Hi everyone,

I'm gonna be recording a series of duos Piano + guitar(or)drums(or)sax(or)trumpet. I was thinking about mic'ing the piano with a stereo pair of AKG C414 XL II in spaced pair config coming in from the curve area of the piano, about a foot above the string. Each night both performers should be together on stage, not too far from each others and I was wondering what polar pattern, distance from the strings would be ideal for the C414 XL II ?
Omni in that case would bring too much bleed from the other instrument, would wide cardio be ok ? Please share your thoughts with me, many thanks in advance !

to minimize cymbals/drums getting into the piano mics, i suggest using the 414s in cardioid (for maximum rear attenuation), pointing away from the drums and going very close.


[when using cardioids, i mostly add a third mic (in wide cardioid or omni and with a steep lpf) for picking up the lf range - if not using a yamahiko pickup (or two) in the first place...]

@ ddy —

I kinda like my AKG C414 XL II pair on either a piano or a drum kit; but not too close—because, well, they are pretty brilliant (perhaps even, poke-your-eyes-out sharp). I realize this isn’t what the op was asking.

But I suppose I might worry a bit about using them “very close” with most any large instrument that forcefully hits their HF bump? Even leveraging EQ. You would have more expertise than me to deal with it.

I know you don’t like Figure 8 much; but—to get the distance and the isolation—I thought that might be a safe place to go *IF* using an AKG C414 XL II pair on either piano or drums and needing isolation? . . .depending on the room (e.g., assuming I could point the rear off into some low reflective space). And fill in the bass with something else, if need be.

Maybe that gets too messy vs close + EQ? But, for me, there’s also a trade off of sorts with the patterns on this model. Rejection seems generally more efficient with its cardioid vs figure 8. But, at the same time, also (I think, far) less disciplined. Still a very useful studio mic with all of its features, I believe.


At least, that’s how they go into my ears.

Ray H.

in a live setting, i find fig8's only useful say on a horn section so the 'nulls' (not really...) face each other - still, i often prefer using the cardioid or hypercardioid pattern as i'm way more interested in what happens in front of the mics than in the rear.

ime going close cardioids will lead to a noticeable proximity effect which compensates for the slightly worse lf pickup typical of all direction patterns and it may even mask the xl II's hf bump to some extent. besides, in a live setting and/or in large rooms, there's mostly significant hf attenuation over distance so the mic's hf bump may in fact be beneficial.

i haven't used the xl II's in a while (except on cymbals); maybe i'll soon rent a pair just for the fun of it (and to put them up against the b-uls' and oc-818's if i have a minute).

in any case, i'd be more concerned about the drums'/cymbals' proximity to the grand piano (with the lid on the full stick?) and the different soundstages between the piano/sax duo and piano/drum duo than the mics but maybe using gobos/absorbers/towels etc. can migigate some issues...

One thing to consider is the piano itself and which direction the lid is - if you’re looking for maximum isolation on a live stage, point the lid in the opposite direction from the other instruments and use two mic’s, spaced pair in cardioid, following the 3 to 1 rule (because it’s simple and it works) - I’ve done many recordings with C414 XL’s live in the studio and find approximately 10 inches above the treble and bass strings (i like to mic using the center bridge as a divider) and 30 inches apart will give you a good starting point.

A more “maximum isolation” technique would be to use two SDC’s in xy, close to the bridge inside the piano with the piano covered and at quarter stick.

Of course, there are many different ways to mic a piano and I’ve done just about all of them, but on stage, with other instruments, especially those with sharp transients and a lot of volume (drums and trumpet) with the mic’s you’ve specified, you might try my recommendation as a starting point - it’s simple, effective and it works.