Hi there

To give my songs a special, personal touch, I want to record, edit and mix in sounds from my everyday life (traffic, water, animals, city noises, church ...). I record the songs in an acoustically processed corner with high-quality material. I have the mixing/mastering done by a sound engineer.

Now the question arises as to what equipment I need for this. And I'm looking for advice from experienced users here.

My wishes:
1. a device that I can always have with me, if I hear an interesting sound, I can record it quickly.

2. high quality, low noise, lots of detail, so that I can process high-quality material.
Here you can hear my first song. The quality should correspond to such recordings:
https://soundcloud.com/nordliecht

1st decision: A high-quality microphone for the smartphone or a field recorder?

I already have 2 CM3 microphones.

I am happy to buy high-quality material second-hand. My budget is 200-300 euros, pain threshold 500.

Thank you all very much for your time.

Stefan

Check out the Tascam Portacapture 8x. Should be around 350-380. It's 32bit\192khz, pretty low noise and good dynamic range, cant seem to find the specs on the built in mics. I have a zoom h1n i got for $99 for on the spot ideas and some field sampling and it sounds pretty good. This Tascam would be far better quality than that I would imagine.

I use a modified Tascam DR-70 4 channel or a Zoom Fn8 pro. Mics are usually transformerless AKG 460B.

Results are excellent.

Many thanks for your answers.
So the smartphone mic will probably be dropped.

Do the newer recorders, such as the Portacapture, tend to have better recording quality?

These devices still have XLR inputs. Would recording with the CM3 be better than with the internal mics?

Is there a good second-hand offer for a Zoom Hn4 Pro, maybe a good option?


"I use a modified Tascam DR-70 4 channel or a Zoom Fn8 pro. Mics are usually transformerless AKG 460B.

Results are excellent."
These are too big for me.

Master nature recordist Bernie Krause's mic setup for many years has been MS with Sennheisers, but that may be more than you're willing to spend on mics.
https://www.wildsanctuary.com/

One of the Audio Technica stereo mics might be considered.
https://www.audio-technica.com/en-us...ed/type/stereo

There are many, many options these days for high quality very portable digital recorders. For simplicity and compactness, you'll want one with built-in mic pres.

Thx! And they use the mics with a normal fieldrecorder?
The advantage of these stereomics: they are easier to handle than 2 cm3!

https://www.wildsanctuary.com/
This sounds really great!!

Hi all

I have done my research and have currently arrived at the Zoom F3. Why? The sound quality is better than the usual Zoom/Tascam recorders. It doesn't have its own microphone and is a lot handier. But in my experience, the intention to always have it with you in everyday life rarely results in a recording. Because there simply isn't enough time. So I prefer to take my time and record in higher quality.

I came across an offer for a second-hand Sound Devices 702t High-Res Compact. It would be a bit more expensive, bigger and more complicated. But the sound is supposed to be a dream! Can anyone say anything about it?

As for the microphone, I ended up with a second-hand Audio-Technica AT8022, a stereo microphone that makes very good recordings.
I would exceed my pain threshold with it, but it's worth it to me if I can work with it for a long time and get good results.
I will probably look around for a shotgun microphone at a later date.

Which still makes me hesitate: The microphone only goes up to 15,000 Hz. I've read that you can record higher frequencies with microphones (e.g. in 96 kHz) and then pitch them down. That would make for very interesting recordings.
Can anyone say anything about this?

Thank you!
Stefan

I thought you had the right idea originally - an easily carriable setup that you could use at a moments notice. There is nothing wrong with using your smartphone as the recorder. Combined with a stereo USB mic like the shure mv88, you can start learning the craft, and tweak your setup if needed from there.

Thank you very much.
This is only for iPhones? I have a Motorola...
Yes, that was my original idea.
But from my experience with my home studio, I know that I'm not satisfied that quickly. I tried out mics/preamps again and again over the years until I was happy. And it was not the cheapest... And the better the recording, the easier it is to edit...
But there are so many options that it's really difficult to decide.
I still have an old Zoom H1, but I don't know if it can keep up with a HandyMic.

