminated in the move to 'apple-fy' it, and so far all they've done is redo the UI and add menus to make it more accessible to users. One might argue that it still has numerous bugs, but again comparing it to SonarX, Cubase 3/4/5/6 and Live8, this might be true for all of them for some workflows and yet others may never see those bugs. This is certainly true for Logic, and one app should not fit all sizes as we don't all have the same approach or do the same things in our music.

Stop the rampant negative speculation or be prepared to be underwhelmed imo.

When Apple first brought Final Cut to market there was a lot of boohooing over how many features it lacked compared to Avid (keep in mind that Avid isn't the *high end* anyway, it was Discreet Logic now Autodesk Flame/Flint/Inferno and of course Harry back then). It would never be this, do that etc etc. While one might argue that it offered more features in 1.0 than FCX does now, it depends on your perspective. Apple seems to think OpenCL is a priority this go-around and I can see why. Can you imagine color grading, applying crops/fades/fx and doing your edits in native formats all in realtime? Well I can understand why Apple is thinking about this, CS5 & CS5.5 are doing this already and DSLRs & panny/sony cams aren't just for youtube & corporate training videos anymore--this is a post DVX world now.

Over time FCP chopped away at Avid's userbase anyway essentially moving a good chunk of that market from the upstairs editing rooms at post studios to the realm of home offices & soho offices. So those who say FCX is intended to do the same over time for the DSLR & sub-10k video recorder market are probably correct, though it's still a 1.0 release and will need time to mature & gain features. There's already plenty of people who attest to the fact that they can't replace FC7 with it right now, but I think the hysteria over it never gaining features is a bit chicken little.

And drawing such a massive conclusion from that and applying it to Logic 1:1 is really silly imo. Others have said that Logic already went through its facelift, and while multicore usage could be improved it's still more efficient than other things on the market with its internal buffer and 'live mode' buffer arrangement. So why would they scrap everything and start from scratch here too?

I'm sorry, but to call FCP-X a '1.0' release is just a big ol' excuse. It says it right in the name...... 'X'..... that's 10..... They know what features people need in order to put this is the pipeline. There's no reason to leave out some of the most basic features when they've already had the most popular NLE around..... It's not like their new comers to the field.

You also can't compare this with the actual, original 1.0 release because it didn't have tye massive user base it now has. It would be like if Pro Tools X was released and no longer supported RTAS plugins and was only able to bounce MP3's. Not to mention storing your entire session in the application so tqking your session somewhere else was a MAJOR PIA.

They've taken out all the features that allow the user to communicate with anyone else. And this 'speculation' that all the missing features will for some reason be available ala cart or through an upgrade is simply that.... speculation. The simple fact is that they released their new version of FCP and it simply can't do what the majority of it's user base needs it to do. So either you wait.... and wait.... and wait and hope the features you need get implemented.... or you simply move on because you've got work to do.

So you're saying they should have changed the name completely? There are *still* people using versions of Final Cut pre-7 because they're not having productivity issues. A bigger issue imo will be if FC7 support was dropped and Lion/Snow updates break FC7 without a subsequent fix. Otherwise you should still be able to work and use a testing partition for FCX when you can. Updating to *anything* when its released on a billing-critical machine and then complaining that something breaks is dumb imo. Not wanting to wait a year for a usable version of launched software is more reasonable, but it remains to be seen how fast they'll move on FCX as it's JUST launched.

If you watched some of the FCX launch videos you'd have seen the bits emphasizing OpenCL support to get things realtime in native formats, as well as some of the other things that have been mentioned for upgraders over this thread and the others on GS. As is typical with Apple the rest of our info (in regards to plugin support and feature expansion etc) is coming via 3rd party devs and the typical casual discussions with trainers & other well known users. Not sure how this is different than usual other than the paucity of info because so much has changed.

I am not apologizing for Apple's typically heavyhanded moves and lack of communication with their userbase without a marketing team in between. I'm no more a fan of this as a Logic user than anyone else, but I've gotten used to it and don't find it surprising at all anymore.

I'm just saying they shouldn't be calling this a '1.0' release. All it does is give them something to fall back on when users complain about features that have been removed. And I did watch the video presentation on FCPX, and I do understand the absolute need to do away with always transcoding everything......, but really... something as necessary as basic multi-cam support, OMF, seperate audio tracks, etc.... These aren't fancy new gizmo features.... they're basic needs for most pro users.

And I get that there's still people usingnold versions and they still do the job..... just as there's still people using old PT Mix+ systems..., but those people generally stay with their older systems because they have no need to upgrade... which is usually based on their clients needs. I mean... If your client demands a 96khz mix you simply can't use a Mix system. In this case people aren't upgrading because the upgrade simply doesn't have the feature set needed to get the job done.

Hell....it's so bad that there was even a skit on the Conan Obrien show about it. Conan O'Brien Mocks Final Cut Pro X - MacRumors.com

Right but the chicken little act is going on with so many public forums/blogs (not just here) that I think it's silly. The noteworthy exceptions tbh are the places I frequent that are mostly longtime audio/video users and more used to doing things like not updating your OS & apps based on marketing fanfare. Your PT example is a good one because it's one of the more volatile platforms for such changes, and tends to be used in more places that rely on it for billing.

So joke about it & make fun of it (Conan), plan for your nearterm & longterm work platforms if need be and if you have to move to something else...do it. The rest is just herd mentality...