What I don't like about the smartphone is the handling of files.

And with the Zoom H3 I would still have the option of attaching my cm3 and recording something specifically.

maybe better I could try out the possibilities...
have a good Day!

I don't know why you would bother with something else than Tascam Portacapture x6 ( or x8 - but it's bigger, too big maybe for "point and shoot") for your need.

You can use it as it is to record high quality ambient sound or also use external mics. Preamps seem pretty clean on paper.

I wouldn't use CM3s (that I own and love for music) for the field recordings - they are tiny bit too noisy for soft sounds and too prone to wind and handling noise...

If you want a practical set-up for collecting sounds - just use x6 as it is... I would be buying this if I were buying today for the similar purpose as yours.

I had Zoom H4n PRO (usable, decent) and SD Mixpre3 (using it with MKH40/30 MS rig - "Hollywood grade" ambient fx sound ).

If buying external mics today for the use you describe - I'd probably get something from Rycote (and their blimp).

A fellow Gearspace member made some excellent tests:

https://drbadphil.com/rycotes-new-mi...-supercardioid

and omni: https://drbadphil.com/rycotes-new-mics-part-2-omni

And a comparison to what you supposedly "chose": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CuyofnS2iY

F3 is cool, but if you need something practical that already has the mics - I'd get Tascam:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews...ortacapture-x6

(and no, Tascam didn't pay me )

Yeah, I checked those out too and I keep circling back on the x6 myself. I am definitely getting one of those once I upgrade my current one (because I don't have XLRs in mine). I have a rode NT4 I would like to try out with field recording. The great thing on the Rode is it has a 9v battery hookup to power it which takes a little juice off the recorder itself.

I'm a big and very longtime fan and user of SD 702/744 recorders, but using them today has a few disadvantages vs newer machines. For one, they are pretty heavy for their size (very solid metal construction), and for another service on them from SD is quite expensive, with a tune up costing more than the used price of the machine. If you find one for sale that is in great shape--wonderful. But if it needs buttons, connectors, an internal drive, a display or LEDs you could be in for a serious expense. I love the sound of mine, but am realistic about how much longer I'll get to use them.

Thank you for your reply.

Portacapture x6 : Are more expensive than the F3 and I can't find an exact comparison of the preamps. They seem to be on a similar level. F3 is smaller, battery lasts longer.

The X6 has many effects and things. But I just want clean recordings that are as good as possible. Press the button and record without any major adjustments. I then do the editing in Cubase.

The only advantage I see are the built-in mics if I were to record without an external microphone.

Since the recordings sound better with a good external microphone, I tend to go in that direction.

That's the only point I'm still thinking about and that would speak in favour of the X6. That I could also use it without external mics....

Can you say something about the difference in quality between recording with the X6's internal mics and an external stereo mic, e.g. a Rode NT4 or the AT8022?

Thanks also for the tip about the CM3. The Rycote look interesting. But they are new and above my budget. I can't find them second-hand as they are rather rare in Switzerland. But I'll keep my eyes open...

Now I'm at this stage:

Zoom F3 variant:
- Zoom F3 (new): 250 Euro
- Rode NT4 Set (used): 300 Euro -> 550 Euro
or
- Zoom F3 (new): 250 Euro
- Audio-Technica AT8022 (used): 330 Eruo -> 580 Euro

Variant X6 (new): 320 Euro
- Rode NT4 Set (used): 300 Euro -> 620 Euro
or with:
- Audio-Technica AT8022 330 Eruo -> 650 Euro

Or I just start with the X6 with internal mics... -> 330 Euro

Then we would have a very similar setting :-)
What would you like to record?