Just sayin

For those wondering about DVD Studio Pro, it looks like a lot of it has been integrated into the Final Cut program itself, with more options now, including Blu Ray.

Pretty much agree with that.

Sorry for derailing the thread.

Yes

If Apple called it iMovie Pro then everybody would've been extremely happy.

Give everybody that buys a Mac Mini, Macbook, iMac (cheaper models) ........ iMovie
Give everybody that buys a Mac Pro, Macbook Pro, iMac (more expensive models)......iMovie Pro

Let the professionals buy FCS4 which would include all the necessary tools needed in a professional workspace environment (that is at least compatible with the previous version!!!!!)
Price it as high as 2999,- And give this professional community monthly updates. I'm telling you no professional would bitch about the price.

GPU accelleration...it sounds like marketing kerfluffle if you don't need it. But the speed gains are real and they're available now, and Apple chose OpenCL because it's GPU/CPU independant (and may even enable AMD as an option or at least as a rumor against Intel's pricing). This is the focus imo and so if you're not interested in that, then it's easy to understand why you wouldn't get their move.

Ie, if you're still tape based or used to dealing with transcodes to Prores and FCX doesn't fill your needs, I completely understand the confusion over what they've done. However if you work with AVCHD or Mpeg4 wrapped in Quicktime and have been jealous of (or having to put up with using) Premiere CS5/5.5's realtime workflow, I think FCX makes a lot of sense. It's just a first step towards updating the Final Cut studio line for OpenCL. Even 3D apps have gone in this direction, with Quicksilver & iray offering render workflows that put the old cpu-based multithreaded renderers to shame.

Is it ready to replace FC7 for everyone else? No, I agree it's not. But Compressor with OpenCL support allows Apple to compete with Nvidia & Intel's respective GPU based (or APU based) encoders and FCX allows Apple to compete with Premiere.

The bigger thing to pay attention to imo is how little of the 'pro' features of FC7 made it into FCX so far. I don't think that means they are abandoning everything, I personally think it means that the Pro Apps department was only able to achieve so much by launch, and that's a testimony to how thinly spread they are. So concluding that they're also poised to release a fully recoded Logic as well...? Why?

Well, count me as one of the "scared shitless" group. Why? Apple has shown the cards with Final Cut Pro X and the message is "we don't care about our loyal users". You really can't trust Apple with your business if you are a professional , that is quite clear.

In my case, I did trust them when they pushed the "power trio": Logic, Apogee and Euphonix. I am pretty heavily invested in Apogee and Euphonix gear. I use the Euphonix MC Control for some Final Cut editing and as far as I have been able to discern, Eucon is out. At least there is no mention of it anywhere.

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to what will happen when they release Logic X? Here is mine: Support for iPad as a controller...and...NO more Eucon. After all, why would they support something Avid owned and compatible with Pro Tools.
So, either my gear will be expensive paper weights or I'll head over to the Avid side.

Apple really is turning into a consumer company and is turning its back on the ones who have always been loyal Apple customers: the creative crowd. First it was Shake (bought, butchered and dropped), now it's Final Cut...and soon Logic.

Sad times.

We will see. The good news is that there are some great other options out there. I was hoping to be able to stay with logic for the next 20 years, but if they screw it up more I can probably be happy with protools native.

Still running tape-based Panny DVX-100B here.

I still love the DVX 100 (and xl2), so many fond memories from when I was starting out... His point was that large sensor camcorders and video dslrs are the future. They shot an episode of house on a 5d and use it all the time on SNL. The 7d is used on white collar and covert affairs and cuts amazingly well with a red one...

Apparently, Apple has said that the missing features will be added back in with updates coming soon. And if FCP7 isn't deleted when the X version is being installed, the real issue may be that nobody was prepared for seeing the current FCPX mainly as a foundation for updates which will make it as usable as FCP7 is.

If I would have been an active FCP user, I'd just keep working in FCP7 until FCPX has the features I need.

A short message from Apple (before the release date) about FCPX not yet being able to do all the things FCP7 can do would have made a lot of sense.

I won't be surprised if OS X 10.7 is the last OS X version - full stop. I think they are going to merge OS X and iOS, leaving only iOS. Lion is already headed that direction.

I could see them doing that for version 11 or so. I hope not but damn, look at windows 8 everyone is moving toward these stupid overly simplistic and unintuitive (for serious work) interfaces. The truth is 90% people use their computers for email, Internet and photos and for those people, an iOS type interface is all they need. Though that begs the question, what do pros do? Maybe Linux will stepup, I have no idea...

I don't agree, besides added gestures (which really makes lot of sense for track pad use instead of grabbing scrollbars etc), there really only is this application launcher thing that is similar. Obviously just like the documents folder in the doc you can simply chose not to use it. Interesting new features is built in Xsan and wireless file sharing.

Exactly. And for Panny users you can choose between the GH1/GH2 and/or the AG-AF100/101 and have access to a wealth of lenses and even swap them between the AF100/101 and GH1/2 (since both are micro four thirds).

I'm using a 60D for my personal projects right now...

In any case to go back on topic, I still think Apple is responding to this change in the market with realtime editing of digital formats using OpenCL, and it's a smart move imo. The rest of FCS3's features will either wind up 'ala carte (or maybe FCS4 when FCX is really ready?) and features will be re-added. To think the same change is coming to Logic just because they can...needs more justification imo. Logic *already* sells macs based on rep alone, how is swamping the Pro Apps team with not one but two rewrites going to make that more so?