Many thanks for this tip! I'll be careful with that. I need a simple, reliable and easy-to-use tool that just does what it has to do :-)

Literally anything that comes to mind. Train, rocks slamming on the ground, metal clanging, anything. I want to collect a bunch of sounds then slice them up and create a library. Its so much more liberating that trying to find samples online.

You have to decide what is your primary goal and budget.

All the external mic options are beyond your "pain" treshold.

From experience I know I recorded most "found" sounds with my old Zoom H4 and later H4n and H4n pro.

Even going on vacation you throw something like that in your backpack and it doesn't cost you more space than a "Dune" or "Lord of The Rings" paperback, hehe... Even a used H4n pro would be perfectly fine for your described need.

I bet you won't bring your big stereo mics, blips and whatnot with you anywhere, unless you planned a sound capturing session - which is way more rare then going around, hearing something and grabbing the recorder.

When I had Mixpre3 and used the MKHs in MS in the Rode Blimp and boom, I only used that for specific sessions and projects, never just took this with me - and I didn't record much interesting random sounds... just the planned stuff... which is fine - but a different story altogether.

Even with the lowly first generation H4 I managed to capture some interesting sounds and sound stories that I could use in some of my projects or uploaded to Freesound - where I also got many sounds from others - a great sound exchanging project - check it out: https://freesound.org/

I did some radio drama in the past and this was a great resource. You can also collaborate, ask for specific sounds you can't capture in your environment, etc.

Anyway - F3 is a nice option, but I wouldn't buy any of the big bulky stereo mics you mentioned.
I am also not a fan of XY stereo - particularly not for ambient sounds capture - you can put mics on x6 into AB position - and I would also use some separate external mic that can be configured either in MS or spaced AB or at least ORTF.

I don't know how those you mentioned compare, but from what I heard x6 internal mics are pretty decent for the cause.

If going Zoom F3 route - the practical version would be having some binaural mics or something like DPA 4060 (again over your budget) that you can attach to a headband or something - and have a nice portable solution.

In windless situations and with a stand, etc. you can also use your CM3s... When not moving around they would work outdoors in a nice blimp, protected with deadcat and on a shock-mount on a stand. But such contraption becomes pretty bulky and expensive, too: https://www.thomannmusic.com/rycote_...tf_kit_mzl.htm


Also don't underestimate the cumbersomeness of carrying all the stuff, including the cables with you - putting it all together - the blimp, dead cat when needed, stand when needed, cabling...

Of course you can have it all prepared when you go for a sound capturing walk or session - a prearranged mic setup in a blimp on a short boom pole, already wired to F3 in the soundbag... but... compare that to having a single recorder of pretty decent quality, ready to shoot, even when you go on random walks, meetings, school, job, vacations, etc.

I also like the simplicity - and the F3 is perfect for "just pressing the record" scenario - but for you as a singer-songwriter - I can imagine situations that even overdubbing on x6 could be useful - imagine being able to record in different locations easily - just bring Tascam x6 and your CM3s with you and play, sing in a church, in the barn, in the mountain gorges, meadows or have a song prepared and go to a collaborating musician and record them in their environment - some harp player in some theatre or on her terrace, trumpet player in the mountains, or maybe some alp horns, hehe... You know - all that is possible then, too...

This thread actually made me want to get one to rekindle my field recording hobby and to be able to go to a local church that allows me to record there more easily for some sessions - to record more fx, flutes and solo percussion there, without the need to carry my whole laptop-preamps setup - just x6, two omni mics on a stereo bar and a stand.

Then another budget option - for external mics - there are specialized field recording mics that are much less expensive, but usable for this - maybe not so linear and not such a musical response, but less noise and suitable for outdoors recordings... things like Clippy EM272... https://micbooster.com/clippy-and-pl...icrophone.html

Then this:

https://immersivesoundscapes.com/

Another solution from this "company" (a guy basically) to use with Zoom F3 among others: https://immersivesoundscapes.com/ear...av2-f3-mixpre/

Do read the "Immersivesoundcapes" link - a lot of info for your cause there.

Whatever you choose - don't forget to add the (cost of) wind protection - without it all mics and recorders are useless outdoors most of the time...

Another useful read:

https://www.creativefieldrecording.c...it-comparison/

My choice would still be the Tascam x6 - because why not the latest and hippest (if budget is really tight I have nothing bad to say about the H4n (PRO) - I don't know if H4 essential is the same or better - I don't follow all that anymore... but Tascam x6 caught my attention. And I would later add some Rycote mics (because I feel those mics are good both for music and field recording) - if I didn't have what I need already.

Now your thread made me think of getting one myself, damn! 😀 Considering Tascam X6 or FR-AV2 (another fine option) to start field recording again - the latter being perhaps a pinch nicer for the use with the external mics I already have and dust off that Rode blimp and boom, but x6 is also useful for the "point and shoot"... 😀

Yes, I would also like to record the sounds myself. Water, pedestrians in the city, birds, the world around me. And then use them for my songs. That's much more personal. I'm curious to see how it all sounds :-)

@ The Listener
Wow, thanks for your detailed thread and the interesting links...!
I needed some time to respond :-)

I am aware of that. But if I can really use the sounds recorded with the X6, it maybe would be the best solution for me.

I think I have some places I want to record specifically (A lock in the city, the pedestrian passage, the birds from my window...). I could imagine preparing this well and recording it to a high quality with a little more effort.

What I want to know is whether it would be worth buying a Rode NT4, for example, for planned recordings or recording days? Or only from a higher budget? i like the idea of only having ONE microphone with me

Is there even a stereo microphone (a single one) that brings a noticeable improvement (less noise, more detail) (that can be configured in either MS or AB or at least ORTF)?

To record my music (guitar, vocals) I'm in my recording room. There I have my good material (2x Gefell M930 microphone via an ADT TM101 into the Babyface Pro. I have processed it acoustically. Thats all i need. If I want more, I'll go to a studio. I'm not going to do that outside.

Clippy EM272 : These are better then the internal mics of the X6?

the more I deal with it, the bigger and more fascinating a world opens up :-)

First and foremost, I want to work on my songs and I need the recordings for that. I already have so many ideas and would love to get started right away :-)

But I think I'll start with an X6 and then gradually build up with high-quality microphones. I'll keep an eye on the second-hand market...

I have also seen the fr-av2. Another player :-). But without internal mics, so rather as a more up-to-date alternative to the F3. But in the end, there will always be a new, better device. The important thing is that you can start working :-)

This is what I found:

If you don't need timecode or combo jack inputs, I'd say the Zoom F3 is still a great choice, cheaper, smaller, longer battery, yes the Tascam FR-AV2 has slightly cleaner preamps and the remote control via the additional Bluetooth module is cool, but at this general level of quality, no one will notice a difference in the preamps. The timecode option on the Tascam is very welcome though.
https://www.reddit.com/r/fieldrecord...parison/?tl=de

I can't wait to see what you get :-)

My reasoning would be - if I can milk the last bit of quality and having the latest offering for not much $$ difference - I would go with Tascam FR-AV2. BUT - if you can find a really good deal on used Zoom F3 - I would go with this one in your case. (if you decide on the recorder without mics option)

For the planned sessions you can use your Beyerdynamic mics.

I guess you already have some suspensions and a stereo bar? If not - you would need two Rycote lyres for the Beyers, then this wind protection would be good - and probably the cheapest solution - cheaper than some ORTF blimp: https://rycote.com/microphone-windsh...bg-windshield/ complete with windjammer. And a stereo bar. And a practical stand.

And you don't need to buy any additional mic. (for the planned sessions)

N4 is probably OK, but you're stuck with XY, might be nice and practical, but rather expensive for what it is and I honestly don't think a much bigger improvement over internal mics on those new devices...

For the "on the go" to use with those "micless" recorders - something like those small condenser mics like Clippy EM272 and you will have a really practical portable solution that you can carry everywhere and when you do the planned session - you have a nice recorder, too.
And you can still get NT4 later if that's an itch.

Now... the x6 - you have practically the same quality preamps as on those two, but already integrated mics, that are completely adequate for sound hunting... the little omnis, like the Clippys or Earsight (or DPA4060 ) are not to be "better", but to get a different picture then from the XY or AB cardioids on the recorder.

Informative video about Zoom and Tascam:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w433J-C97Ec

And a video of the use of Clippy mic (or any other of that kind) - but you can also "wear" those mics on a headband or something and even walk around or stand as a "human stand":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJe_nJHzGXw

For me - I still have Rode Blimp and Sennheiser MKH20, 40 and 30s so I can do "planned" field recordings of the highest quality if needed. I would probably get x6, because I would use it with its internal mics for quick shots and carrying around on vacations, etc., like I used to, but for the planned sessions I know I have clean enough preamps to use with my fancy mics...

So, if I decide - I will go with X6 - or if some projects come along as expected I might even get the Sonosax M2D2 and use a phone to record in absolute highest quality - and get a pair of DPA4060 for sound hunting walks. (but that is overkill and only IF some fancy projects will happen, if not - Tascam x6 it is). Also - x6 and FR-AV2 offer MS decoding - which is very useful if you want to monitor MS in real time... (but not needed for you at this stage).

Now, if x6 would have digital in - SPDIF or AES as the old MR100 mk3 had - it would be perfect...

Edit: This guy sold me on FR-AV2:
https://youtu.be/aHPAmtBhWjo?si=rlpdRn_5tl2jJEar

Also bare in mind Zoom F3 has no gain setting - I am too used to set gain, even if it is 32 bit floating...

Tascam probably sounds even better an is overall a better beast...

I have some cheap, but useful Indian lavalier omni mics that I can connect to the mini jacks on it, too, for portable sound hunts and might get "The one" from Earsight, later for that; for serious sound collecting I will use my pro rig.

Sooo, my final verdict, after all the braistorming, also for your initial question: Tascam FR-AV2 plus this:
https://immersivesoundscapes.com/ear...av2-f3-mixpre/

It’s almost an unobtainium, but the Sennheiser/Apogee Ambeo Headset is perhaps the most portable possibility.
If you have an iPhone.
With a lightning interface.

https://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-AM.../dp/B0744PC5J8

I have the X6 in my shopping basket :-) I'm still waiting for the answer as to whether the WS-11 windscreen also fits the X6 (it fits the X8).
I don't have any Beyerdynamic microphones.

They are Audio Line CM3 microphones (popularly known as Neumann for arms). They are really small, what i like:
https://www.lineaudio.se/CM3.html

I have this small stereo bar for them:
https://www.thomannmusic.ch/k+m_235-50.htm
It already has a simple windscreen with it (a kind of foam cover)

Otherwise the one you mentioned:
https://shop.visuals.ch/de/windschir...indshield.html

I don't really believe that an NT4 or an AT8025 don't make noticeably better recordings than the internal ones of the X6, as they cost almost twice as much as the whole device when new. But I can certainly borrow one of these from a friend, he's a film maker, he probably has one of these. If it really grabs me, it works with the integration into the songs and it appeals to me better quality, I will upgrade :-)

I'll narrow down the selection for myself :-) There are lots of great devices. I hope you find the right one! all have their special features, which can be more important than others
They all make great recordings and even more important is how you position the microphones (my sound engineer always says :-) )
Why don't you share it and your experiences :-)

PS: I just had the idea of a swarm of bees, or bees in a beehive, a friend of mine is a beekeeper... that must be a really intense recording :-)

Good luck, you have much info already!

Hunting sounds is the art of listening - not so much mic positions as in music recording, than finding the right spot, right position in the ambience... a story in sound (to me).

Try the mics and hear. Not all can be judged by € as you know with CM3s... (they CAN be used for this, but are rather "delicate" in my experience, regarding handling noise and wind...)

Also catching specific sounds with contact mics is interesting.

I used your thread for brainstorming and decided on Tascam FR-AV2 and probably Clippy EM272 (or maybe Earsight, but I think I'l choose the simple EM272), I will also use the MKH20/30 MS rig.

Bees are a cool project... By coincidence, I did an album incorporating insect sounds, also bees, but unfortunately was not able to do field recordings in time (end of summer, COVID restrictions, no travel, so I bought high quality sound packs from two renowned recordists, Craig Carter and David Kamp, and only cicadas I recorded earlier were mine.

This: https://hemi-sync.com/product/enter-...YWyAo4K6OeAVim

And some info on Kamp's bee recordings:

https://tmbroadcast.com/index.php/da...a-microphones/

Enjoy your journey!

yes, it is easier to decide in favour of something in an exchange... I like reading along :-)

I haven't bought the X6 yet, but every time I get more information, I tend to go for a different device. it takes some patience
The FR-AV2 looks great too! It can also record up to 192kHz. The guy in the video just plugs in two of the mics to use it as a normal handheld recorder:
https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigmicxy/
Video: ca. 8.12min
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bqYGtRGM_0

So I would have an always ready handheld recorder in the highest quality in my budget and could start with the CM3 and try out a stereo mic or a shotgun.

I have now ordered the X6!

Together with an SanDisk microSDXC High Endurance 128 GB Card and a Tascam Ws-11 Windscreen and Panasonic eneloop pro 4 Stk., AA, 2500 mAh Akku.

I can hardly wait to test it.
The deciding factor was that I can always have it with me without external microphones. And the fact that all preamps in this price range are already of a very high, almost indistinguishable quality. I've often read that it's better to invest in good mics.
In a second step, I will then set up my CM3 for recording with the aforementioned windscreen and the stands/brackets. I'm very curious about the differences.
Thank you all for your tips and experience reports!
Stefan

I think you made a smart choice and will start recording immediately and everywhere, catching interesting sounds in completely adequate quality.

Also the budget doesn't suffer and it has clean enough preamps to use with mics like CM3, etc.

Good choice.

---------------------------

BTW - If you will record a lot and wish to share some sounds - I can really highly recommend Freesound:
https://freesound.org/

Also some professionals use it - they share some and offer more to buy if somebody needs more quality and specific stuff.

But mostly it's a community "creative commons" thing...

If nothing - there's satisfaction seeing people using your sounds for anything from some dance tracks, indie and student film making, animated movies, etc. and getting nice and funny comments (like for example, for my most downloaded sound of "dry castanets"): "I love you i love you i love you."
Obivously it was very helpful for someone seeking a specific sound fx. People used it as percussion samples (in "chillstep" as someone wrote), but mostly for animation - bug walks, teeth rattling and stuff... It's fun, if no money.

Sometimes also collaborations happen, people seeking you out to collaborate on some project - I did with a few for animated cartoons and then recorded specific fx for them.

Congrats on your purchase. I think you'll want to use the CM3s mainly indoors until you can get good wind protection for them. They are extremely susceptible to wind noise.

Based on another recommendation on this forum, I got a pair of the cheap Movo WST windscreens for my CM3s (see link below). They definitely help in light wind but if the winds are strong you'll need something better.

https://www.movophoto.com/en-ca/prod...lon-windscreen

The X6 arrived today! A great piece of technology :-)I haven't had time to test it extensively yet, but the first impression is great. It's also fun to hold it in your hands and browse through the menus. I'm very excited.

One more question about the tripods. Are they specially designed or can you use a normal camera tripod?

Thanks also for the tip from Freesound. I can well imagine uploading some recordings somewhere. They're no good if they gather dust on the hard drive.